Wikileaks: Heroes of free speech or dangerous subversives?

[nino_savatte]

Yes. They proactively seek to receive stolen, hacked and other unlawfully obtained material and to provide an (allegedly) risk free (to the original thief or hacker) means of publicising it.

Do you know anything about Assange? His motives? The other people involved with Wikileaks? Their motives? ...

(I do, of course, realise that because he uses the internets he must be beyond reproach ... )

Maybe not, but we do know an awful lot about how the state behaves in such situations. Have you ever heard of COINTELPRO or do you think that the very mention of that acronym signifies an adherence to some sort of 'conspiracy theory'?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

My only point is that the likes of you are rushing to canonise St Julian of Assange without knowing the faintest thing about him, his associates or their motives ...

We can only judge him by what he and his associates are doing. They are publishing leaked documents, videos, etc on the internet. Those documents include proof that US troops are murdering Iraqis in the streets of Baghdad. They include proof that certain elements of government see themselves as involved in a world power game. They are shortly, if rumour is correct, to include proof of the wrongdoings of bankers.

The hypocrites call foul, claim that this is endangering lives, but this is merely another example of their hypocrisy. Their lies are being exposed, the true nature of their wars is being revealed. And this man Assange and his associates are risking their lives to do it. I know enough to applaud the man.

 

[likesfish]

COINTELPRO a slightly overated 60s throwback that got a lot of hippy wildly over excited that when you decide you going to overthrow a state with armed revoultion sort of the state might not be too keen on letting you do it ffs
A little bit of editing leaving certain names out would not have hurt wiikileaks.
not sure its changed much war shit things happen if you needed film proof of that

 

[detective-boy]

As for Wikileaks "playing God", I would suggest to you that you are being a wee bit melodramatic.

They are taking it upon themselves to publish anything they like without any restriction or consideration agreed with anyone else. That they and only they know best.

That sounds like a God complex to me ...

(and as for melodramatic, how exactly did the revelation that some senior Chinese officials privately opined that they wouldn't necessarily have a problem with a reunified Korea, led by the South reduce the likelihood of a new Korean War erupting ... )

 

[detective-boy]

Maybe not, but we do know an awful lot about how the state behaves in such situations. Have you ever heard of COINTELPRO or do you think that the very mention of that acronym signifies an adherence to some sort of 'conspiracy theory'?

Just because I raise an issue with Wikileaks does not automatically mean that I have none with how States behave.

This is exactly the sort of fuckwittedness that makes this place so fucking annoying ...

 

[Squatticus]

This is exactly the sort of fuckwittedness that makes this place so fucking annoying ...

Don't come here then?

 

[audiotech]

Julian Assange, in hiding at a secret location being leaked I could see being interpreted in so many ways.

 

[detective-boy]

Julian Assange, in hiding at a secret location being leaked I could see being interpreted in so many ways.

But we have the right to know ...

 

[FridgeMagnet]

edit: actually what a complete waste of fucking time engaging on that argument would be

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Extraordinary poll results. It continually surprises that opinions which are so mainstream, so centrist, make me an outlier here.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It is a silly poll question, of course, but you're not claiming that the general opinion held by Actual People is that Wikileaks is a bad thing and should be shut down, surely?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You believe they are villains. Have you looked at anything on wikileaks – the war logs, or the videos from US helicopters?

We all know that the US/UK are killing indiscriminately in Iraq/Afghanistan, or at least we should know. Wikileaks is providing proof.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

It is a silly poll question, of course, but you're not claiming that the general opinion held by Actual People is that Wikileaks is a bad thing and should be shut down, surely?

Isn't it? What sort of Actual People are we talking about? You'd need a certain level of interest in the news to have an opinion, of course. I still encounter people who conflate it with Wikipedia.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

I think anybody who has an anarchic outlook on life will like Assange because he is just sticking 2 fingers up at those that rule the world but unfortunately the internet is not the radical, out there place it once was. The internet is now mainstream & part of the fabric of society & Assange must by now know he has gone too far.

I think his future is in his own hands. If he now quietly disappears(even if wikileaks dosen't)he will be ok. If he continues to cause trouble they will arrest him & send him to Sweden or summat worse. Good luck to the bloke tho, he has provided great entertainment for those of us who generally lead quiet, boring lives.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

You believe they are villains. Have you looked at anything on wikileaks – the war logs, or the videos from US helicopters?

