Why Conspiracy Theorists are so prevalent.

[taffboy gwyrdd]

The short answer to your question would be "yes" FW, but I honestly don't think I said "bloodline bankers", certainly I said "bloodline" though. I doubt very much I would now for the reasons you say. There are other less provocative ways of saying the same thing, but I see the phenomena as less relevant than perhaps I did. But if knowledge and power are passed down through generations, well that's no shock and nothing to do with faith/ethnicity.

I have mentioned the rothschilds, again their faith and ethnicity are neither here nor there to me. There are a plethora of people involved in finance skullduggery who don't share those characteristics. What matters to me is behaviour, wealth, power, secrecy, democracy, accountability, ecology, poverty, corruption, stuff like that.

Faith is something that fascinates me elsewise, but it's rather an esoteric and large subject to get into right here.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

this is a loose translation for "someone talking the their time to consider my bullshit".

Wrong.

this means he got a whole paragraph in response and this is more worthy of his attention.

Wrong.

 

[Buckaroo]

The short answer to your question would be "yes" FW, but I honestly don't think I said "bloodline bankers", certainly I said "bloodline" though. I doubt very much I would now for the reasons you say. There are other less provocative ways of saying the same thing, but I see the phenomena as less relevant than perhaps I did. But if knowledge and power are passed down through generations, well that's no shock and nothing to do with faith/ethnicity.

I have mentioned the rothschilds, again their faith and ethnicity are neither here nor there to me. There are a plethora of people involved in finance skullduggery who don't share those characteristics. What matters to me is behaviour, wealth, power, secrecy, democracy, accountability, ecology, poverty, corruption, stuff like that.

It's the way you tell 'em.

 

[frogwoman]

taffboy gwyrdd well i found a post from you where you use the term

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/is-david-cameron-middle-class.195114/#post-6851506

if you've changed your position since then fair enough but you always seem to want to make conspiracies into something that should be looked at with a more open mind, even though their provenance has been discussed on here quite frequently

 

[frogwoman]

i don't know why you don't seem to get this. there's nothing wrong with trying to stop the spread of conspiracy theory or challenge the conditions that lead to it rather than just straight up calling people nazis or whatever, for example identify why people might believe in this stuff - the same approach that i'd advocate for the edl rather than just laughing and calling people stupid and taking the piss out of their spelling or whatever.

i'm not trying to "accuse you falsely" i'm saying this on the basis of posts you've made on here where you always try and act as an apologist for conspiracy theorists and say that people need to not write it off immediately and endorse some other loon shit. i may be a bit sensitive to this sort of stuff but i've been on the receiving end of this sort of shit in the past from people as have members of my family and other people i know.

i honestly don't see someone like spivey or david icke as any better than tommy robinson, on that basis i don't think that people should be giving any credence to their ideas whatsoever, especially people who consider themselves socialists or whatever, it's basically the EDL for hipsters, it actually amazes that people don't see it

 

[andysays]

...it's basically the EDL for hipsters...

I love that!! It's up there with the description of UKIP as the BNP for people who shop at M&S

 

[el-ahrairah]

, it's basically the EDL for hipsters, it actually amazes that people don't see it

i read that as "EDL for hamsters" which would be kind of awesome. though as any fule kno, hamsters are resolutely libertarian

 

[Fozzie Bear]

this means he got a whole paragraph in response and this is more worthy of his attention.

Yes, that's interesting. Quantity seems more important than quality in the CT world. (No disrespect to froggie and her posts tho!)

Lots and lots of data and speculation, if you are one of the chosen few with the time and inclination.

 

[frogwoman]

the chosen few

 

[Buckaroo]

Yes, that's interesting. Quantity seems more important than quality in the CT world. (No disrespect to froggie and her posts tho!)

Lots and lots of data and speculation, if you are one of the chosen few with the time and inclination.

FFS

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Well it's a self-selecting "chosen" tbf.

(There's a general point here about CT people identifying elites as a problem but also thinking they are one. Apologies for bad wording though.)

 

[frogwoman]

 

[frogwoman]

Well it's a self-selecting "chosen" tbf.

