Will you vote for independence?

[danny la rouge]

One of my colleagues at work came through and said he'd just been shouted at by a Canadian customer who'd asked him which way he was going to vote in the referendum because he'd said No. I disagree with him on just about every level politically but that's a bit rich I think.

Did he ask the Canadian client how s/he will vote in the Federal Elections next year?

 

[weepiper]

Did he ask the Canadian client how s/he will vote in the Federal Elections next year?

Sadly I didn't hear. I'd have said 'thanks for your opinion but I shall feel free to ignore it'.

 

[equationgirl]

University of Aberdeen has also now left the CBI.

 

[Quartz]

Why don't you give the patronising a rest?

You've made the claim that this is important. It's up to you to prove it. Why don't you back it up? Because you cannot.

 

[Frankie Jack]

I'm thinking there will be a few more businesses tomorrow.

 

[equationgirl]

You've made the claim that this is important. It's up to you to prove it. Why don't you back it up? Because you cannot.

It's not meaningless at all. For big government organisations like that to make that decision over the Easter weekend AND announce it is quite momentous. Not to mention that the CBI is, as butchers says, fairly influential. They can't make the decision to become politically involved without at least speaking to the membership.

I said why it was important back two pages ago (see above). It's also important because organisations that big don't make decisions that quickly and certainly not when the UK is basically on a shutdown. For them to a) make the decision to pull out b) put out a press release about their decision and c) not wait until Tuesday to do all this is fairly unique and pretty much unprecedented.

Still think it's unimportant? Then perhaps you'll do everyone on the thread the courtesy of explaining why you think this.

 

[equationgirl]

I'm thinking there will be a few more businesses tomorrow.

Aye, I think there will be.

 

[Quartz]

I said why it was important back two pages ago (see above).

Sorry, that doesn't wash. These organisations have to be - or have taken the decision to be - politically neutral. Therefore they had to resign from the CBI. Their resignations are a natural consequence of the CBI's decision to be partial and are therefore without import. Note that they'd have had to resign if the CBI had decided in favour of independence.

 

[geminisnake]

Am I right in thinking the no campaign have been pretty silent thus far.
I certainly haven't heard of much activity.
Not that I would have.

The leafleter was only doing it because their boss told them to. Speaks volumes imo.

 

[equationgirl]

Sorry, that doesn't wash. These organisations have to be - or have taken the decision to be - politically neutral. Therefore they had to resign from the CBI. Their resignations are a natural consequence of the CBI's decision to be partial and are therefore without import. Note that they'd have had to resign if the CBI had decided in favour of independence.

Look, I told you what my reasons were. If you don't like them, that's up to you.

It's sodding obvious that they'd resign if the CBI had gone with the 'yes' campaign. I see no reason for you to state it in bold as if you'd imparted some great nugget of wisdom.

Also, could you answer the question about how else an organisation could leave the CBI other than by resignation please? And how about YOUR reasons?

 

[Quartz]

It's sodding obvious that they'd resign if the CBI had gone with the 'yes' campaign. I see no reason for you to state it in bold as if you'd imparted some great nugget of wisdom.

Well, you are making it out to be hugely important that they've decided to resign because the CBI has decided to be Unionist when it isn't important at all.

 

[equationgirl]

Well, you are making it out to be hugely important that they've decided to resign because the CBI has decided to be Unionist when it isn't important at all.

When in your as-yet unexplained opinion it isn't important. How about some explanation please? You're quick enough to demand explanations from everybody else.

Ask yourself this. Why didn't they wait until later in the week if it was so unimportant?

 

[Quartz]

When in your as-yet unexplained opinion it isn't important. How about some explanation please?

I have already explained: they had to resign.

You're quick enough to demand explanations from everybody else.

You're the one making the claim, not me.

 

[equationgirl]

I have already explained: they had to resign.



You're the one making the claim, not me.

You've explained nothing, yet continue to push me for information I have already stated on at least two separate occasions. Why is that?