We all know that the US/UK are killing indiscriminately in Iraq/Afghanistan, or at least we should know. Wikileaks is providing proof.

Yes, of course I've looked at it all. I am very unsure what Britain's best interests are in the whole mess, but I don't think that "providing proof" is helpful to them.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Isn't it? What sort of Actual People are we talking about? You'd need a certain level of interest in the news to have an opinion, of course. I still encounter people who conflate it with Wikipedia.

Isn't it what, a bad thing that should be shut down? No. Personally I've not had a vast number of conversations about Wikileaks but the ones that I _have_ had have generally had the theme "ha ha, the lying bastards don't like it up 'em" when any opinion is expressed at all. Perhaps this is my famous Socialist Mind Control Ray activating again.

 

[audiotech]

Some being oh so predictable.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, of course I've looked at it all. I am very unsure what Britain's best interests are in the whole mess, but I don't think that "providing proof" is helpful to them.

What do you mean by 'Britain's best interests'? I reject the concept of 'national interest'. Normally when it is invoked, this means 'the interests of the rich and powerful', which very often run counter to the interests of the majority.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

I reject the concept of 'national interest'. .

Bully for you. Out There, where Fridgemagnet's Actual People gambol and opine, that would be an extreme and unusual position to take.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bully for you. Out There, where Fridgemagnet's Actual People gambol and opine, that would be an extreme and unusual position to take.

Even if that's true, so what? How about you define what you mean by 'Britain's best interests'?

 

[Streathamite]

Yes, of course I've looked at it all. I am very unsure what Britain's best interests are in the whole mess, but I don't think that "providing proof" is helpful to them.

what on earth makes you think the State's best interests, and those of the ruling class, are the same as mine's?

 

[SaskiaJayne]

They have now got a European warrant to arrest Assange, its rekoned once he is in Sweden he will end up in the US. I hope his mates keep him well hid, good luck to him.

 

[weltweit]

I think the leak of strategic assets just might be going too far for me.

It is a target list for terrorists, whatever else it may be.

I think it may be a leak too far.

 

[detective-boy]

I hope his mates keep him well hid, good luck to him.

But if anyone knows where he is and passes it to Wikileaks they'll have to publish it ...

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Assange has now been arrested.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

How do other Wikileaks activists view Assange? A bit of a limelight liability when carrying out their own work?

 

[moon23]

How do other Wikileaks activists view Assange? A bit of a limelight liability when carrying out their own work?

It's difficult, they could have operated without a front man and only given statements through lawyers. Personally I think they should have released tapes with a masked leak avenger type giving statements.

 

[moon23]

I think the leak of strategic assets just might be going too far for me.

It is a target list for terrorists, whatever else it may be.

I think it may be a leak too far.

It seems very provocative, does Assange want a confrontation? Perhaps he has a martyr complex? It seems plausible that Wikileaks is now being used as a communications channel for Intelligence services. So who knows who is leaking what or for what purposes anymore.

 

[Spymaster]

The war logs are the heroic bit, imo. Publishing the video of the butchering of 12 Iraqis from Helicopter fire is a huge service to the world.

No it isn't. What possible service does it do anyone to simply confirm what everyone knows has happened anyway? There have been videos of US gunships killing people doing the rounds on the internet for years.

I'm reserving judgement on this Assange fellow for a while. What does he want out of this? If it's just to create a shitstorm, then he's succeeded, but I can't see any genuine good coming from what Wikileaks have done other than providing us all with a bit of entertainment at the expense of some unpopular people and governments. The fact that other Arab states have urged the US to whack Iran might have consequences, but little else will come as a surprise to any but the most naive.

Some of the more recently leaked information may be marginally useful to lazy terrorists who haven't done their homework but again, it's of limited value and nothing to get anyone's knickers in a twist over.

Lefties like him because he's "sticking it to the man" but to be honest until I know more about him, Assange seems like a bit of an attention seeking twat who may also be a sex-case, so I'm not joining the bum-rush.

 

[detective-boy]

Lefties like him because he's "sticking it to the man" but to be honest until I know more about him, Assange seems like a bit of an attention seeking twat who may also be a sex-case, so I'm not joining the bum-rush.