Will you vote for independence?

[Frankie Jack]

Plaid’s Treasury spokesman Jonathan Edwards wading in with a call of saber rattling. I think he has a point as well looking to get Welsh representation on the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee.

About time there was more regional input and 'Nothing about us without us' representation.

 

[Quartz]

You should be able to zoom in and read the text here I think

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgZBLeACQAAf0cO.jpg:large

arrogant fucks.

I simply don't believe it.

 

[danny la rouge]

How does Scotland create a new currency for itself without issuing its own debt?

That's a different matter, the question is the share of the UK debt incurred before the existence of Scotland as an entity. I'm quite sure the SNP negotiating team fully intends to shoulder a share of that debt, but the logic of the Unionist position is that they needn't.

I honestly believe I've said enough for now on SNP currency policy, especially as I don't even support it.

 

[danny la rouge]

Is there much of a debate in Scotland on whether they will join the EU should they leave the UK? IIRC joining the Euro is compulsory for new members, and their currency has to shadow the Euro for at least two years beforehand.

This has run for years up here, Belushi. You may only just be hearing about it now, but we've had it daily for several years.

Each side produces experts and precedents, and opinions and arguments. The truth is, there is no international legal framework for this situation, so neither side knows for sure. It'll be done ad hoc. Many pages ago in this thread, I gave my opinion that in these days of energy uncertainly, France and Germany wouldn't be in a hurry to expel Scotland's oil and gas from the EU, and so that will be a strong motivator to expedite Scotland's membership. That's my guess. How long would it take? I think, given the resources in question, quicker than some imagine, but probably not in time for independence day 2016.

However, again, this is a policy I do not favour. I don't think Scotland should join the EU. I think that if we vote Yes, it will join the EU, but I'm opposed to that, for reasons I have repeatedly argued elsewhere (Incidentally, I think that Salmond's currency policy is, partly at least, a manoeuvre to allow Scotland to join the EU without signing up for the euro. However, it is worth remembering that the rules for joining the euro are called the Copenhagen agreement, after the city they were drafted in, and yet Denmark itself does not use the euro. So the EU is not as rule-bound as people imagine. Exceptions are made when they have to be).

 

[danny la rouge]

I simply don't believe it.

What don't you believe? It's in the paper this morning.

The website says: http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/yes-does-not-mean-yes.23438016

A REFERENDUM Yes vote would not guarantee Scottish independence and the 'status quo' will be maintained if talks do not go smoothly, a senior Coalition source has warned.

Do you think the Herald has made it up? Why would it? It's a story that trashes its own side!

This is absolutely to be expected. The UK state is stepping in with dirty tricks and spreading doubt and confusion, as we must have known it would. It is all kicking off now exactly because Better Together has underperformed, and the big boys are in to do the job properly.

 

[weepiper]

too late and tired to look up the context of this post by Ian Bone, but FOR A SCOTTISH SOCIALIST REPUBLIC is surely what we're really dealing with here (on teh whole):
http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/for-a-scottish-socialist-republic/
i hope to wake up to having it all explained

John MacLean was the original Scottish Socialist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Maclean_(Scottish_socialist)

 

[danny la rouge]

Sae come aa ye at hame wi freedom
Never heed whit the houdies croak for Doom
In yer hous aa the bairns o Aidam
Will fin breid, barley-bree an paintit room
Whan MacLean meets wi's friens in Springburn
Aa thae roses an geeans will turn tae blume
An a black laud frae yont Nyanga
Dings the fell gallows o the burghers doun.

 

[danny la rouge]

"I am not here, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot".

 

[Quartz]

What don't you believe? It's in the paper this morning.

The website says: http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/yes-does-not-mean-yes.23438016


Do you think the Herald has made it up? Why would it? It's a story that trashes its own side!

Say what you will about Cameron et al, but they do believe in Democracy. Until its properly sourced then I'm putting it as a SNP smear.

This is absolutely to be expected. The UK state is stepping in with dirty tricks and spreading doubt and confusion, as we must have known it would. It is all kicking off now exactly because Better Together has underperformed, and the big boys are in to do the job properly.

It's very suspicious that this comes so soon after Salmond getting slapped down over the currency issue. I suspect SNP dirty tricks.

 

[danny la rouge]

Not a big fan of BBC Scotland Morning Call, but anyone been listening?

I always thought that Yes would be hard-pressed to win unless the Tories did something catastrophic. It's only a phone-in show, but it sounds like they might have.

