William Rodriguez - Fraud?
- Thread starter pk
- Start date
free spirit
more tea vicar?
can't believe nobodies picked Jazz up on this bit, but are you actually contending that a plane flying into a building not only creates no spike, but doesn't even create a little blip just because the building happens to be reet tall like.Jazzz said:
You do understand that tall buildings are actually connected into the ground by extremely deep foundations not hung from the sky don't you?
You really ought to stop trying to pick holes in the official story when IMO you'd struggle to pick holes in a paper napkin
free spirit
more tea vicar?
not really, but when I see an open goal it's just human nature to tap it inpk said:
Jazzz - your theory of controlled demolition is utter bullshit, not a single thing you've posted up in support of it stands up to any sort of rational investigation, and your notion that the explosives were planted in the bassement and went off before the plane hits is about as fucking ridiculous as they come.
The towers began collapsing from the floors the planes hit at, I know you've watched this process on film lots of times, so please please stop and think for at least half a second before you post up your next / latest recycled bullshit theory - even you can surely see that it's way more likely that a collapse starting at a point recently hit by jet planes laden with fuel is likely to be caused by a combination of the impact of the planes and resulting fires rather than an explosion fuck knows how many floors below and more than an hour earlier.
your inability to critically analyse anything you post here prior to posting it is fucking frustrating to saythe least.
have you read that report on the controlled demolition yet, do you now accept the theory is bullshit, and if not why not?
axon said:Yes, there is a discrepancy between their statement and their data.
So where did they get the 08:46:26 (EDT) time from if the data shows something different.
Possible ideas,
1) Some mistake in transcribing times.
2) Some back analysis that arrives at the figure from the data.
3) It's possible that they got the time not from their data but from reports of the impact time (e.g. TV). They do say this later, "We understand from news reports, that the first impact (0846 EDT)".
4) The seismic data they show is faked/edited and they put the true time value of the seismic event along side, thus proving secret explosives, pod missiles, fake planes, holograms etc etc etc
1) Impossible. These guys have to be top scientists in their field. And they'll have checked something like that thoroughly.
3) Nope. This is an observatory of scientific record. They have to know what time it is.
4) I think we can agree that this is impossible.
So we are left with (2).
Now do you think that it is somehow possible that they may have wished to account for the time it would take sound waves to propagate through 30kms or so of Manhattan bedrock?
free spirit
more tea vicar?
fuck knows why I'm bothering, but I'd just like to put this explosion in the basement bollocks to bed once and for all
so Rodriguez states either
now take a look at the footage of the planes impact and if you look closely you'll see 2 seperate incidents... firstly at around 12 seconds (on that clip) the plane hits the building, then at around 16 seconds a fireball erupts presumably as the fueltank explodes.
so there's your 2 seperate incidents seconds apart just as Rodriguez states.
You'll note that nowhere does Rodriguez say anything about there being a 3rd explosion, therefore from his own evidence combined with the evidence of the film of the impact it's clear that there can't have been an additional explosion in the basement.
Why does rodriguez think there was an explosion in the basement? Well I guess that when you're in the basement of a huge steel framed skyscraper that's hit by a plane it'd be kinda difficult to actually tell where the source of the impact was coming from as that force would reverberate through the steel frame of the building, and the sound would be pretty much all around you.
are we done with this yet Jazzz?
so Rodriguez states either
or
but either way he heard / felt 2 explosions / impacts.
now take a look at the footage of the planes impact and if you look closely you'll see 2 seperate incidents... firstly at around 12 seconds (on that clip) the plane hits the building, then at around 16 seconds a fireball erupts presumably as the fueltank explodes.
so there's your 2 seperate incidents seconds apart just as Rodriguez states.
You'll note that nowhere does Rodriguez say anything about there being a 3rd explosion, therefore from his own evidence combined with the evidence of the film of the impact it's clear that there can't have been an additional explosion in the basement.
Why does rodriguez think there was an explosion in the basement? Well I guess that when you're in the basement of a huge steel framed skyscraper that's hit by a plane it'd be kinda difficult to actually tell where the source of the impact was coming from as that force would reverberate through the steel frame of the building, and the sound would be pretty much all around you.
are we done with this yet Jazzz?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Another interesting point is the fact that the tower (I forget which one) actually toppled at the top, at an angle, rather than straight down, and that also watching the towers fall on a good quality image (not one found at rense or any other bullshit anti-semitic website) will indicate clearly the outer walls falling away from the central core as they fall.
Not things that would happen in a controlled demolition.
The overwhelming thing about conspiraloons is this - they want 9/11 to have been a government conspiracy rather than a terrorist attack.
I think it's a mixture of personality defects - the need to feel important, to play the role of Nancy Drew, and like a child screaming at a funeral for maximum shock value, the casual marginalisation of the grief suffered by victims is testament to their callous selfish attitude.
Compare the treatment meted out to 7/7 survivors, namely BK, by these fucking loons - compare that to Jazzz's shock reaction at my attacking Rodriguez for being a fraud.
