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Will you vote for independence?

Scottish independence?

  • Yes please

    Votes: 99 56.6%

  • No thanks

    Votes: 57 32.6%

  • Dont know yet

    Votes: 17 9.7%
  • Total voters
    175
DotCommunist said:
do the scottish electorate hold the same sort of vague patriotic attachment to the pound as the english?
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No idea, I've never seen a poll. There is an attachment to Scottish banknotes, though. Even Unionists will regale you with stories of how they caused bemusement/were refused service etc with Scots notes south of the border.
 
danny la rouge said:
No idea, I've never seen a poll. There is an attachment to Scottish banknotes, though. Even Unionists will regale you with stories of how they caused bemusement/were refused service etc with Scots notes south of the border.
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yeah, I worked a few retail outlets where we weren't allowed to take scots notes, its because the unfamiliarity allows shonky forged notes to pass into a southern till without question whereas I can spot a dodgy english 20 at ten paces
 
A blog piece on Osborne buggering up his bargaining position:

http://www.cmonscotland.org/#!Bargaining-positions/c112t/340B4E98-2D2F-4124-8C2C-78DFECB36A32

So instead Westminster has pulled out its gun and is pointing it at our heads. 'No Sterling', they say. Scotland has already sounded out its response – 'OK, we're not taking any debt'. In a standard negotiation the next step ought to be for the south to say 'in that case you're not getting...'. The problem is two fold. Firstly, what is the '…' in that threat? Secondly, Scotland has realised the gun isn't loaded and is already on its way down to the pub to meet friends.

So what is it that Britain has that Scotland wants?

Very little, except cordial, neighbourly relations. This is the key thing about negotiation; you have to have something the other side wants if you want to get anything for yourself. If you only have one thing that the other side wants (Sterling) and you take it off the table you have nothing.

[...]It can't not have a free travel arrangement since the impact on its economy would be severe. It could withhold a British passport. Oh boo-hoo. We'd have an EU passport. On cross-border agreements there is little they could do without causing undue harm on the rest of the UK.​


Disclaimer: I did not write this blog, and take no responsibility for any language or ideas that you may take exception to.
 
The SNP have really cocked this up.

If only because on a basic analysis it makes their claim to independence look laughable.

Vote to be separate but essentially surrender all monetary and a very significant degree of fiscal power to Westminster!

Yep, can reeeeeeally see the difference there...
 
It would be hilarious if the Scots voted yes out of some spiteful inferiority complex given what has passed this week, and that is very possible because most Scots nationalism grows from that kind of mindset...
 
The point being that the yes camp don't really have a plan, they're just very good at talking.

It'd probably all work out in the long run mind but at quite significant cost over a 5 to 10 year time horizon. A price worth paying? Maybe for some. Depends how much you like flags or dislike London centric weather reports, I suppose...
 
Diamond said:
The point being that the yes camp don't really have a plan
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3 things.

1. the SNP and the Yes camp are not the same thing. There are many people and organisations who support a Yes vote who are not the SNP. Many of us do not support currency union (although some do). Currency union is SNP policy, not Yes camp policy.

2. there is a very big plan. It is called Scotland's Future. I have it sitting on my kitchen table. It is detailed, exhaustive and weighty. I don't agree with all of it, but it is certainly there, and it is considerable.

3. it is the No camp, on the other hand, do not have a plan. They are unable to tell us what will happen if there is a No vote. Will we get the Calman Commission plan? Will we get the Scotland Act 2012? Will we have further devolution with tax raising powers, as Labour used to promise but have recently been leaking that they may drop? What is the Tory plan for further devolution, which Ruth Davidson has hinted at?

We have nothing concrete other than promises of "something better than the status quo". Well, we were promised that if we voted No in 79, and it took 25 years to arrive.

Here is a link to Scotland's Future: http://www.scotreferendum.com/

Where is the No camp's plan? Link please. Questions answered, please. What does a No vote mean?
 
I have to confess though Danny, I don't have the benefit of the same document in front of me so can't refer to what the alternative scenario is for the yes camp if, as seems likely, they are ejected from the pound but going on SNP ministers' statements, it sounds like they are fairly concerned and, if that is so, then it's probably reason for the rest of Scotland to be so.

Unless this is some sort of uber-cunning double bluff...

Wheels within wheels maybe...
 
danny la rouge said:
3 things.

1. the SNP and the Yes camp are not the same thing. There are many people and organisations who support a Yes vote who are not the SNP. Many of us do not support currency union (although some do). Currency union is SNP policy, not Yes camp policy.

2. there is a very big plan. It is called Scotland's Future. I have it sitting on my kitchen table. It is detailed, exhaustive and weighty. I don't agree with all of it, but it is certainly there, and it is considerable.

