Why Labour are Scum

[Sue]

My great uncle got sent to one of those.

Interesting. Did you ever get the chance to talk to him about it?

(I really regret not talking about interesting polotical/historical stuff with elderly relatives while they were still alive -- by the time I was interested in such things, they were dead or not capable of discussing/remembering them.)

 

[Wilf]

Interesting. Did you ever get the chance to talk to him about it?

(I really regret not talking about interesting polotical/historical stuff with elderly relatives while they were still alive -- by the time I was interested in such things, they were dead or not capable of discussing/remembering them.)

Never spoke to him directly, but his brother - my Grandad- said it had traumatised him. Ironically he - the great uncle - drew the wrong lessons from the experience. Even though he never had any money, hated the Tories and voted Labour all his life, he apparently thought the worst bit of the experience was being sent to the camp and having to be with kids who had no skills and 'never amounted to anything' (he was a cabinet maker). Don't want to over politicise his position - he was a bit of a prick to be honest - but he saw himself as 'labour aristocracy' and being sent to the camp undermined that. Their mum went hungry in the 30s, to the point of collapsing in the street so she could feed the kids and they had all the indiginities of the social telling them to sell sticks of furniture. My granddad always remembered that, and it made him who he was in life.

 

[redsquirrel]

Not seen it mentioned elsewhere but Akehurst states that yesterday's at NEC meeting

Despite one speech against, the NEC unanimously voted to ban Labour councils from setting illegal budgets, which had been one of the key tactics of the municipal Hard Left in the 1980s heyday of Derek Hatton and John McDonnell.

So Labour councils are going to continue to attack services.

 

[voiceofreason88]

theres no greater economic crisis than when a labour government gets elected.

 

[DrRingDing]

theres no greater economic crisis than when a labour government gets elected.

'88' voice of reason

 

[two sheds]

theres no greater economic crisis than when a labour government gets elected.

only labour governments tend to end their term with a lower balance of payments deficit than do the tories

so you seem to be talking shit

 

[voiceofreason88]

im not sure what you mean. but labour create debt, sell all the countries gold (wealth) at the lowest possible price, spend spend spend other peoples money then have to tax tax tax to try and get it back. Just look at history its repeated itself again and again. but with any luck labour wont get in ever again scotlands snp, wales pc and half of english voters are now ukip.

 

[two sheds]

while the tories cut taxes for the rich, let them hide their money offshore without paying any tax, cut-cut-cut from the poor and tax-tax-tax the poor to get it all back. Just look at history it's repeated itself again and again. Agree with you they're unlikely to get in what with all that and the gerrymandering. You'll be delighted with tories from here on in then.

do you not understand 'balance of payments deficit'?

 

[voiceofreason88]

it was a labour government that set up the caymen islands tax havens lol. im working class and when labour was in my tax went up every year as soon as tories got in i got a tool allowance back in my pay. which is alot more than labour ever did for me.

 

[ViolentPanda]

theres no greater economic crisis than when a labour government gets elected.

Fuck off, whinger-boy.

 

[ViolentPanda]

it was a labour government that set up the caymen islands tax havens lol. im working class and when labour was in my tax went up every year as soon as tories got in i got a tool allowance back in my pay. which is alot more than labour ever did for me.

Unsurprising you got a tool allowance.

 

[ViolentPanda]

im not sure what you mean. but labour create debt, sell all the countries gold (wealth) at the lowest possible price, spend spend spend other peoples money then have to tax tax tax to try and get it back. Just look at history its repeated itself again and again. but with any luck labour wont get in ever again scotlands snp, wales pc and half of english voters are now ukip.

You obviously haven't looked at history, or you'd know that you're talking bollocks, as well as being a fantasist who massively exaggerates UKIP's voter base.

 

[tim]

it was a labour government that set up the caymen islands tax havens lol. im working class and when labour was in my tax went up every year as soon as tories got in i got a tool allowance back in my pay. which is alot more than labour ever did for me.

No use to those of us who aren't tools

 

[voiceofreason88]

im new to this site but hope theres people who can try and compete with me with proper discussion. peace out dudes

 

[voiceofreason88]

You obviously haven't looked at history, or you'd know that you're talking bollocks, as well as being a fantasist who massively exaggerates UKIP's voter base.

what part of what ive said is incorrect. ill admit if im wrong.

 

[ViolentPanda]

what part of what ive said is incorrect. ill admit if im wrong.

No you won't, you'll quibble and make excuses, still...

Labour didn't create the debt left for the Tories in 2010, a worldwide financial crisis did. Labour (and Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling specifically) probably did more to put the brakes on the economy crashing that most of the bankers and the Tories combined, by stopping more banks doing a Northern Rock.