"How dare you - he was there! You're muckraking!"
Yes, well BK was there, on 7/7, that doesn't stop your fucking coward mates phoning her family and yelling abuse, or otherwise harrassing her, calling her a liar.
Anyway - I maintain...
Not things that would happen in a controlled demolition.
The overwhelming thing about conspiraloons is this - they want 9/11 to have been a government conspiracy rather than a terrorist attack.
I think it's a mixture of personality defects - the need to feel important, to play the role of Nancy Drew, and like a child screaming at a funeral for maximum shock value, the casual marginalisation of the grief suffered by victims is testament to their callous selfish attitude.
Compare the treatment meted out to 7/7 survivors, namely BK, by these fucking loons - compare that to Jazzz's shock reaction at my attacking Rodriguez for being a fraud.
"How dare you - he was there! You're muckraking!"
Yes, well BK was there, on 7/7, that doesn't stop your fucking coward mates phoning her family and yelling abuse, or otherwise harrassing her, calling her a liar.
Anyway - I maintain...
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I can see where you're coming from PK, but it's also quite possible that he's actually managed to convince himself based on his first hand experience that what he felt had to be an explosion below him.
Problem is that being as he'd never experienced a plane impact on the towers from the basement before he'd got nothing to go on as to what that would feel like, and reasoned that the guy coming out of th lifts couldn't have been burnt from a plane crashing 30+ stories above, therefore it must have been due to an explosion a couple of stories below.
Problem is that he's not an expert on the accoustic response of steel framed buildings to aircraft impact, or the flow of superheated air and fire down lift shafts when a virtually full tank of fuel explodes in or near one (or burning fuel falling down the shaft etc).
So maybe he's a fraud cashing in on the CTers, more likely IMO he's genuinely convinced himself that what he says is what happened, doesn't mean he's right though... and being surrounded by CTers hanging on your every word and reinforcing your belief ain't gonna help.
eta either way if he is making a decent living from speaking to CTers and getting to travel the world doing it, it's hardly a motivation for him to re-evaluate his position and go back to doing 9-5 as a caretaker (personally I doubt he'll be making that much from it, but I might be wrong)
Problem is that being as he'd never experienced a plane impact on the towers from the basement before he'd got nothing to go on as to what that would feel like, and reasoned that the guy coming out of th lifts couldn't have been burnt from a plane crashing 30+ stories above, therefore it must have been due to an explosion a couple of stories below.
Problem is that he's not an expert on the accoustic response of steel framed buildings to aircraft impact, or the flow of superheated air and fire down lift shafts when a virtually full tank of fuel explodes in or near one (or burning fuel falling down the shaft etc).
So maybe he's a fraud cashing in on the CTers, more likely IMO he's genuinely convinced himself that what he says is what happened, doesn't mean he's right though... and being surrounded by CTers hanging on your every word and reinforcing your belief ain't gonna help.
eta either way if he is making a decent living from speaking to CTers and getting to travel the world doing it, it's hardly a motivation for him to re-evaluate his position and go back to doing 9-5 as a caretaker (personally I doubt he'll be making that much from it, but I might be wrong)
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
pk said:
Does Jazzz offer any evidence to support this claim. Reminds me of Atillas claim the police put money in his/her account.
I'm now offering a cash bounty of a photo of Jazzz with his puppet...*
*money offered is monopoly money and cannot be redemed for goods or services outside of monopoly.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I don't know about skyscraper construction - nor do I pretend to (unlike the cunts who go on about "squibs" with an air of authority, LOL!) but I am almost certain that factored in to the design of the WTC towers (and all hi-rise structures) is the ability to sway in high winds.
A sudden impact would have sent a whiplash of energy down the steel core to the basement, and this would have possibly happened faster than the speed of sound that carried the fuel ignition after the initial impact, explaining Rodriguez' second "explosion" after hearing "furniture moving".
A sudden impact would have sent a whiplash of energy down the steel core to the basement, and this would have possibly happened faster than the speed of sound that carried the fuel ignition after the initial impact, explaining Rodriguez' second "explosion" after hearing "furniture moving".
free spirit
more tea vicar?
hmm don't know about the different speeds as such, but I guess the vibration of the impact would travel direct down the steel frame, where as the sound of the explosion would have had to echo down the lift shaft (or pass through 30 odd floors of the building)... either way the 2 things were 3-4 seconds apart which is easily enough time to go 'what the fuck was that' feel the floor vibrating, hear a deep rumbling and notice the furniture shaking etc.
btw has anyone ever been in a big house where someones banging on the radiator somewhere? difficult to tell if the person doing the banging's above or below you init as the sounds coming from the radiator nearest you.
btw has anyone ever been in a big house where someones banging on the radiator somewhere? difficult to tell if the person doing the banging's above or below you init as the sounds coming from the radiator nearest you.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I don't know, I guess that's one for the experts, but I would have thought the opposing force provided by the structure in reaction to the plane strike would almost certainly have reverberated the steel core and caused the most damage where said core reaches ground, as opposed to elsewhere.
