Will you vote for independence?
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newbie
undisambiguated
no I don't want to discuss general stuff about constitutions either. But my original point stands, there is no mechanism for making something "permanent and irreversible".
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
Which point do you need clarification upon - the shitstorm that independence will unleash or the one that devo-max will let loose?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I agree. Are you talking about the vow on the front of the daily record by the three party leaders or something someone has said on here though?
Why are people talking about devo max? That's not on offer.
newbie
undisambiguated
quite so, although constitutionally demanding a 2/3 popular majority to enable change has that effect in places where guns don't come into play.
So that particular 'guarantee' is cobblers.
newbie
undisambiguated
the 'guarantee' by the three party leaders
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Ok. Can't see irreversible in that - i can see permanent. And there is a small crucial difference. The latter can mean intended to last forever, whereas the former means inherently definitionally impossible to reverse. So they do have some sort of justification for using the term permanent if they were ever picked up on it. Again, not really relevant if we all agree (and as they know) that nothing can really be said politically to be permanent. So no more on this sideline from me!
Haven't see today's Daily Record but imagine this is more back of a fag packet stuff and certainly not devo max.
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
Clarification on this so called 'pain' of which you speak. That's Bitter talk that is.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
I posted the pledge earlier Sue. It's the same shit rehashed.
Guarantee One
❱❱ New powers for the Scottish Parliament.
❱❱ Holyrood will be strengthened with extensive new powers, on a timetable beginning on September 19, with legislation in 2015.
❱❱ The Scottish Parliament will be a permanent and irreversible part of the British constitution.
Guarantee Two
❱❱ The guarantee of fairness to Scotland.
❱❱ The guarantee that the modern purpose of the Union is to ensure opportunity and security by pooling and sharing our resources equitably for our defence, prosperity and the social and economic welfare of every citizen, including through UK pensions and UK funding of healthcare.
Guarantee Three
❱❱ The power to spend more on the NHS if that is Scottish people’s will.
❱❱ The guarantee that with the continued Barnett allocation, based on need and with the power to raise its own funds, the final decisions on spending on public services in Scotland, including on the NHS, will be made by the Scottish Parliament.
❱❱ The Scottish Parliament will have the last word on how much is spent on health. It will have the power to keep the NHS in public hands and the capacity to protect it.
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
Says it all.
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
It is sickening how much coverage these 'pledges' are getting. We have basically reached the point where everyone knows Better Together has nothing, so we end up just repeating what they said months ago on our public broadcaster and all the major media outlets in the country. This is absolutely crazy and we get accused of 'intimidation' when we complain about it. Complete disgrace. We have reached the point where they have spun these policies in three or four completely different ways each day for the last four days.
No, it is not.
You cannot render a country in two without there being major economic costs.
To pretend otherwise either means (a) you are ignoring the inevitable or (b) you are not really talking about independence at all.
Oh, I must've skipped over that -- didn't realise that was meant to be it... Back of a fag packet about sums it up right enough.
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
I do understand Wastemonster will be in dire straits when the revenues from Scotland cease. We do bolster the dire trade deficit.
newbie
undisambiguated
Frankie quotes what's on the Daily Record website.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I can only see irreversible there as part of a Gordon brown thing and as what appears to be the papers gloss on the pledge.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I can see a number of reasons why they used it - Cameron made a point of saying it a lot last week, Brown has been doing so this week - and i guess the paper are more than happy to go along with giving that impression given their opposition to independence.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
No. As you'd know if you'd read the thread. (The link was posted after you joined it. Have a look: Darling & Balls clarified nothing new was on offer, and there was no cross party agreement on new powers. All that's on offer is what was already announced).
Here.
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
I've not got time to do the maths but when was the last time any Westminster Govt had a 2/3 majority? Don't see how the referendum vote should have rules set for it when the Parliament vote doesn't.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That 2/3 was a reference to article 5 of the US constitution. 2/3 of Congress is one way in which it can be changed, but this happens so rarely that it effectively becomes unchangeable. newbie wasn't saying that the scottish independence referendum should have to pass by at least 2/3s.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
clegg still banging the 'fairness' drum? fuck me he must think everyone else is a moron. We've see lib dem fairness. Neckshots for the lot of the weasels
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
for anyone interested in polls etc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014
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