Labour didn't "sell the country's gold at the lowest possible price". The reserves were sold at the bottom of the market - an unprecedentedly-long dip in the market. Effectively the reserves weren't earning their keep. If an asset makes no dividend, you get rid - commerce 101.

The English electorate is currently around 21 million people. UKIP at their highest have only managed 4.5 million voters - in Euro-elections. So, "half" is bollocks, "less than 25%" is more accurate.

 

[voiceofreason88]

gordan brown deregulated all the banks so they could do what they did and then blamed them after it failed but years before was taking credit for it before it crashed. we wouldnt of gone into a recession if he hadnt of sold all the countries gold nobody or country in the right mind sells there assets like that but labour had to did because theyd spent all the money and had already exhausted the popular labour tax options. and ye abit of a exaggeration with half of voters but alot in my area always forever been labour and ukip almost got in.

 

[two sheds]

and ..... breathe

 

[Calamity1971]

and use the space bar alot... a lot

 

[redsquirrel]

while the tories cut taxes for the rich, let them hide their money offshore without paying any tax, cut-cut-cut from the poor and tax-tax-tax the poor to get it all back. Just look at history it's repeated itself again and again. Agree with you they're unlikely to get in what with all that and the gerrymandering. You'll be delighted with tories from here on in then.

do you not understand 'balance of payments deficit'?

Ignore the moron, let's concentrate on the substantive point.

You're a Labour member are you happy with the NECs decision? Are you happy with Labour councils closing libraries? And if not what are you going to do to stop them?

 

[two sheds]

and no and no

 

[Nylock]

theres no greater economic crisis than when a labour government gets elected.

unsruprising trope.

im not sure what you mean. but labour create debt, sell all the countries gold (wealth) at the lowest possible price, spend spend spend other peoples money then have to tax tax tax to try and get it back.

another unsurprising trope.

Just look at history its repeated itself again and again. but with any luck labour wont get in ever again scotlands snp, wales pc and half of english voters are now ukip.

numerically illiterate bullshit.

im working class and when labour was in my tax went up every year as soon as tories got in i got a tool allowance back in my pay. which is alot more than labour ever did for me.

...under which tory govt were you awarded this 'tool allowance'?

im new to this site but hope theres people who can try and compete with me with proper discussion. peace out dudes

oh dear... quiet night on the student rooms forums?

gordan brown deregulated all the banks so they could do what they did and then blamed them after it failed but years before was taking credit for it before it crashed. we wouldnt of gone into a recession if he hadnt of sold all the countries gold nobody or country in the right mind sells there assets like that but labour had to did because theyd spent all the money and had already exhausted the popular labour tax options. and ye abit of a exaggeration with half of voters but alot in my area always forever been labour and ukip almost got in.

hard to know where to even begin with this but it's essentially more of the same nonsense but with an extra layer of deluded waffle.

Fuck's sake... They're not even trying all that hard anymore, are they?

 

[CNT36]

Quiet night on the student rooms? More likely too chicken shit for Storm front.

 

[Pickman's model]

14/88: fail

gordan brown deregulated all the banks so they could do what they did and then blamed them after it failed but years before was taking credit for it before it crashed. we wouldnt of gone into a recession if he hadnt of sold all the countries gold nobody or country in the right mind sells there assets like that but labour had to did because theyd spent all the money and had already exhausted the popular labour tax options. and ye abit of a exaggeration with half of voters but alot in my area always forever been labour and ukip almost got in.

 

[ViolentPanda]

gordan brown deregulated all the banks so they could do what they did and then blamed them after it failed but years before was taking credit for it before it crashed.

Wrong. The banks were deregulated already. What Brown did was refrain from re-regulating, and decided to take a "light hand" on policing existing rules.

we wouldnt of gone into a recession if he hadnt of sold all the countries gold nobody or country in the right mind sells there assets like that but labour had to did because theyd spent all the money and had already exhausted the popular labour tax options.

Wrong again. Our gold reserves were just about equivalent to a couple of days losses during the financial crisis. They'd have made fuck-all difference. This is basic arithmetic.
As for selling assets, if a market is stagnant for a long time, any investor - smart or dumb - will sell, rather than holding on and hoping for a price rise. As I said, Commerce 101.

and ye abit of a exaggeration with half of voters but alot in my area always forever been labour and ukip almost got in.

And...? Unless and until UKIP build up a history of doing so, the fact that they may have "almost got in" in your area is more indicative of a protest vote than a swing to the right. If UKIP sustain those numbers in later elections you MIGHT have a point.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ignore the moron, let's concentrate on the substantive point.