Then the fuel igniting a second or so later, then add to that the time taken for sound to travel down to ground level, adequately explains the two seperate noises heard by Rodriguez in his initial statement to CNN.
Quite why he failed to mention the explosives he is now convinced he heard is odd though...
Then the fuel igniting a second or so later, then add to that the time taken for sound to travel down to ground level, adequately explains the two seperate noises heard by Rodriguez in his initial statement to CNN.
Quite why he failed to mention the explosives he is now convinced he heard is odd though...
free spirit
more tea vicar?
well I reckon being as I've no evidence to the contrary I'm going to just go with my gut feeling that he probably believes what he's saying (at some level), don't mean he's right though, just that he put 2 and 2 together and got 5 when he went back over it in his head... wouldn't be surprised if someone hadn't helped put the idea in his head mind... are you sure it couldn't have been an explosion you heard from underground... erm well it could have been...etc
eta damn is that the time, I blame felafan and his read the 911 timeline trick - just lost an hour grrrr
eta damn is that the time, I blame felafan and his read the 911 timeline trick - just lost an hour grrrr
Quite possibly not ...free spirit said:
icklefairy
New Member
I went to see Rodriguez and have to say he comes across as being sincere.
I dont agree with most of what he says but he genuinely does seem to believe it himself.
Not necessarily a fraud, just misguided maybe??
I dont agree with most of what he says but he genuinely does seem to believe it himself.
Not necessarily a fraud, just misguided maybe??
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Jazzz said:Oh I see it took just ONE very simple question repeated ONCE at you to start frothing at the mouth with outrageous personal attacks!
What link are you on about?
The one originally posted by MikeMCC on 9/11 Media Happenings, and that Mike, Crispy, myself and at least two others have asked you to comment on.
This report.
It's written by a group called Protec:
Protec website said:
They also run the website www.implosionworld.com ...the long and short is that they are CD experts, many of whom were involved directly in the 9/11 clean up...anyway, on the seismology...basically, along with many other construction commpanies, Protec has seismographs set up on 9/11 to measure vibration issues for various construction projects around New York and they have multiple confirmations that there weren't the type of patterns you would see consistent with explosives powerful enough to defeat steel beams.
The whole paper is about as strong a refutation of CD as you're likely to find - compiled by demolition experts, done for no one's business but their own etc. I'd suggest that fela and Jazz both read it and comment further.
Jazzz said:
Well, as I've found out the time of impact was not known by the earthquake bods, it was inferred from oscillatory surface wave arrivals. Now, on with the logic....
The time they calculated is 14 seconds or so earlier than the radar data for the impact. Why is this (multiple choice coming up!)?
1) The calculation is not 100% accurate. I do not know the accuracy of predicting tremor epicentres. To me 14 seconds sounds pretty close, given that seismic waves come in all sorts of planes and their velocities are altered by differing compositions of rock etc.
2) The seismic event recorded is not that of the impact, but of something else, maybe a bomb! Now, for this to work you need 2 things. First, an explanation of why an aircraft slamming into the tower and the subsequent shaking was not detected on seismic records. And secondly, the bomb must have been massive. And when I say massive I mean MASSIVE. The 1993 WTC bomb gave no seismic signature (www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/20010911_WTC/WTC_LDEO_KIM.pdf), and plenty of people noticed that.
So, no bomb, yes plane.
editor
hiraethified
According to Jazzz, so far only his hero, William Rodriguez (and his strangely silent 22 unnamed chums), out of the tens of thousands of people working in the WTC managed to hear this thunderous, floor shaking explosion going off.axon said:
No office staff, car park attendants, cleaners, security staff, tourists, passers by, couriers, list operatives, office managers, shop staff or any of the huge mass of people employed on the lower level have come forward to say they heard this hugely unusual massive explosion going off before the plane hit. And that's rather strange seeing as it was apparently so fearsome people started screaming wildly.
And I'm still waiting for Jazzz to explain how this 'bomb' would have worked anyway. What would be the point of setting off a massive bomb seconds before a plane hit and then waiting an hour to set off even more invisible 'bombs' further up the building?
And then there's the thorny issue of how did 'they' bring in these tons of invisible explosives and manage to make thousands of invisible drill holes to house the invisible charges?
as I just suggested, it takes time for them to arrive.axon said:
1) The seismologist chaps quote plus or minus one second for their time.
2) Yes the bomb must have been big. That the 1993 bomb (which wasn't coupled to the ground IIRC) didn't register certainly would make it likely that the air impact wouldn't either. The aircraft didn't really 'slam' in to the tower. More, it got sliced up as it ploughed through the steel columns. And the momentum transfer would have been nearly all horizontal.
As I mentioned on the other thread, the flight 93 crash was a lesser seismic event than that associated with the WTC impacts: and they weren't able to find one at all for the Pentagon crash! (Missile, perchance?) This is all perfectly in keeping with our bomb theory and begs explanation otherwise.