(There's a general point here about CT people identifying elites as a problem but also thinking they are one. Apologies for bad wording though.)

They do think they're an elite yeah. And no worries

 

[frogwoman]

Yes, that's interesting. Quantity seems more important than quality in the CT world. (No disrespect to froggie and her posts tho!)

Lots and lots of data and speculation, if you are one of the chosen few with the time and inclination.

yeah, i don't write this stuff for him though. i do it for anyone who may be reading these boards for the first time or looking for info on how to answer this shit or whether some claims are really real or whatever.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

taffboy gwyrdd well i found a post from you where you use the term

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/is-david-cameron-middle-class.195114/#post-6851506

if you've changed your position since then fair enough but you always seem to want to make conspiracies into something that should be looked at with a more open mind, even though their provenance has been discussed on here quite frequently

Fair enough. And yes, I wouldn't put things like that now, more for the obvious problematic nature you describe than actual accuracy. But I certainly apologise for any offence caused by that, without reservation.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

i don't know why you don't seem to get this. there's nothing wrong with trying to stop the spread of conspiracy theory or challenge the conditions that lead to it rather than just straight up calling people nazis or whatever, for example identify why people might believe in this stuff - the same approach that i'd advocate for the edl rather than just laughing and calling people stupid and taking the piss out of their spelling or whatever.

i'm not trying to "accuse you falsely" i'm saying this on the basis of posts you've made on here where you always try and act as an apologist for conspiracy theorists and say that people need to not write it off immediately and endorse some other loon shit. i may be a bit sensitive to this sort of stuff but i've been on the receiving end of this sort of shit in the past from people as have members of my family and other people i know.

i honestly don't see someone like spivey or david icke as any better than tommy robinson, on that basis i don't think that people should be giving any credence to their ideas whatsoever, especially people who consider themselves socialists or whatever, it's basically the EDL for hipsters, it actually amazes that people don't see it

I actually have no idea who spivey is. People certainly use "zionism" as cover for "jew" in a parallel way to which many use "muslim" as cover for "(south) asian" - it's not an exact parallel but it's there.

Upthread you asked if it told be anything about certain CTs that Jew-hate twats latch on to them, but what it tells me most is that people who buy into the overarching, false and offensive "jews run everything" CT latch on to anything to crowbar their obsession in to it.

I've been challenging them vigourously for a while, but they tend not to get back on it, are patronising when they do. I can't be arsed to go somewhere like the Icke forums to discuss it but I would like to write something on it at some point and may speak to you about it further if that would be ok.

Again, there is a a parallel with more bog standard racists - any discussion about employment or housing on places like "Politics UK" on FB will probably get someone moaning about immigration within 5 minutes. What does that tell me about the issues of housing and employment? Nothing really, it tells me that people with a hatred seek to vent it at the earliest opportunity.

I don't see the anti Jew stuff as more "hip" than EDL type stuff for what it's worth. In my experience it's just as crass and ill informed.

 

[frogwoman]

Fair enough. And yes, I wouldn't put things like that now, more for the obvious problematic nature you describe than actual accuracy. But I certainly apologise for any offence caused by that, without reservation.

what do you mean accuracy?

do you still think those descriptions are accurate?

 

[frogwoman]

it would be fine to speak to me about it yes. although i have gone over this rather a lot ...

 

[Buckaroo]

I actually have no idea who spivey is. People certainly use "zionism" as cover for "jew" in a parallel way to which many use "muslim" as cover for "(south) asian" - it's not an exact parallel but it's there.

Upthread you asked if it told be anything about certain CTs that Jew-hate twats latch on to them, but what it tells me most is that people who buy into the overarching, false and offensive "jews run everything" CT latch on to anything to crowbar their obsession in to it.

I've been challenging them vigourously for a while, but they tend not to get back on it, are patronising when they do. I can't be arsed to go somewhere like the Icke forums to discuss it but I would like to write something on it at some point and may speak to you about it further if that would be ok.