 

[weepiper]

The Edinburgh Evening News which is part of the Scotsman group, that other well-known pro-Yes-camp paper, is also running the story today

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-yes-might-not-mean-yes-1-3306137

 

[danny la rouge]

Say what you will about Cameron et al, but they do believe in Democracy. Until its properly sourced then I'm putting it as a SNP smear.

Do you think the Herald only thought they were talking to a senior Coalition source when actually it was an SNP source? They made a mistake about who they were talking to, and ran with it on the front page?

The NotW had the Fake Sheik, but the Herald has been duped by the Fake Senior Coalition Source.

The Herald is a serious paper. It knows what its sources are. It is also neither pro-independence nor pro-SNP.

 

[JTG]

If the EEN are running it too, does this suggest a co-ordinated 'leak'? Or is the EEN story piggybacking on the original Herald story?

 

[Quartz]

If it is true then Cameron needs to publicly fire the idiot.

 

[danny la rouge]

If the EEN are running it too, does this suggest a co-ordinated 'leak'? Or is the EEN story piggybacking on the original Herald story?

They're using the Herald:

"An unnamed senior colleague of Prime Minister David Cameron was quoted"

 

[JTG]

Yeah, saw that when I eventually read the story

 

[danny la rouge]

If it is true then Cameron needs to publicly fire the idiot.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that it's Danny Alexander. The Herald has in the past consistently supported the Lib Dems in eve of poll leaders, and has always been close to the Lib Dem hierarchy in Scotland. And I think he's doing his master's bidding. He's been told to do this.

 

[Quartz]

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that it's Danny Alexander. The Herald has in the past consistently supported the Lib Dems in eve of poll leaders, and has always been close to the Lib Dem hierarchy in Scotland. And I think he's doing his master's bidding. He's been told to do this.

Ooh yes, that makes sense. Clegg gets to put the boot in with plausible deniability, and Cameron gets the reputation of the man who lost the union.

 

[danny la rouge]

Apparently Alexander was also on Scotland Tonight defending the Union last night, so he was doing the rounds of the Scottish media yesterday. I'll need to watch it on the STV player to see if I can get any clues.

 

[Belushi]

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that it's Danny Alexander. The Herald has in the past consistently supported the Lib Dems in eve of poll leaders, and has always been close to the Lib Dem hierarchy in Scotland. And I think he's doing his master's bidding. He's been told to do this.

This is going to be one of the issues that's going to keep the Lawyers busy, who keeps Danny Alexander

 

[danny la rouge]

Ooh yes, that makes sense. Clegg gets to put the boot in with plausible deniability, and Cameron gets the reputation of the man who lost the union.

By "his boss" I meant Cameron. Cameron wants to sow doubt, but he doesn't want to be the one to say something like this directly. Alexander has reportedly "gone native" with the Tories. I think this is like Henry II and Thomas Becket. "Who said kill him? I didn't say that!"

 

[gosub]

Say what you will about Cameron et al, but they do believe in Democracy. Until its properly sourced then I'm putting it as a SNP smear.



It's very suspicious that this comes so soon after Salmond getting slapped down over the currency issue. I suspect SNP dirty tricks.

Read to me like part of currency slap down, take over 18 months to do the unpicking type comment.

 

[danny la rouge]

We Love You, You Bastards
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/8732-we-love-you-you-bastards

 

[Belushi]

It's a divorce, things are only going to get nastier.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's a divorce, things are only going to get nastier.

You're keeping Del Amitri. They were a gift.

 

[butchersapron]

I think some people are working very hard to make it nasty - as a last throw of the dice type thing - but it looks like play acting to me.

 

[danny la rouge]

I think some people are working very hard to make it nasty - as a last throw of the dice type thing - but it looks like play acting to me.

I agree. I don't think there's a realistic possibility that Westminster would ignore a Yes vote. It's bluster.

 

[geminisnake]

It's a divorce, things are only going to get nastier.

It's only a potential divorce, they are being major arseholes before the decision has even been made. They are still slightly ahead in the polls but I suspect this bullying will have an adverse affect on that. Danny Alexander can stay down south, he's a tosser.

 

[Diamond]

They're really going to go for it, aren't they?

In a fit of pique too!

It would be the crowning glory of Scotland's slow but steady decline since the late 19th century.

 

[danny la rouge]

They're really going to go for it, aren't they?

In a fit of pique too!

It would be the crowning glory of Scotland's slow but steady decline since the late 19th century.

What exactly are you hoping will be the response to this? I bet you're *hil-a-rious* in pubs, just before you are punched. Again.