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Will you vote for independence?

Scottish independence?

  • Yes please

    Votes: 99 56.6%

  • No thanks

    Votes: 57 32.6%

  • Dont know yet

    Votes: 17 9.7%
  • Total voters
    175
i get where Quartz is coming from now, keep coming up with people who are leaving isn't really a story. Though the number of fucking Quango's there are in an organisation supposed the voice of industry is quite eyebrow raising.
What you had was some SNP politicos ringing round over Easter going how dare you embarrass the majority of the elected politicians accountable for your funding being in an organisation saying the opposite to what they are. What makes it telling is thas its three weeks since the decision was actually taken....guessing it was the first they've heard of it.
 
gosub said:
i get where Quartz is coming from now, keep coming up with people who are leaving isn't really a story. Though the number of fucking Quango's there are in an organisation supposed the voice of industry is quite eyebrow raising.
What you had was some SNP politicos ringing round over Easter going how dare you embarrass the majority of the elected politicians accountable for your funding being in an organisation saying the opposite to what they are. What makes it telling is thas its three weeks since the decision was actually taken....guessing it was the first they've heard of it.
Click to expand...
Is it significant to watch those staying? How do we interpret their decisions in the light of those exits?
 
danny la rouge said:
Is it significant to watch those staying? How do we interpret their decisions in the light of those exits?
Click to expand...

Competely, from my point of view. Strip out the amplifier of government opinion that clearly stuck between a rock and hard place. And you might have some genuine voices. Aquamarine power and Balhousie, thats got weight. Interesting with Aquamarine, energy UK competence, planning Holyrood - thats a company thats gone all in
 
CBI it now appears isn't what it says on the tin. It contains members that aren't industry- Quangos and Univesities (presumably to help shape what they, the Universities and Quangos do). Their voice on this would be misleading and can be discounted pulled as it is by those who set their budgets. And they are rightly withdrawing from the field. Of what's left you have genuine industry - that generates the wealth, these are IMPORTANT. I don't believe any of them were consulted three weeks ago before the statement.
The ones that leave- Aquamarine Power, Balhousie... they are signifcant, and you can look deeper at how their bread is buttered to see if that was a factor. Aquamarine should be buttered both sides, so a bold statement, Balhousie less so, healthcare already Holyrood.
CBI has weakened its position with the lack of consultation.
Actual genuine industry that leaves can embolden Yes.
No, by vitue of the way things have panned out, may claim "industry says NO!" on the back of those who stick with it and its position - but that is a weaker affirmation than that made by those (proper businesses) that leave.


Mishandling lead to shot in foot.
 
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gosub said:
CBI it now appears isn't what it says on the tin. It contains members that aren't industry- Quangos and Univesities (presumably to help shape what they, the Universities and Quangos do). Their voice on this would be misleading and can be discounted pulled as it is by those who set their budgets. And they are rightly withdrawing from the field. Of what's left you have genuine industry - that generates the wealth, these are IMPORTANT. I don't believe any of them were consulted three weeks ago before the statement.
The ones that leave- Aquamarine Power, Balhousie... they are signifcant, and you can look deeper at how their bread is buttered to see if that was a factor. Aquamarine should be buttered both sides, so a bold statement, Balhousie less so, healthcare already Holyrood.
CBI has weakened its position with the lack of consultation.
Actual genuine industry that leaves can embolden Yes.
No, by vitue of the way things have panned out, may claim "industry says NO!" on the back of those who stick with it and its position - but that is a weaker affirmation than that made by those (proper businesses) that leave.


Mishandling lead to shot in foot.
Click to expand...

Quite the enigmast aren't you?
 
gosub said:
i get where Quartz is coming from now, keep coming up with people who are leaving isn't really a story. Though the number of fucking Quango's there are in an organisation supposed the voice of industry is quite eyebrow raising.
What you had was some SNP politicos ringing round over Easter going how dare you embarrass the majority of the elected politicians accountable for your funding being in an organisation saying the opposite to what they are. What makes it telling is thas its three weeks since the decision was actually taken....guessing it was the first they've heard of it.
Click to expand...
CBI is the association for large employers, to be more precise. It's not necessarily a voice for 'industry'.

Aquamarine Power is funded mainly by government money at present, from a wide variety of sources such as Scottish Enterprise and the EU. I don't think they've made a sale yet.
 
gosub said:
CBI it now appears isn't what it says on the tin. It contains members that aren't industry- Quangos and Univesities (presumably to help shape what they, the Universities and Quangos do). Their voice on this would be misleading and can be discounted pulled as it is by those who set their budgets. And they are rightly withdrawing from the field. Of what's left you have genuine industry - that generates the wealth, these are IMPORTANT. I don't believe any of them were consulted three weeks ago before the statement.
The ones that leave- Aquamarine Power, Balhousie... they are signifcant, and you can look deeper at how their bread is buttered to see if that was a factor. Aquamarine should be buttered both sides, so a bold statement, Balhousie less so, healthcare already Holyrood.
CBI has weakened its position with the lack of consultation.
Actual genuine industry that leaves can embolden Yes.
No, by vitue of the way things have panned out, may claim "industry says NO!" on the back of those who stick with it and its position - but that is a weaker affirmation than that made by those (proper businesses) that leave.


