Why Labour are Scum

[Pickman's model]

They have no knowledge of the lives of people on benefit - it's based on Channel 5 "I get benefits for my 35 kids so I don't need to work a day in my life" bollocks

yet you'd have us vote for this shower

 

[teqniq]

yet you'd have us vote for this shower

Heh, absolutely no chance.

 

[Pickman's model]

Heh, absolutely no chance.

yeh, neither his miserable powers of persuasion nor the abysmal nature of the party an enticement

 

[andysays]

Some people seem to think it's "aspirational" to look at the poor like shit on the bottom of your shoe. At least it's beginning to be challenged within the PLP - even if a substantial section of the leadership seems to think it's ok to demonise people for no other reason than being poor.

Let's just repeat that shall we:

At least it's beginning to be challenged within the Parliamentary Labour Party

And I suppose we should all be grateful to those few Labour MPs who are finally (allegedly/apparently) beginning to challenge it should we? How the fuck can you justify your support, on any level, for the Labour Party, while still coming out with glib nonsense like this?

 

[ViolentPanda]

How the fuck can you justify your support, on any level, for the Labour Party, while still coming out with glib nonsense like this?

Years of training.

 

[articul8]

It's the Harmans, Hunts and their ilk that don't speak for the Labour party in the country.

 

[J Ed]

It's the Harmans, Hunts and their ilk that don't speak for the Labour party in the country.

Is it? I know a a Labour spad who went straight from uni to politics and he loves the idea of English Labour or whatever and thought that Ed Miliband was too left-wing. These days if I meet a young peson in the Labour Party who has views to the left of that then I am surprised.

 

[articul8]

Is it? I know a a Labour spad who went straight from uni to politics and he loves the idea of English Labour or whatever and thought that Ed Miliband was too left-wing. These days if I meet a young peson in the Labour Party who has views to the left of that then I am surprised.

there are a bunch of cunts in and around at that kind of level - also young councillors. But in terms of lay members, union members, people who want a proper Labour party to vote for - there's enormous frustration and anger that the this they just don't get it.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's the Harmans, Hunts and their ilk that don't speak for the Labour party in the country.

but they do speak for the metropolitan labour lot i suppose.

 

[andysays]

Years of training.

Years of brainwashing, more like

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's the Harmans, Hunts and their ilk that don't speak for the Labour party in the country.

That much is blatantly obvious. The question is why?

The answer, quite simply, is that the party's procedures and rules were changed during Blair's tenure as leader, in order to remove internal party democracy from the agenda. Blair has been gone for 8 years, and yet although there's some grass roots activism around party democracy, there's fuck-all higher up the ladder. A cynic might wonder why.

 

[ViolentPanda]

double post

 

[ViolentPanda]

Years of brainwashing, more like

That lets him off the hook.

 

[ViolentPanda]

there are a bunch of cunts in and around at that kind of level - also young councillors. But in terms of lay members, union members, people who want a proper Labour party to vote for - there's enormous frustration and anger that the this they just don't get it.

I'm sorry, but that's bollocks. The party very much does get it, but as those party members have no mechanisms by which to sanction the higher-ups of the party, the movers, shakers, wonks and gonks don't have to worry about what the lay membership thinks about or cares about.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm sorry, but that's bollocks. The party very much does get it, but as those party members have no mechanisms by which to sanction the higher-ups of the party, the movers, shakers, wonks and gonks don't have to worry about what the lay membership thinks about or cares about.

which is why so many people have left that nefandous party

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

With so many zealous, corrupt and fundamentalist policy ideas eminating from government at the moment it makes me wonder where Labour will find the time to do nothing about all of them.

 

[Pickman's model]

With so many zealous, corrupt and fundamentalist policy ideas eminating from government at the moment it makes me wonder where Labour will find the time to do nothing about all of them.

they won't do nothing. they'll actively support a lot of it.

