Will you vote for independence?

[weepiper]

What's the ccTLD going to be? Seychelles have .sc and Jordan have .jo.

.scot

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/dot-scot-internet-domain-given-go-ahead-1-3140723

 

[two sheds]

Right, I get it. Yes, no MP technically votes on devolved issues. So in that example, you're right, the Scottish MP cannot vote on issues affecting his own constituency, because they are dealt with by the Scottish Parliament.

Ahhh of course, ta. It suddenly makes sense.

And as you say it has been important, from a Guardian article:

In a vote to set up foundation trusts in the English NHS, Blair's majority was cut to 35 because many English Labour MPs rebelled or failed to vote; Blair needed 67 Scottish and Welsh MPs to push the trusts through. Blair needed similar levels of loyalty in January 2004 to introduce tuition fees, a policy firmly rejected in Scotland.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/jan/17/what-is-west-lothian-question

 

[DairyQueen]

Yes. It is a total disgrace. All these people campaigning in Scotland to keep the UK, effectively screwed England completely. I would not get too worked up though, insofar as we Scots get better treatment. It is likely that we will suffer as a result of these votes. A Scottish Labour government in Scotland would probably try and 'harmonise' tuition fees policies. Not sure they would have the balls to set up foundation trusts, but that would depend on what the Westminster Labour Party ends up doing.

Actually, if Labour get in, I fully expect to hear this 'harmonisation' being made much more formal. If you follow Chinese domestic policy, you'll know the context.

 

[danny la rouge]

The different devolved authorities all have their own "West Lothian Question": Wales, Northern Ireland, and London all have devolved assemblies assemblies with differing powers. MPs in the area any one of those have issues they can vote on in Westminster without affecting their own back yard.

This is a problem for the Union whether Yes wins or not.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm in a cafe in Ireland. Just been asked again if "Scotland will go for it". Everyone here seems to think it's the obvious choice to vote Yes.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's Ballymaloe, Co Cork, if you're in the neighbourhood.

 

[two sheds]

Isn't it a bit strange that devolved authorities have two sets of MPs? That's what confused me from the first. You'd think there'd be just one set of say just Scottish MPs and they'd sit in Scottish Parliament. Difficulty of getting them together for issues that affect the whole UK I suppose.

 

[danny la rouge]

Isn't it a bit strange that devolved authorities have two sets of MPs? That's what confused me from the first. You'd think there'd be just one set of say just Scottish MPs and they'd sit in Scottish Parliament. Difficulty of getting them together for issues that affect the whole UK I suppose.

Well, Holyrood has MSPs. London has Boris and Assembly Members. Wales has AMs.

 

[Quartz]

This is a problem for the Union whether Yes wins or not.

I disagree. There's a nice easy solution: abolish the devolved parliaments and simply say that the parliaments of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are comprised of the (Westminster) MPs from those parts. It works for the UK as a whole, so why not let it work for each part? Politically, it's delicious for the Unionists as it would leave the big players in the SNP swinging in the wind while reinforcing the Union and saving money.

 

[DairyQueen]

I disagree. There's a nice easy solution: abolish the devolved parliaments and simply say that the parliaments of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are comprised of the (Westminster) MPs from those parts. It works for the UK as a whole, so why not let it work for each part? Politically, it's delicious for the Unionists as it would leave the big players in the SNP swinging in the wind while reinforcing the Union and saving money.

That's insane. Let's start with the fact that in your hypothetical example the UK would turn its back on the Good Friday Agreement, and I cannot even be bothered talking you through the other nonsense that would come from it.

No doubt the Unionists would love it, but the 'unionists' are also becoming increasingly unpopular in England and the disconnect between public opinion and policy is so massive down there on nearly every single issue they blunder into; health, education, welfare, even data privacy. Only the Tories have something that resembles a long-term stable base, and they are basically middle-class British nationalists.

 

[DairyQueen]

Without wishing to highlight nationalism, there is an article that discusses the Unionist view of Scotland.

 

[danny la rouge]

I disagree. There's a nice easy solution

There *is* a solution, but that doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist.

However, your solution won't happen. Not least because it would create outrage among the political classes who are currently Unionist.

The more elegant solution would be a well considered federal system. The problem is that there's currently no demand for it in England, and the only people proposing it are the toxic Lib-dems.

 

[Quartz]

Without wishing to highlight nationalism, there is an article that discusses the Unionist view of Scotland.

It doesn't discuss it at all. It's a harangue over the suppression of Scottish nationalism.