 

[Quartz]

Right. You made the claim. You cannot back it up. Claim disproved. Thank you.

 

[equationgirl]

Right. You made the claim. You cannot back it up. Claim disproved. Thank you.

NO, I gave several reasons why it is important. You have chosen to dismiss out of hand the reasons I gave AND ignore any requests for you to back up your claim.

I've backed it up. You're ignoring it.

 

[butchersapron]

Right. You made the claim. You cannot back it up. Claim disproved. Thank you.

The import is in the fact that a great number of elite institutions are now at war over the referendum within a very influential network. It's really quite simple. Groups having to resign because of their constitutional rules in no way means that their actions are not important, meaningful or indicative. Or if you think that it renders them meaningless then for gods sake outline why - speak!

 

[DairyQueen]

What are you talking about Quartz - CBI claims to represent employers, but clearly doesn't. Even your own argument does not make sense. Some of CBI's members are neutral/some are pro-independence.

 

[steeplejack]

another predictable omnishambles from Quartz.

 

[Quartz]

What are you talking about Quartz - CBI claims to represent employers, but clearly doesn't. Even your own argument does not make sense.

I am not making any argument of the CBI's decision. I am pointing out that the recent resignations, of which equationgirl has tried to make so much, are meaningless. That is all I have said.

 

[danny la rouge]

I am not making any argument of the CBI's decision. I am pointing out that the recent resignations, of which equationgirl has tried to make so much, are meaningless. That is all I have said.

They do have meaning, though. This is the CBI. Institutions such as STV and several universities were quite happy to belong to the CBI until now, despite its overtly political nature. It consistently makes statements and pursues policies which are about as political you can get: it is the body that lobbies for bosses' interests (and that is at the heart of the political dynamic).

Now, however several institutions at the heart of Scottish civil society have left the CBI because of it registering as officially part of the No campaign. These organisations believed their constitutions allowed them to remain in the CBI while it carried out its normal political activities, but not now. This is a significant fissure in Scottish civil society.

 

[gosub]

It's only significant if there wasn't any prior consultation. CBI was always going to take a stance and the fence sitters were always going to sit on the fence

 

[danny la rouge]

It's only significant if there wasn't any prior consultation. CBI was always going to take a stance and the fence sitters were always going to sit on the fence

It's significant whether or not there was consultation.

 

[butchersapron]

A) It's not significant in those conditions only (or would you like to say why you think this is the case) and B) there was no consultation.

 

[danny la rouge]

A) It's not significant in those conditions only (or would you like to say why you think this is the case) and B) there was no consultation.

I think the confusion here is that gosub and Quatz are assuming one particular type of significance, which they have not outlined. I think (and I only assume this as they have not stated it) that "significance" for them means "these institutions that are leaving therefore support Yes".

The fact of their leaving the CBI does not mean they support Yes, it means they don't want to belong to a body that is registered as part of the No campaign.

 

[gosub]

Yes there are 2 significances if industry is saying No that's significant if it wasn't actually asked first that's significant, maybe a third if members who take money off the tax payers are coming under undue pressure that's significant

 

[butchersapron]

So you're saying that it's trebley significant rather than meaningless and telling us nothing. Maybe quartz could respond to your list of significances?

 

[danny la rouge]

Three more organisations have left the CBI over its status as official No campaign member: The Law Society of Scotland, Strathclyde University and Skills Development Scotland.

Law Society statement: "We do not believe we could credibly retain our impartiality whilst being a member of and actively contributing to another organisation which is formally registered with the Electoral Commission to campaign for a no vote".

 

[danny la rouge]

Highlands and Islands Enterprise just resigned from the CBI aswell. Anyone got an up to date (for now) list of the organisations who have left so far?

 

[rioted]

This is the CBI. .... It consistently makes statements and pursues policies which are about as political you can get: it is the body that lobbies for bosses' interests (and that is at the heart of the political dynamic).

Which is why Brown made Director-General Digby Jones Minister of State for trade and Industry.