What's going on in the CIRCA thread?
- Thread starter the big bad pig
- Start date
badnewswade
freak-out wierdo
IPRN said:
Niether do they waste a perfectly good life pretending to be hard on some talkboard because someone grassed up a fucking rock dropper, now grow up for fucks sake and get a life!
bristle-krs said:
Er, how was this caused by me?
And who the fuck are you anyway, arsehole? You're not that twat who'se girlfriend I shagged back in '97 are you? I think I wanted to shag you as well, but nothing came of it fortunately
You sound like one of those weekend squatters, or one of their hangers-on, anyway. Don't you work for the Spark now, selling ad space to yoghurt weavers?
badnewswade
freak-out wierdo
IPRN said:
farkin ell gor blimey wot a cunt it's the sun wot won it for class war fuck the pigs blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
like I said, I think you need to get a life, and fast.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
'you the man', wade, 'you the man'
poor grasp of history, bad medication and a heart full of bile.
poor grasp of history, bad medication and a heart full of bile.
badnewswade
freak-out wierdo
IPRN said:
Yeah, I think you mentioned that already.
But as you're ignoring me, you won't be able to read this will you?
badnewswade
freak-out wierdo
bristle-krs said:'you the man', wade, 'you the man'
poor grasp of history, bad medication and a heart full of bile.
Who gives a shit what a wanker like you thinks anyway? Except for all the other losers and saddoes out there...
Now attack the criticism, not the source for once, will you?
Or you could always shut the fuck up about it of course. I mean how much more mileage can you get out of this premiss?
"Zaskar is bad, he is a grass."
"yes I agree he is a bad person now let us slag him off."
"No he is not bad, he told the cops about someone who was dropping rocks on trains and boasting about it, it is the rock dropper who is bad."
"No, you must be retarded if you think that."
"I don't think so."
"No, you are bad. Now we are going to slag you off because we don't like you and you are bitter and full of bile and you smell of poo."
etc, etc, etc....
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
badnewswade said:
charming
nothing like a man scorned, is there
badnewswade said:
i note you yourself haven't actually bothered to address the criticisms levelled at zaskar and his self-justifications.
are you determined to try and earn yourself some self-deluded outsider status or something? are you trying to relive your indymedia glory days or something?
Why are you writing lies? If you can read, you should be able to figure out the fact that everybody is objecting to the fingering of BIMC and not the rock-droppers. Such an obvious distortion is strong evidence that you are only interested in defending zaskar's actions and are not at all interested in the points being discussed.badnewswade said:
I would also like to note that, in addition to falsely accusing me of threatening him, Zaskar has sent me several PM's, for some reason including his telephone number, which I could only interpret as attempts to lead me to use rash words against him that he could later use against me / urban75. To anybody else who has received such PMs, remember that you should always have witnesses present if you have to talk to touts/cops so it is best to make any comments that you may have on the public bulletin board and not in PMs. Also, obviously, it is a good idea not to make any comments that could be misconstrued as threats to do anything illegal.
Anyway, I think that the best way to deal with this situation going forward, and such situations in general, is to publicise the incident as far and wide as possible to inform others who might come into contact with zaskar in the future that he is untrustworthy and likely to inform the police in order to settle personal disputes. Happily this is something that IMCs should be capable of doing very effectively.
badnewswade said:
You made the point of this unilateral thread.. anyone who tried to say that the rock dropper was bad did not get any answer.
I did not keep posting, but i kept reading the post, and it is good that someone had more patient than me to reply to it.. however, how you see they did not reply yet to what you asked and other people did:
will they do ever?
Everybody sane in the universe agrees that dropping rocks on trains is a 'bad' thing. You will be unlikely to get much debate about such obvious things.solstice said:
On the other hand, it seems that a few people are somehow unaware of the principle that can be roughly stated as "within radical groups, going to the police to inform them that the group has some information which the police may be able to coerce from them against their will is generally viewed as treachery and somebody who does this is unlikely to be trusted ever again". In general, in debates, people tend to focus on those areas where there is disagreement rather than the points which everybody agrees upon.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
bearing in mind i argued vigorously with iprn on other threads over the issue of public naming of alleged touts without evidence being fully public, i endorse much/most of what he has raised here. it's out in the open, and zaskar has been called upon to justify his actions.
no coherent justification has been made. lots of counter-accusation, misdirection and off-topic mudslinging has, though (thanks to the likes of badnewswade).
the issues at stake are, as i see them:
(1) whether the original indymedia post was (i) reporting on a dangerous, life-threatening act of vandalism, or (ii) inciting others to do the same.
on this i don't think that (i) is proved, and i think (ii) is debatable.