 

[Quartz]

However, your solution won't happen. Not least because it would create outrage among the political classes who are currently Unionist.

More likely because neither Cameron nor Miliband have the courage.

The more elegant solution would be a well considered federal system.

Do tell.

 

[DairyQueen]

More likely because neither Cameron nor Miliband have the courage.

You're kidding right? If they could do it, they would. The reason they are not doing it is not courage, but that, particularly for Labour, it would be totally suicidal. As I said, it could reignite the Northern Irish conflict, wipe out Labour north of the border and in Wales, and would almost certainly be a game-changer in terms of the referendum.

Just because you do not want a Scottish Parliament and like Westminster parties does not mean that anyone really agrees with you beyond very strange strata of Scottish society that are very old, very right-wing, or both.

 

[danny la rouge]

Do tell.

Well, a federal UK. (Or rUK). Central government to have such powers as foreign policy and defence. Federation of regional governments for other powers.

I'll leave it to someone who supports it to propose the model. But it is the logical solution to the current asymmetric devolution.

But after 18th September it won't affect us. It'll be a matter for the people of rUK. I wouldn't dream of interfering.

 

[pogofish]

Seems that Tommy Sheridan has had a pro-independence meeting at a local community centre cancelled by the council, who claim it might be illegal. Hmmm...!

 

[DotCommunist]

would scotland still be part of the commonwealth after a yes vote? ma wants to know

 

[DairyQueen]

The current Scottish Government does not plan to leave the Commonwealth, I think it is also in the constitution that Scotland would be a Constitutional Monarchy.

 

[danny la rouge]

would scotland still be part of the commonwealth after a yes vote? ma wants to know

Yes.

Is she watching the Countries That Used To Be Part of the UK But Aren't Any More Games?

 

[danny la rouge]

Seems that Tommy Sheridan has had a pro-independence meeting at a local community centre cancelled by the council, who claim it might be illegal. Hmmm...!

He's poison. His corrosive presence taints the pro independence cause.

But on the other hand, public meetings are a long established part of democracy. They are by nature partisan. What is the council's argument?

 

[weepiper]

He's poison. His corrosive presence taints the pro independence cause.

But on the other hand, public meetings are a long established part of democracy. They are by nature partisan. What is the council's argument?

It's because he's not officially part of the Yes or No campaigns and it's a council-owned property I believe.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's because he's not officially part of the Yes or No campaigns and it's a council-owned property I believe.

Is he not registered as a campaigner?

 

[DairyQueen]

It doesn't discuss it at all. It's a harangue over the suppression of Scottish nationalism.

I think you miss the point here. It is not about whether or not Scottish identity/nationalism is being suppressed, which it is. It is the fact that British identity/nationalism is largely about triumphalism and militarism. Even the whole union argument is laced with that. Actually, depressingly, this is the most benign part of British nationalism. That's why the Tories made a furore about flying military jets over Glasgow as a show of force.

What it means for people in the streets, the anti-immigration, the purity of our culture, "what it means to be British" (english-speaking christians) is the real insidious side of it that rarely gets discussed. In many respects it reminds me of the old Soviet citizen line the USSR tried.

 

[DairyQueen]

He's poison. His corrosive presence taints the pro independence cause.

But on the other hand, public meetings are a long established part of democracy. They are by nature partisan. What is the council's argument?

I still think Sheridan is a great public speaker, packs the halls, and has done a good job campaigning this referendum. But he still went on Big Brother and everything went downhill from there.

 

[pogofish]

It's because he's not officially part of the Yes or No campaigns and it's a council-owned property I believe.

Yet Aberdeen has a track record for allowing non-registered interest groups to participate/fuck around with the rules fully - Look at the UTG ref/debacle.

 

[Quartz]

That's why the Tories made a furore about flying military jets over Glasgow as a show of force.

What a load of cobblers. It was the Red Arrows and the SNP wanted them to stream white and blue only, instead of red, white, and blue.

 

[danny la rouge]

I still think Sheridan is a great public speaker, packs the halls, and has done a good job campaigning this referendum. But he still went on Big Brother and everything went downhill from there.

My dislike of him doesn't come from his Big Brother performance, but I have discussed it enough on these boards; I'll spare this thread.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Daily Record polls today.

 

[DotCommunist]

Yes.

Is she watching the Countries That Used To Be Part of the UK But Aren't Any More Games?

this did occur to me but then I doubted myself cos of the whole 'will scotland have to re-apply for eu membership' thing.