Will you vote for independence?
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
you didn't see Presscot crying over an egging. He got stuck right in.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Heckling is a democratic tradition. I heard No supporters shouting over the Yes speaker at a local debate here. She didn't go crying to the BBC.
Shouting down is not.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Where was the microphone in the clip we watched? On the camera. Where was the camera? Amongst the hecklers. (The placard holders we see are for the most part silent).
Not in the clip I saw.
Freedom of speech is one of my red button topics. For democracy to work, people must have the freedom to speak.
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
Difficult to talk when Spud is bawling through a loud speaker shouting "HE will be heard". 
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
Bitters will make a three course meal of this though. ((poor Spud))
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I am a freedom of speech fundamentalist. To suggest Murphy has been denied his freedom of speech or expression is wrong. He hasn't.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
and do you agree that people should be challenged when talking rubbish?
After they've finished spouting their rubbish. Let them be hanged by their own words.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
An old friend of mine who was a staunch No supporter (originally from East End of Glasgow, traditional lefty) today told me she was likely to vote Yes. I was gobsmacked. I don't even bother talking to her about the referendum because I knew we wouldn't agree.
What changed her mind was all the talk of the Tory defection to UKIP, and possibly more to follow. She says "we have to take the chance to get out".
This surprised me, because I didn't actually think it'd have much impact on the debate. I could even see it helping No, as people might see it as a sign the Tories are weakened. But no, she tells me that she and several others I'd counted as No are thinking the same way. They see Westminster lunging right, and want out.
Sorry for doubting you weepiper, but locally anyway, there does seem to be an effect.
What changed her mind was all the talk of the Tory defection to UKIP, and possibly more to follow. She says "we have to take the chance to get out".
This surprised me, because I didn't actually think it'd have much impact on the debate. I could even see it helping No, as people might see it as a sign the Tories are weakened. But no, she tells me that she and several others I'd counted as No are thinking the same way. They see Westminster lunging right, and want out.
Sorry for doubting you weepiper, but locally anyway, there does seem to be an effect.
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
The Murphy thing is depressing. He is "giving Yes Scotland 72 hours to call off the attack dogs" so more of this shit next week. His career as a credible politician is over, which is probably a good thing.
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
http://wingsoverscotland.com/preaching-to-the-converted/
Yep.
A couple of months ago we observed that Jim Murphy’s sparsely-attended tour of 100 Scottish street corners appeared to be mostly populated by Labour politicians and activists following him around multiple locations to pad out the, well, let’s call them “crowds”. It’s interesting to note that he now seems to have abandoned any pretence.
And it makes the point of the exercise a little hard to discern.
If there are any ordinary undecided voters in this scene, they’re struggling to get near Mr Murphy in order to hear him for the ranks of people holding No placards, who one must assume are already on Murphy’s side.
In this remarkable shot (which would seem to be from somewhere in the Aberdeen area, judging by the presence of Labour’s Willie Young next to Murphy), we’re reliably informed that the delirious-looking fan on the right is in fact a local Conservative councillor. The older woman in the middle appears to be screaming in similar ecstasy, which must make it difficult for anyone behind her to hear what’s being said.
(Especially as the second row appears to be occupied by anti-Murphy protesters, who presumably are also making some noise.)
There have been various scenes of confrontation on the tour, including a particularly unedifying episode where Murphy bellowed at a little old lady who’d asked him a reasonable question about the No camp’s appalling and groundless scaremongering around cross-border healthcare. And this week the mobile shouting match predictably culminated in some idiot hitting Murphy with an egg.
Given that having two sets of diehard supporters yelling at each other all over Scotland seems unlikely to ever achieve any constructive purpose, readers might be forgiven for thinking the cynical and unworthy thought that the only point in the tour continuing at all was to try to provoke exactly such an incident, so that it could be splashed across the media as evidence of more vile separatist bullying.
We hope that nobody else is dumb enough to fall for it.
Yep.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
He had a loudspeaker. I've seen much worse barrackings. Including the one I mentioned earlier. (Miriam Brett, btw: a young, quiet spoken woman. She held onto her nerve, her temper, and, as a result, the respect of the audience).
William McGonnagall, writing in his memoir of his speaking tours, matter-of-factly threw in the excellent line: " Well, I must say that the first man who threw peas at me was a publican".