You're a Labour member are you happy with the NECs decision? Are you happy with Labour councils closing libraries? And if not what are you going to do to stop them?

I'm appalled by the NEC's decision, but not at all surprised. I've been pressing local councillors about setting an illegal budget for the last couple of years, and the craven replies I've heard, led me to believe that any "moderate", and any Labour Party member with an iota of careerism in them, WILL NOT go for setting an illegal budget.

The appalling thing is why: because it would affect their career; because it would drain the reserves; because it would let central government in.

Those are all excuses councillors have actually used to me! None of them grasped that if they set an illegal budget and the DCLG sent in a team of goons to run the borough, they'd almost immediately be faced with an intractable set of issues around service provision funding, and would not be able to operate inside of budgetary restraints AND provide a service, thus showing up the whole issue setting an illegal budget as an excuse to avoid civic and government debt, and revealing that setting an illegal budget - within acceptable limits - could provide impetus to promote services, not just fund them.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Wrong. The banks were deregulated already. What Brown did was refrain from re-regulating, and decided to take a "light hand" on policing existing rules.

and of course, right up to the moment the shit hit the fan, the tories were calling for less regulation of the financial sector...

 

[two sheds]

Ignore the moron, let's concentrate on the substantive point.

You're a Labour member are you happy with the NECs decision? Are you happy with Labour councils closing libraries? And if not what are you going to do to stop them?

Aha *that* NEC decision.

Someone here posted a link to this: Renewal | Matthew Brown, Martin O’Neill | The Road to Socialism is the A59: The Preston Model

which I think has some great ideas in.

I'd like to see councils getting more income from (for example) using spare land as charged car parking to siphon off some of the profits that private car parks are getting. I'd like to see Councils compulsorily purchasing land for building on and retaining the profits within the council rather than have them siphoned off to private companies again. In Cornwall I'd like to see them set x3 the council tax for second homes.

If you do those sorts of things and the government tries to stop you then I think you'd get much better reaction from residents than setting an illegal budget and have a tory hit squad come in and take over. Then, you're going to be seen as acting irresponsibly and caring more about making a political point than caring for people.

What happens to, say, housing benefit payments if a council sets an illegal budget? Aren't landlords just going to throw out their housing benefit tenants if the rents aren't paid? Council workers being sent home or being sent their P45s in a taxi?

I'm willing to be persuaded on this, though - what's happened before when a council's set an illegal budget?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Aha *that* NEC decision.

Someone here posted a link to this: Renewal | Matthew Brown, Martin O’Neill | The Road to Socialism is the A59: The Preston Model

which I think has some great ideas in.

I'd like to see councils getting more income from (for example) using spare land as charged car parking to siphon off some of the profits that private car parks are getting. I'd like to see Councils compulsorily purchasing land for building on and retaining the profits within the council rather than have them siphoned off to private companies again. In Cornwall I'd like to see them set x3 the council tax for second homes.

If you do those sorts of things and the government tries to stop you then I think you'd get much better reaction from residents than setting an illegal budget and have a tory hit squad come in and take over. Then, you're going to be seen as acting irresponsibly and caring more about making a political point than caring for people.

What happens to, say, housing benefit payments if a council sets an illegal budget? Aren't landlords just going to throw out their housing benefit tenants if the rents aren't paid? Council workers being sent home or being sent their P45s in a taxi?

I'm willing to be persuaded on this, though - what's happened before when a council's set an illegal budget?

Most councils haven't set "illegal" budgets for over 30 years, due to legislation to stop them doing so. That said, The illegality was in setting an annual budget higher than the year's projected rates income, and the legislation took no account of other finance streams. The result of setting an illegal rate was surcharge of the councillors responsible, their banning from any political office, and (unofficially) auditing and persecution of the local authority involved.

The penalties now are different, insofar as surcharging is no longer an issue, but the fear of being banned from political office is much more of a prophylactic against it happening now, than it was then, as councillors are so much more careerist and - dare I say it - middle class than they were 30 years ago. For about 25% of the councillors in Lambeth, their position is a stepping stone to regional or national government.

By the way, setting an illegal budget would not affect services (such as they are) or administration (such as Housing Benefit), it'd merely trigger the insertion of a Ministry-picked team of tossers to take over some of the functions of the councillors and officers, and to scrutinise how and why an illegal budget was set.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I'm willing to be persuaded on this, though - what's happened before when a council's set an illegal budget?

in 1921 it ended up with poplar borough council meetings being held in brixton clink (more here)

now, it would need to be co-ordinated to stop councils / councillors being picked off one by one.

and of course the tory press would delight in stories about labour tax & spend / spending money they haven't got / leading councils in to bankruptcy and so on...