(2) whether - given the very real threat to indymedias worldwide of harassment and disruption by the police and other agencies - contacting the police to report bristol indymedia was the right thing to do, given (i) that as point (1) shows, there is real doubt that there was ever a real 'offence' to have reported in the first place; (ii) the police and other agencies are known to monitor postings on indymedia anyway.
add to the mix
(3) the personal involvement of zaskar in indymedia - and subsequent falling out with various people involved in bristol indymedia
(4) zaskar's activities filming activists and political activity across bristol, often without the explicit permission of those he is filming (as demonstrated by the antipathy shown by some here who have been filmed)
and
(5) concerns which various posters have raised over inconsistencies, omission and diversions offered.
now, none of this means that zaskar is necessarily a paid up agent of the state... but his actions still threaten progressive people and organisations, regardless of his reasons for doing what he has done.
we have had a frank and open discussion over these issues - often in a very robust manner.
but no one has 'dismissed' the issue of potentially endangering train drivers - it's simply that zaskar chose to do something for which he is now being held to account.
no coherent justification has been made. lots of counter-accusation, misdirection and off-topic mudslinging has, though (thanks to the likes of badnewswade).
the issues at stake are, as i see them:
(1) whether the original indymedia post was (i) reporting on a dangerous, life-threatening act of vandalism, or (ii) inciting others to do the same.
on this i don't think that (i) is proved, and i think (ii) is debatable.
(2) whether - given the very real threat to indymedias worldwide of harassment and disruption by the police and other agencies - contacting the police to report bristol indymedia was the right thing to do, given (i) that as point (1) shows, there is real doubt that there was ever a real 'offence' to have reported in the first place; (ii) the police and other agencies are known to monitor postings on indymedia anyway.
add to the mix
(3) the personal involvement of zaskar in indymedia - and subsequent falling out with various people involved in bristol indymedia
(4) zaskar's activities filming activists and political activity across bristol, often without the explicit permission of those he is filming (as demonstrated by the antipathy shown by some here who have been filmed)
and
(5) concerns which various posters have raised over inconsistencies, omission and diversions offered.
now, none of this means that zaskar is necessarily a paid up agent of the state... but his actions still threaten progressive people and organisations, regardless of his reasons for doing what he has done.
we have had a frank and open discussion over these issues - often in a very robust manner.
but no one has 'dismissed' the issue of potentially endangering train drivers - it's simply that zaskar chose to do something for which he is now being held to account.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Thanks for tying all that together krs.
gurrier said:
But this is the interweb!
- Everybody in the universe agrees that dropping rocks in front of a train travelling at speed or dropping big rocks onto a passenger train is a Bad Thing - except those who hate railways so much they wish a grisly death on all who work for or travel on them (Thatcher? Sane? Discuss elsewhere);
- Some would feel that observing a train trundling slowly down a poorly-maintained branch-line from the docks, waiting for the engine to pass and then dropping rocks on the roofs of cars on the following waggons was merely very, very, very childish. And the sort of thing children have done since there were trains, except that they didn't get to brag about it online until a bit later.
Now, I can't be arsed to search out the hidden BIM post to see whether it made clear which had happened. But this thread has been getting more and more bizarre due to everyone arguing as if they're the same thing.
Wouldn't one have to be very stoned to make the original mistake of leaping to the conclusion that it had to be (a)? Just an intuition...
Edited again to add: Unless, of course, it were not a mistake, and not based on ignorance of what it's like for an IMC to deal with the police, but pure malice...
badnewswade said:
You are the twat come vist Leeds some time id love to meet you!
bristle-krs said:
The reason why i think you actually have dismissed the issue is because if you really consider it, there is not real need to attack Z. He is just did what anyone else, worried for possible tragic conseguences, would have done.
And that is at least the point of view from somebody that see the all thing from outside.. not even knowing Z.
I apologise if my English might have disturbed someone, that is my last post.
Good luck with your aggressivity and hate
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
"Good luck with your aggressivity and hate"
Cheers!
Cheers!
butchersapron said:"Good luck with your aggressivity and hate"
Cheers!
Im going to call the police its to aggressive on here
IPRN said:
Ta. Missed that while I was availing myself of free wine last night.
Even from this distance, in about 15 minutes I was able to work out from this map and this Parliamentary question that the speed limit on the line is not much over 30mph... so the scenario looks more like my (b) than anything else.
bristol_citizen
Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to know how Zaskar came across an NUJ card. A journalist he most certainly ain't.
Also on the subject of PM's from him, don't touch them with a barge pole. He started emailing me a few weeks back, then posted on to Bristol Indymedia that I'd threatened him and told him to fuck off. I'd done neither, I actually sent him a three word reply - "you pompous tosser". In the end I had to publish the emails to prove what had happened... Like I've got fuck all else to do my time.
After that he switched to smearing a mate of mine instead who's involved in a local campaign. Pretty weird journalism eh?
Also on the subject of PM's from him, don't touch them with a barge pole. He started emailing me a few weeks back, then posted on to Bristol Indymedia that I'd threatened him and told him to fuck off. I'd done neither, I actually sent him a three word reply - "you pompous tosser". In the end I had to publish the emails to prove what had happened... Like I've got fuck all else to do my time.
After that he switched to smearing a mate of mine instead who's involved in a local campaign. Pretty weird journalism eh?
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