Can you imagine John MacLean throwing in the towel because of an egg?
I think people should ignore Murphy rather than barrack him; the photos of him talking to empty pavements are far funnier and make a better point. (He's got a reaction, and he's going to milk it). But he's being a bit of a baby.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I always think egging is a bit shit, but Murphy manages to be both a shithouse and a mendacious twat.
Be interesting to see if the UKIP threat manages to get traction (fuck, I hate that word). Yes risk looking a bit desperate if they make too much of it, but it might be their final card.
Be interesting to see if the UKIP threat manages to get traction (fuck, I hate that word). Yes risk looking a bit desperate if they make too much of it, but it might be their final card.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
exactly this.
not ideal behaviour but Murphy "upturned crate" tour has been an audience-free disaster. It makes John Major's 1992 soapbox tour look like a preaching tour by Martin Luther King, at the height of his powers, by comparison.
Watch for him "cancelling on police advice" next week and accusing Yes of co-ordinating foul-mouthed egg mobs the length and breadth of the land. Murphy's a busted flush, and people will in the main laugh this off.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Hopefully.
But the press do seem to be going for the "it's turning nasty" line. (It isn't, but they love blowing up the odd incident).
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Indeed. All the soapbox stuff is supposed to be about reducing the 'distance' to the punters, creating a bit of (false) authenticity. But if you shit yourself when the first bit of authenticity arrives, the tactic was never for you. With the added minders/security he would have been given there was never any chance of anything happening if he'd carried on. Pathetic, dishonest politics to turn this back on Yes. I'd have had the tiniest bit of respect for him if he'd have come out with some sort of 'bring your eggs, bring your flour, I'm carrying on' type thing.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Major at least had some experience of the rough and tumble, and getting abuse from real life voters.
Murphy, being of the 1997 generation, has been cosseted from reality, making long winded pre spun addresses to carefully selected audiences and at expensive bar-code access only seminars. He clearly has very little idea of how to handle sustained hostility or heckling.
He got dog's abuse in Montrose and Carnoustie as well, apparently, yesterday. I was at work but there was some stuff about it on twitter.
Murphy, being of the 1997 generation, has been cosseted from reality, making long winded pre spun addresses to carefully selected audiences and at expensive bar-code access only seminars. He clearly has very little idea of how to handle sustained hostility or heckling.
He got dog's abuse in Montrose and Carnoustie as well, apparently, yesterday. I was at work but there was some stuff about it on twitter.
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
Possible egg plant ?
from Facebook.
from Facebook.
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
Nah, it was a different guy.
It is absolutely ridiculous how much coverage this is getting. What happened when Miliband was hit with an egg for fuck sake. This is a guy, former defense secretary getting on a soapbox going to every town and shouting at people. Can you imagine the chaos Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon would cause if either did this with no security? Murphy's government declared war on Iraq illegally ffs
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
Yet there is virtually no media cover for this(apols for Scum link but they seem to be the only ones running it)
Also I ain't signing up to get full story and hubby can't remember where he read it now 
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sco.../referendum2014/5863830/Better-tailgater.html
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
He was spouting shite in Kirkcaldy. Do you know much about the history of that area? He and his Tory bedfellows are responsible for decimating the coal industry, the fishing industry and the steel industry. Have you driven through some areas of Fife?? They are not far from derelict. It's depressing as feck. They still haven't recovered. He's lucky he was only egged imo
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
I hear ya Gem. I'd like to boot his arse.
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
The egger..
Let him spout. The more people that hear him the better. Let them make up their own minds.
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
Not sure, I reckon Murphy deserved to get heckled. I find it quite encouraging that other people are annoyed and willing to go out an protest. This was never about nationalism, they did not like his policies. Murphy kept bringing it back to nationalism because he has no arguments. Some called him a traitor. It had nothing to do with his unionism, and everything to do with the fact he betrayed Labour values for a very long time.
Sure, things got out of hand. But someone like Murphy, shouting nationalist at people was bound to rile up the lefties. Its a disgrace that Murphy can get away with doing that.
Sure, things got out of hand. But someone like Murphy, shouting nationalist at people was bound to rile up the lefties. Its a disgrace that Murphy can get away with doing that.
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