Mishandling lead to shot in foot.
Click to expand...
gosub universities generate money, as well as education and research. To dismiss them as unimportant because they are not 'wealth generators' in your eyes is nonsensical. Three of the oldest universities in Scotland have left the CBI. They are also three of the wealthiest and the most influential in the UK. It is important that they took the decision to leave.
 
gosub said:
i get where Quartz is coming from now, keep coming up with people who are leaving isn't really a story. Though the number of fucking Quango's there are in an organisation supposed the voice of industry is quite eyebrow raising.
What you had was some SNP politicos ringing round over Easter going how dare you embarrass the majority of the elected politicians accountable for your funding being in an organisation saying the opposite to what they are. What makes it telling is thas its three weeks since the decision was actually taken....guessing it was the first they've heard of it.
Click to expand...
How do you know this decision was taken three weeks ago? Source?
 
gosub said:
i get where Quartz is coming from now, keep coming up with people who are leaving isn't really a story. Though the number of fucking Quango's there are in an organisation supposed the voice of industry is quite eyebrow raising.
What you had was some SNP politicos ringing round over Easter going how dare you embarrass the majority of the elected politicians accountable for your funding being in an organisation saying the opposite to what they are. What makes it telling is thas its three weeks since the decision was actually taken....guessing it was the first they've heard of it.
Click to expand...

The CBI "warnings" on independence have made front-page news for the last 12 months, it was nothing more than a campaign group promoting political as opposed to business interests. Business for Scotland, which has not had to register with the electoral commission was accused by the BBC of being pro-independence.

"Where Quartz is coming from" is an ardent no. His entire 'point' is completely ludicrous. If the CBI thing is meaningless, why is he even commenting on it? Maybe he is some sort of radical sceptic/puritan rationalist? We know is not the case because he has already made his mind up on the referendum.

You think CBI promotes genuine free-market economics? Big money is made with government collusion. These giants would not last a second under fair competition.
 
I make it that 14 organisations have now resigned from CBI over their stance, and 6 others that have publicly complained. What's interesting, though, is how coy CBI is being over their actual membership figures. BBC Scotland have been trying to find out how many organisations in Scotland are members, but so far we can only confirm those 20 who have either resigned or publicly complained. CBI is silent on the matter.
 
I'm surprised more haven't resigned: it's a great excuse for some to promote their Scottishness - a branding exercise, if you will.
 
equationgirl said:
gosub universities generate money, as well as education and research. To dismiss them as unimportant because they are not 'wealth generators' in your eyes is nonsensical. Three of the oldest universities in Scotland have left the CBI. They are also three of the wealthiest and the most influential in the UK. It is important that they took the decision to leave.
Click to expand...

i am well aware Unis motetise their research, and that foreign students bring money into the country and I wouldn't dismiss them as unimportant. However the revenue streams that stem from being part of UK sausage factory of education is a majority share of their income, a bun fight with SAAS and they are all fucked which is why they want to stay neutral. The guardian article that points to the decsion being made 3 weeks ago also gives a clue as to why they are in the CBI- not as to give clout for them as estemed parts of the education industry (presume they have better tailored ways of doing that (and if they didn't they will soon)) but to help find business partners and jobs for their graduates.
 
gosub said:
i am well aware Unis motetise their research, and that foreign students bring money into the country and I wouldn't dismiss them as unimportant. However the revenue streams that stem from being part of UK sausage factory of education is a majority share of their income, a bun fight with SAAS and they are all fucked which is why they want to stay neutral. The guardian article that points to the decsion being made 3 weeks ago also gives a clue as to why they are in the CBI- not as to give clout for them as estemed parts of the education industry (presume they have better tailored ways of doing that (and if they didn't they will soon)) but to help find business partners and jobs for their graduates.
Click to expand...
So you're actually backing up eg's point.
 
danny la rouge said:
I make it that 14 organisations have now resigned from CBI over their stance, and 6 others that have publicly complained. What's interesting, though, is how coy CBI is being over their actual membership figures. BBC Scotland have been trying to find out how many organisations in Scotland are members, but so far we can only confirm those 20 who have either resigned or publicly complained. CBI is silent on the matter.
Click to expand...


They reckon they had 50 CEO's involved on their white paper response. CBI is 240,000 businesses across UK and estimates 500,000 employed in Scotland, so thats 2 people per company on average;) strip out the quangos and the unis theres not a lot left. Here's hoping Federation of Small Businesses brings its A game
 
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