3. it is the No camp, on the other hand, do not have a plan. They are unable to tell us what will happen if there is a No vote. Will we get the Calman Commission plan? Will we get the Scotland Act 2012? Will we have further devolution with tax raising powers, as Labour used to promise but have recently been leaking that they may drop? What is the Tory plan for further devolution, which Ruth Davidson has hinted at?

We have nothing concrete other than promises of "something better than the status quo". Well, we were promised that if we voted No in 79, and it took 25 years to arrive.

Here is a link to Scotland's Future: http://www.scotreferendum.com/

Where is the No camp's plan? Link please. Questions answered, please. What does a No vote mean?
Click to expand...

little confused as the document you refer to Scotland's Future, reading the pdf from the website says it looked at 4 options at is in favour of currency Union and then bangs on about how wonderful a currency union would be. It says it took its work from a report by the fiscal Commission,http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00414291.pdf
 
Diamond said:
I have to confess though Danny, I don't have the benefit of the same document in front of me so can't refer to what the alternative scenario is for the yes camp if, as seems likely, they are ejected from the pound but going on SNP ministers' statements, it sounds like they are fairly concerned and, if that is so, then it's probably reason for the rest of Scotland to be so.

Unless this is some sort of uber-cunning double bluff...

Wheels within wheels maybe...
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For fuck’s sake, Diamond, at least have the decency to read the thread. You don’t have to go far back, either. We’ve just spent the last few pages discussing currency options. And it’s not the first time they’ve been discussed on the thread. So there’s a fair bit of detail.

So, let’s see, what have you got? A Scottish friend. Well done, you are qualified to have an opinion. Now try reading some stuff so that it’s an informed one.

No answer yet on what the No plan is, btw? I asked you that earlier, and I see no answer. Any link to their documents on what form devolution will take if we vote No?

OK, so to rehash what I’ve been saying: I don’t support monetary union, I think it’s a mistake. It’s SNP policy. I am neither an SNP supporter nor actually a nationalist.

OK, so why would independence with monetary union be worth having? Lots of states are in monetary unions. They are not asking to give up their independence. There is no such thing as a completely independent country in any case. All countries have some form of interdependence. Even the Roman Empire relied on trade.

Why would an independent Scotland with monetary union be worth having? Here’s 3 good ones: 1. Get rid of trident. 2. Defend the welfare state here at least. 3. End austerity ideology here.

If your argument is that independence with monetary union isn’t independent enough for you, then you are clearly no Unionist. That’s good, because the Unionist alliance’s behaviour today has been shameful. Peter Tatchell today condemned what he called the “disgraceful threats and bullying of Scotland the Scottish people over the pound currency union by the Conservatives, UK Labour and the Lib Dems”.
 
A couple of articles on currency and Osbornes threats.

Almost every article I read get's back to failing banks and bailouts. Why the hell should that be OUR problem and not the problem of risky bank dealings. Banks should be getting a grip and not use their greed and incompetence as a threat of needing future bailouts. perhaps there's more in the pipeline...

Besides almost every country is at the mercy of big finance and the markets.

http://www.cityam.com/blog/1392289544/osbornes-claims-scotland-couldnt-use-pound-dont-stack.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-02-12/scotland-would-not-need-permission-to-use-pound/

http://www.cityam.com/blog/13921966...e-pound-without-englands-permission-heres-why
 
1932399_605100759567935_984364932_n.jpg
 
Is there much of a debate in Scotland on whether they will join the EU should they leave the UK? IIRC joining the Euro is compulsory for new members, and their currency has to shadow the Euro for at least two years beforehand.
 
Belushi said:
Is there much of a debate in Scotland on whether they will join the EU should they leave the UK? IIRC joining the Euro is compulsory for new members, and their currency has to shadow the Euro for at least two years beforehand.
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If Scotland has to rejoin after independence I don't see why the rUK doesn't. We are already members(my passport says so), as are England, Wales and NI. I don't see how one country only would have to rejoin.
I certainly don't know anyone who discusses the EU. Indy first, sort the monarchy, euro, etc later :)

People seem to be missing the point that we could use the euro, the dollar, the pound or any other currency if we wanted to. A monetary union is NOT a necessity. I think SNP were going with that to sweeten potential no voters.
 
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geminisnake said:
If Scotland has to rejoin after independence I don't see why the rUK doesn't. We are already members, as are England, Wales and NI. I don't see how one country only would have to rejoin.
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The UK is already a member, but Scotland will be a new state; I've done a google and I see the situation isn't very clear at the moment, but it looks as if it wouldn't just be a formality.
 
Belushi said:
The UK is already a member, but Scotland will be a new state; I've done a google and I see the situation isn't very clear at the moment, but it looks as if it wouldn't just be a formality.
Click to expand...

So will the rest of the UK then. They can't have it both ways, don't believe the lies!
Basically everything that we are being threatened with is afaics BS. If the UK joined a thing and Scotland leaving means Scotland has to renegotiate everything how does that not hold for the rUK? If we are a new state so are you mate :)
 
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