Where now for the anti-cuts movement?

[LLETSA]

You can't kill ideas, you egotistical chump.

Do you think fascism is dead?

Both fascism and socialism as world changing forces are dead, yes.

 

[LLETSA]

Yes, that full stop represents your capacity for critical thinking. Bravo.

At least I've offered some opinion as to where I think the world/our society is heading. You and others, on the other hand, prefer to write about me. And then you have the nerve to talk about critical thinking.

 

[frogwoman]

Both fascism and socialism as world changing forces are dead, yes.

Interesting you'd say that because from some of your posts i got the feeling that you thought fascism and the far right might become resurgent as people try to find alternatives to capitalism, but maybe i'm reading between the lines of your posts too much. Why do you think fascism is dead?

 

[LLETSA]

Interesting you'd say that because from some of your posts i got the feeling that you thought fascism and the far right might become resurgent as people try to find alternatives to capitalism, but maybe i'm reading between the lines of your posts too much. Why do you think fascism is dead?

Right wing populist movements are certainly not dead, but I doubt if they can ever be more than channels for popular discontent. I can't see them transforming whole societies as fascism did in the inter-war period in the last century, as capital is now footloose and beyond the control of national governments, while societies are fragmented, with populations subject to round-the-clock propaganda (however disguised) for the existing order. Which also explains the impossibility of socialism any longer being able transform societies, or (unlike neo-fascism or right wing populism) to even create anything remotely resembling a political force capable of doing so. Except, perhaps, in Latin America where it's led by powerful sections of the state machine and/or professional political class.

 

[nino_savatte]

At least I've offered some opinion as to where I think the world/our society is heading. You and others, on the other hand, prefer to write about me. And then you have the nerve to talk about critical thinking.

You're full of shit. The only person who believes this drivel is you. You offer nothing but defeatism and narrow-minded, ego-driven opinion - none of which appears to have been based on any reading.

In fact, over half of your replies don't even make any sense.

 

[nino_savatte]

Both fascism and socialism as world changing forces are dead, yes.

That doesn't mean that either idea is dead though, does it?

Move those goalposts.

 

[LLETSA]

That doesn't mean that either idea is dead though, does it?

It doesn't matter. There are lots of ideas flying around that are incapable of transforming the world. So what?

 

[LLETSA]

You're full of shit. The only person who believes this drivel is you. You offer nothing but defeatism and narrow-minded, ego-driven opinion - none of which appears to have been based on any reading. Your opinion, fwiw, is worth fuck all.

See what I mean?

 

[nino_savatte]

It doesn't matter. there are lots of ideas flying around that are incapable of transforming the world. So what?

That still doesn't mean that those ideas are dead.

 

[nino_savatte]

See what I mean?

It's all about you, isn't it? And yes, you are full of shit.

 

[nino_savatte]

Originally Posted by LLETSA
Mummy, look at what the bad man is doing to me! Make him go away!

 

[LLETSA]

That still doesn't mean that those ideas are dead.

I didn't say they were dead as ideas.

 

[LLETSA]

I don't want you to go away. I can put up with any number of soft cunts like you, especially when you're only words on a screen.

 

[LLETSA]

It's all about you, isn't it? And yes, you are full of shit.

As I and others keep on having to mention, it's only about me because you and certain others prefer to write about me rather than address my arguments.

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't want you to go away. I can put up with any number of soft cunts like you, especially when you're only words on a screen.

That rich coming from you.

 

[nino_savatte]

As I and others keep on having to mention, it's only about me because you and certain others prefer to write about me rather than address my arguments.

Wrong. It isn't about you but your egotism makes it that way. Your arguments, such as they are, are driven by your ego. You don't provide evidence, your only defence is "because I said so". That isn't an argument at all, is it?

 

[nino_savatte]

I didn't say they were dead as ideas.

You said that socialism was dead. Socialism is an idea; a concept; an ideology. You can't kill intangibles or abstracts.

 

[LLETSA]

As I said, I meant that socialism is dead and a movement capable of transforming societies. I've also said that I don't think it matters that it may not be dead as an idea. The existing order comfortably accommodates all kinds of ideas, including those hostile to it. That's why far left/anarchist activism, for example, has become little more than a tail-chasing exercise.

 

[nino_savatte]

If that's what you meant, then you should have made that clear.

 

[LLETSA]

If that's what you meant, then you should have made that clear.

How clear do you want it when you've made me repeat it half a dozen times?

Jesus.

 

[nino_savatte]

How clear do you want it when you've made me repeat it half a dozen times?

Jesus.

In spite of your protests, your original post was not clear. You claimed that socialism was "dead". Stop being so dishonest.

 

[nino_savatte]

The trouble is that we appear to be heading for times in which, scared or not, they won't be able to afford (or will say they can't afford) to introduce the reforms you speak of. Capital will not allow it and capital evades democratic control.

It isn't just socialism that's dead; welfare capitalism is set to go the same way. All the signs are there: a low wage economy with even some services now being outsourced just as industry has been; a population whose only way of keeping up the pretence of ever-higher living standards is to go into debt; an over-reliance on finance to keep the (ultimately doomed) debt-for-cheap-imports economy going; an ever-weakening workers' movement and an interchangeable political class; capital's complete monopoly on the means of manipulation. They've been preparing us for decades and the population continues to sleepwalk into it.

Quoted again for posterity.

 

[LLETSA]

In spite of your protests, your original post was not clear. You claimed that socialism was "dead". Stop being so dishonest.

Have you got time on your hands this Sunday? Can't you join a walking group or something?

 

[LLETSA]

Quoted again for posterity.

What's the matter with you? I've explained several timeswhy I think socialism is dead. It is as dead as a fucking doornail (whatever that means.)

 

[nino_savatte]

Have you got time on your hands this Sunday? Can't you join a walking group or something?

Oh, the irony! You're the one who appears to spend all your waking hours on here. More projection from the poster with the largest ego in Christendom.

 

[frogwoman]

Right wing populist movements are certainly not dead, but I doubt if they can ever be more than channels for popular discontent. I can't see them transforming whole societies as fascism did in the inter-war period in the last century, as capital is now footloose and beyond the control of national governments, while societies are fragmented, with populations subject to round-the-clock propaganda (however disguised) for the existing order. Which also explains the impossibility of socialism any longer being able transform societies, or (unlike neo-fascism or right wing populism) to even create anything remotely resembling a political force capable of doing so. Except, perhaps, in Latin America where it's led by powerful sections of the state machine and/or professional political class.

Oh, OK. It's just that from your posts in the past it seemed like you were suggesting that something similar to fascism might take hold in some parts of the world.

 

[LLETSA]

Oh, the irony! You're the one who appears to spend all your waking hours on here. More projection from the poster with the largest ego in Christendom.

Says the man with 37000 posts to my 6000.

 

[nino_savatte]

What's the matter with you? I've explained several timeswhy I think socialism is dead. It is as dead as a fucking doornail (whatever that means.)

And I've told you that you can't kill ideas. Socialism is no more dead than any other ideology.

But you've completely tied yourself up in knots, as this comment from you shows.

I didn't say they were dead as ideas.

It's make your mind up time, LLETSA.

 

[LLETSA]

Oh, OK. It's just that from your posts in the past it seemed like you were suggesting that something similar to fascism might take hold in some parts of the world.

It might, but I doubt if it will be capable of transorming societies in line with its ideology.

 

[nino_savatte]

Says the man with 37000 posts to my 6000.

I took a lot of time off from Urban and you? You spend all your waking hours here.