 

[red & green]

There is no point whatsoever looking to the lab party to oppose current gangsters in power. Not going to happen

 

[brogdale]

Welcome to (grand) coalition parliamentary politics.

As low as vermin.

 

[brogdale]

 

[nino_savatte]

48 Labour MPs defied the whip. The others abstained and voted for their shite amendment.

Is Harman working for the Tories?

 

[8115]

48 Labour MPs defied the whip. The others abstained and voted for their shite amendment.

Is Harman working for the Tories?

No, she's just doing her best Mr Bean impression, along with many of the leadership candidates. I honestly don't know what's going on. I think they're scared of being in government again.

 

[Tony_LeaS]

48 Labour MPs defied the whip. The others abstained and voted for their shite amendment.

Is Harman working for the Tories?

Better question is why isnt Harman actually declared her soul to the Tory devil?

I sit and watch the news day by day now and realise the Labour Party doesnt exist anymore.

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[treelover]

What a guy!

 

[redsquirrel]

Labour rebels

Diane Abbott
Debbie Abrahams
David Anderson
Richard Burgon
Dawn Butler
Ann Clwyd
Jeremy Corbyn
Geraint Davies
Peter Dowd
Paul Flynn
Mary Glindon
Roger Godsiff
Helen Goodman
Margaret Greenwood
Louise Haigh
Carolyn Harris
Sue Hayman
Imran Hussain
Gerald Jones
Helen Jones
Sir Gerald Kaufman
Sadiq Khan
David Lammy
Ian Lavery
Clive Lewis
Rebecca Long Bailey
Andy McDonald
John McDonnell
Liz McInnes
Rob Marris
Rachael Maskell
Michael Meacher
Ian Mearns
Madeleine Moon
Grahame Morris
Kate Osamor
Teresa Pearce
Marie Rimmer
Paula Sherriff
Tulip Siddiq
Dennis Skinner
Cat Smith
Jo Stevens
Graham Stringer
David Winnick
Iain Wright
Daniel Zeichner
Kelvin Hopkins (Teller)


EDIT : List of nominations of Labour MPs in leadership and dep leadership contests in case anyone wants to cross-reference.

 

[stethoscope]

Damn, fell asleep before the vote came through. Good on the 48 for 'rebelling', but what a truly sorry state of affairs.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Gerald Kaufman is still there is he? He must be about 96 by now.

Surprised to Sadiq Khan amongst the rebels too, I thought he was well dug in with the Blairite lot. He's running for mayor of London though isn't he, so maybe he wants to put 'opposed welfare cuts' on his campaign flyers.

 

[danny la rouge]

OK, so here's a thing. Labour's whipped abstention means that a government majority of 12 was turned into a majority of 184 on this vote. However the government vote was only 308, which means that arithmetically Labour abstainers could have brought the bill down by voting against.

Tories and Labour apologists are saying that some Labour MPs were paired, but I have some niggles about that: first, I had thought that pairs agreed to both stay away from the Chamber (not that your pair sat on his/her hands on the opposite bench). So how many Labour MPs were in the chamber to physically abstain? (Remember there was a weak, cowardly Labour amendment vote first). Secondly, the SNP MP Tommy Sheppard (admittedly a very new MP) says that you pair an Aye against a No to cancel a vote out, not an Aye against an abstain. Logically that sounds right, but is it? Was there "pairing" last night?

This chat of pairing is basically a Labour apologists' weasel device, because they should have voted against, but I'd be interested to see if they are wrong as well as devious, treacherous weasels.

 

[belboid]

Secondly, the SNP MP Tommy Sheppard (admittedly a very new MP) says that you pair an Aye against a No to cancel a vote out, not an Aye against an abstain. Logically that sounds right, but is it? Was there "pairing" last night?

It may sound right, but it isn't. Pairs simply agree to both not vote. Whilst it would usually be a Yes/No split there's no reason why it couldn't be a Yes/Abstain or whatever.