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White civil rights leader has pretended to be black for years

Athos said:
You're comparing race with gender, whereas I'm saying that the argument would be that race is more analogous to sex, and that gender is more analogous to cultural identity.

Is that where the difference lies? The extent of medicalisation of the issue? If enough people presented with clinical implications to their feeling that their skin colour does not match how they define their cultural identity, would this 'transracialism' become a thing?
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You are confusing culture with ethnicity.
 
Diamond said:
What a bizarre story...

I wonder if anyone "white" has self-identified as being "yellow"?
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I've seen someone self-identify as 'violet', in support of dolezal's identification as black :facepalm:
 
AuntiStella said:
Race is determined by genes alone and is an entirely different sort of thing than gender which is determined by a complex mix of environmental factors which in most individuals match sex organs - but not all.

If those who advocate such "transracialness" or whatever we call it can build up a body of evidence such as we have to support gender dysphoria then they might be in business.
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You must stop and listen here.
 
Athos said:
You're comparing race with gender, whereas I'm saying that the argument would be that race is more analogous to sex, and that gender is more analogous to cultural identity.

Is that where the difference lies? The extent of medicalisation of the issue? If enough people presented with clinical implications to their feeling that their skin colour does not match how they define their cultural identity, would this 'transracialism' become a thing?
Click to expand...
But cultural identity is not race and the two things, gender and race - gender identity and racial identity are not analogous.

It's not medicalisation that is the issue, its proving with years of research that such a phenomena actually exists and can only be treated by transitioning your race. But how valid would transtioning race be considering hat you would still not be related to anyone of the race you claim to identify with?

Also is racial transitioning only something that white people can do? What if a person with strong negroid features felt white? How realistic would transitioning be in that case? And if the people who experience the most racial prejudice are not able to transition to being white how valid would this be? Seems to me it'd be something that some white people could choose to do and on a very flimsy theoretical basis.
 
AuntiStella said:
But cultural identity is not race and the two things, gender and race - gender identity and racial identity are not analogous.

It's not medicalisation that is the issue, its proving with years of research that such a phenomena actually exists and can only be treated by transitioning your race. But how valid would transtioning race be considering hat you would still not be related to anyone of the race you claim to identify with?

Also is racial transitioning only something that white people can do? What if a person with strong negroid features felt white? How realistic would transitioning be in that case? And if the people who experience the most racial prejudice are not able to transition to being white how valid would this be? Seems to me it'd be something that some white people could choose to do and on a very flimsy theoretical basis.
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I'm saying exactly that -that gender and race are not analogous. I'm suggesting that sex and race are analogous (biological), whereas gender and cultural identity are analogous (socially constructed).

I'm uncomfortable with the idea that 'transracialism' might become a thing when there is sufficient medical data. My instinct is that there's a fundamental, compelling reason to distinguish it from transexualism.

I'm not sure why you'd have to prove a genetic link to black person to 'transition' (accepting of course that I don't think people can transition race).

There are numerous historical examples of black people pretending to be white.
 
Athos said:
I'm saying exactly that -that gender and race are not analogous. I'm suggesting that sex and race are analogous (biological), whereas gender and cultural identity are analogous (socially constructed).

I'm uncomfortable with the idea that 'transracialism' might become a thing when there is sufficient medical data. My instinct is that there's a fundamental, compelling reason to distinguish it from transexualism.

I'm not sure why you'd have to prove a genetic link to black person to 'transition' (accepting of course that I don't think people can transition race).

There are numerous historical examples of black people pretending to be white.
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you keep failing to consider gender identity - where does that fit in in your analogy?

transracialism will never become a thing - and there will never be sufficient scientific data, because it is not real.
 
Wilf said:
I think he's probably - almost certainly - right about her sincerity in the sense of being an anti-racist. It's just that that doesn't tell the whole story, by a long way. It is, as he says, about honesty. He's being very measured, but her obvious and long term dishonesty is the thing that must really hurt genuine black campaigners (and indeed white campaigners). And as has been said several times, this isn't a game, it's not a spat in some local bee keepers group, it's about a vastly unequal society at a time when the colour of your skin - the thing she pisses about with - can get you shot.
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She may be anti racist against one section of society but there's been persistent claims she was inculcating deliberate racism into one of her adopted relatives . Which makes her a racist regardless of which race it is she encourages hatred against . Partisan hypocrisy doesn't make you anti racist , simply pro black . Or anti white . It's still racism regardless of which intersectional bollocking about gives it a rotten cloak of respectability .
 
AuntiStella said:
you keep failing to consider gender identity - where does that fit in in your analogy?

transracialism will never become a thing - and there will never be sufficient scientific data, because it is not real.
Click to expand...

Gender identity is analogous to cultural identity, in that comparison (and not analogous to racial identity).

The second part of your post is what some well-meaning people said about transexualism many years ago (and bigots continue to claim).
 
Wilf said:
Think this interview with her has been quoted from but not linked to:
http://www.today.com/news/rachel-dolezal-speaks-today-show-matt-lauer-after-naacp-resignation-t26371

Interviewer asks most of the rights questions, but it's an easy ride with no real follow up.
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If nothing else it was interesting watching how all these contradictions sit in her psyche. You can see her constructing a line, squaring the circles in real time as she answers. Politician speak really. However she's also managed to map ethnicity onto the seemingly poisonous divisions in her family. However horrible what she's done is, it's will be a fascinating story to watch (even if it demeans the real story of race inequality in America)
 
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