Again, there is a a parallel with more bog standard racists - any discussion about employment or housing on places like "Politics UK" on FB will probably get someone moaning about immigration within 5 minutes. What does that tell me about the issues of housing and employment? Nothing really, it tells me that people with a hatred seek to vent it at the earliest opportunity.

I don't see the anti Jew stuff as more "hip" than EDL type stuff for what it's worth. In my experience it's just as crass and ill informed.

'anti Jew stuff.' Please fuck off with that stuff.

 

[frogwoman]

i said the edl for hipsters because they are all at things like that fucking Bilderberg Fringe festival, it seems to be quite prevalent at the rave scenes etc.

if you talk about a banking conspiracy where the conspirators are also poisoning poisoning the water (adding fluoride to it), sacrificing kids, and control the world through weird secret esoteric knowledge thats been passed down through history, and that these conspirators actually financed world war 1 and 2, well its not surprising that people will try and crowbar the fucking jews into it is it, because that is the sort of thing that we are always accused of. it's quite obvious that it's about jews and they don't even have to be mentioned.

you need to seriously think about your political positions and why if your not racist that it seems to be a position that's shared by so many racists

 

[frogwoman]

this is a Nazi propaganda film from the 40s about the rothschilds, this is why protestations that its not about the jews sound like bollocks, because it usually is, and the "non racist" conspiraloons that say their views are "nothing to do with jews" seem to coexist quite happily with naked anti-semitism (and increasingly, homophobia as well)

this stuff has a very long history taffboy, as i said before you may not be personally anti-semitic but these theories originate from the fascist far right, and if people dismiss it out of hand its either because it's bollocks (which it is) or because they're upset by it

i don't think this sort of shit is acceptable, it is divisive and racist, and it is at best a distraction.

and it doesn't really have much to do with religious observance, these cunts think i am scum on the basis of my "blood" regardless of what i believe about anything, they can go fuck themselves, and fuck anyone trying to make their ideas acceptable.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

what do you mean accuracy?

do you still think those descriptions are accurate?

Reading "bloodline" as "dynasty"...well it happens to be a dynasty, yes.

As for the longer reply mentioning other conspiracies : Some carry more weight than others, but that is not the basis on which a "Jews to blame" CTer would wish to crowbar their analysis in. Like I said, they will do that on anything. Seen them do it. They are in on anything economic and the fracking stuff now too, I'm afraid it's likely to get far beyond the BBerg protests.

Should I review my stance on global banking fraud because the haters try and hijack it? No, I should tackle the haters head on with their dangerous, stupid and offensive distractions. I do, and I aim to step it up.

I'm not surprised anti semitism has little to do with religious observance btw. Outside nazi style occultists, theology and spirituality would not be a strong point with such people unless it was perhaps for show.

 

[frogwoman]

Reading "bloodline" as "dynasty"...well it happens to be a dynasty, yes.

As for the longer reply mentioning other conspiracies : Some carry more weight than others, but that is not the basis on which a "Jews to blame" CTer would wish to crowbar their analysis in. Like I said, they will do that on anything. Seen them do it. They are in on anything economic and the fracking stuff now too, I'm afraid it's likely to get far beyond the BBerg protests.

Should I review my stance on global banking fraud because the haters try and hijack it? No, I should tackle the haters head on with their dangerous, stupid and offensive distractions. I do, and I aim to step it up.

I'm not surprised anti semitism has little to do with religious observance btw. Outside nazi style occultists, theology and spirituality would not be a strong point with such people unless it was perhaps for show.

you do need to review your stance if the people who share that stance are coming from the position of the far right yes.

i'm quite happy to talk to you about this stuff if you're wriitng something but i and half the p and p forum have actually been trying to point all this out for years so ...

 

[smokedout]

Fair enough. And yes, I wouldn't put things like that now, more for the obvious problematic nature you describe than actual accuracy. But I certainly apologise for any offence caused by that, without reservation.

sorry, I'll hide it better next time

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

sorry, I'll hide it better next time

Wrong.

as has been put to me numerous times, there are certain phrases that are evocative of poison. I accept that and apologise.

There can be debate about some terms e.g I don't see a problem with talking about "global finance capital" (It's global capital that is distinctly not to do with production) but others clearly do, and I've argued with them on the point.

But "bloodline banker" is not a phrase I should of used. Mea Culpa for certain. No issue saying that.

Now, if I had used the accurate and wiser "banking dynasty" people might still have jumped on me for using "code", because the purport ends up being one of "heads I win. Tails you lose".

(remember, the circumstance described was a very weird looking meeting involving quite a few other people whose ethnicity and profession did not coincide with the bloke I was on about.)

You talk about hiding "it"?

What is "it"? and where is your evidence for "it"?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

you do need to review your stance if the people who share that stance are coming from the position of the far right yes.

i'm quite happy to talk to you about this stuff if you're writng something but i and half the p and p forum have actually been trying to point all this out for years so ...

I review my stances anyhow. People who purport to share a lot of stances can come from the far right, because they are chameleons and opportunists.

If I was writing something it wouldn't just be this stuff, I'd be as interested in input regarding my position as your own input.

One thing I am interested in, but not that well up on, is different definitions of "zionism" used for different purposes, toxic or not.

 

[frogwoman]

I review my stances anyhow. People who purport to share a lot of stances can come from the far right, because they are chameleons and opportunists.

If I was writing something it wouldn't just be this stuff, I'd be as interested in input regarding my position as your own input.

you could try reading the detailed posts that love detective and others have written about banking and economics

or you could try the "kapitalism101" series of videos on youtube

 

[frogwoman]

Wrong.

as has been put to me numerous times, there are certain phrases that are evocative of poison. I accept that and apologise.

There can be debate about some terms e.g I don't see a problem with talking about "global finance capital" (It's global capital that is distinctly not to do with production) but others clearly do, and I've argued with them on the point.

But "bloodline banker" is not a phrase I should of used. Mea Culpa for certain. No issue saying that.

Now, if I had used the accurate and wiser "banking dynasty" people might still have jumped on me for using "code", because the purport ends up being one of "heads I win. Tails you lose".

(remember, the circumstance described was a very weird looking meeting involving quite a few other people whose ethnicity and profession did not coincide with the bloke I was on about.)

You talk about hiding "it"?

What is "it"? and where is your evidence for "it"?

it's not just the dog whistle phrases though

why do you need to talk about banking dynasties, do you really think the "dynasty" makes a difference? what is the difference between the capital that comes out a "dynasty" and other finance capital or other capital in general? And why is it ONLY about banks what about other types of businesses - do you not think they have a role in this as well?

conspiracy theories don't have a critique of capitalism. they never mention other types of industry apart from the banking industry, and what happens if we got rid of the "dynasties" and made it more meritocratic? the structure of the global financial system would still remain in place. look at china and chinese capital for example and that of the other "emerging markets", none of these people are made rich because of esoteric knowledge being passed through generations

there is nothing wrong with talking about global finance capital. people talk about banks, finance, finance capital etc every day on this forum without being accused of anti-semitism.

 

[butchersapron]

He's been posting here 10 years fw - in that time all he's learnt is to hide the wilder stuff he believes in. He's been walked through this time after time. He's not going to change now.

 

[frogwoman]

One thing I am interested in, but not that well up on, is different definitions of "zionism" used for different purposes, toxic or not.

well, it tends to be one of these words that differs according to who's using it

it's meant someone who supports israel's "right to exist" as a state and for example, norman finkelstein has called himself a zionist in the past. some say that all (religious) jews could be considered zionists because of the importance of the "promised land" in the religion, for example at the end of passover saying "next year in jerusalem" and so on

i tend to use it to mean people who support the israeli government or support it taking a more right wing authoritarian stance, but a lot of people call themselves zionists who don't support the israeli state's policies and don't think that it should be doing what it is to the palestinians. i am not a zionist because i don't believe there should be any states

to be honest its not that much good as a description and it really shouldn't be used to mean anything else except a political movement which led to the creation of the state of israel, or at least to just talk about israel, not banking, bilderberg or any other shit

and of course when talking about banking conspiracies, child sacrifice etc it just means "kike". thats whats offensive about it, zionism has fuck all to do with "finance capital"