What's going on in the CIRCA thread?

[gurrier]

Wasn't that you? I'd call him a mendacious, low-life, grassing, cunt.

I'd go for treacherous, snivelling little touting worm myself.

 

[IPRN]

I'd go for treacherous, snivelling little touting worm myself.

Good one, but how about wretched, disingenuous, self-serving, parasitic, no-good, lickspittle, RAT?

 

[TeeJay]

This level of violence is never fun.

So what level of violence do you find fun?

 

[rednblack]

So what level of violence do you find fun?

θάλασσα πρωί γυάλισμα,

 

[TeeJay]

The day I give a fuck about some half-witted tout-friendly lying wanker trying to denigrate my political activity is the day I'll pack it in.

So why have you spent so much time and effort posting abusive shite with next to no political content on this thread instead of starting and posting in threads about things which are relevant to the bulk of ordinary people?

As it happens, a quick glance through your posts on urban75 shows that the bulk of them have nothing to do with politics (nothing wrong with that) but even the ones that do are mostly about slagging off people who you seem to have a pet hate for and denouncing people as informers.

You seem to be here purely to shit-stir and spread conflict between activists. Why not try contributing something a bit more constructive?

 

[TeeJay]

θάλασσα πρωί γυάλισμα,

What's that mean in English?

 

[TeeJay]

What would you know about normal people? 'Normal people' do not think it is OK to give the names and addresses of comrades and former colleagues to the cops.

Normal people don't go around calling people "comrades".

 

[TeeJay]

Actually I work for an agency called 'LoonNet' set up to hunt down and section paranoid schizophrenics on the internet. Part of my duties in that role do also clearly involve informing the police of your activities.

Erm...

...any slight sympathy I might have had for you* was obviously severely misplaced.

Why don't you just fuck off? You are just here to troll and annoy people.

You might realise what I am talking about if you actually knew anything about this website. I couldn't be bothered wasting my time explaining why the above is such an offensive load of shite, although the fact that even The Sun were shamed into apologising to Frank Bruno shoud give you a clue.

I doubt you are going to be here much longer.

*due to the attacks by other posters rather than any endorsement of your decision to bypass BIM.

 

[badnewswade]

gee, lighten up, Mr. PC. Zaskar works as a mental nurse and is a bit of a loon himself, you need to chill out (like a lot of people). I mean, hate the sin and not the sinner and all that.

It's not even about defending Zaskar any more, whether you like the guy or not these anarcho-twats are out of order, somne of them may well be cops themselves.

Let's re-cap: Some anarcho-twat / undercover cop boasted about and called for rocks to be dropped on trains on bristol.indymedia.org.

Bristol.indymedia.org, in violation of their own rules, left the post up, apparently for 24 hours, ie failed to moderate this.

Several people grassed on the poster to the cops- and the one with the balls to admit it who was fairly well known was Mr. Zaskar here, who as you have noticed isn't always endearingly PC or nice or anything and doesn't have a great reputation with some people. So what? Were you defending his "rep" or his actions? Either you think he was right to do it, or wrong, or something in between. Whether you find him irritating or rude or think he is bad because he is rude about mad people is neither here nor there. The debate here is about whether doing something dangerous and stupid, that will get you grassed up is worse than actually doing the grassing, considering that the dangerous and stupid acts potentially cause a lot more damage (ie dead train drivers).

Or maybe not. This is stupid. I'm bored now...

****

So anyway over to you right on, free thinking Anarchists with impeccable credentials and good reputations: How come debate = calling everyone who disagrees with you a liar or an idiot?

And why don't you bugger off and join the Mafia or the Nazi Party? Both organisations put a premium on silence and obedience above all other considerations and also there's plenty of that lovely violence you seem so addicted to. Plus they don't like the cops so they must be Class Struggle Anarchist Organisations!!

 

[butchersapron]

So why have you spent so much time and effort posting abusive shite with next to no political content on this thread instead of starting and posting in threads about things which are relevant to the bulk of ordinary people?

As it happens, a quick glance through your posts on urban75 shows that the bulk of them have nothing to do with politics (nothing wrong with that) but even the ones that do are mostly about slagging off people who you seem to have a pet hate for and denouncing people as informers.

You seem to be here purely to shit-stir and spread conflict between activists. Why not try contributing something a bit more constructive?

Again, a post with no content related to the thread.. Have you still no substabtive points to make? What's youir rule again teej- shut up if you haven't?

 

[bristol_citizen]

somne of them may well be cops themselves.

Who do you think is a cop then? You've already accused IPRN of being a tout which is totally ludicrous. Seems the only defence you have is to smear everyone else on the thread.

How come debate = calling everyone who disagrees with you a liar or an idiot?

How come debate for you is to call everyone who rightly slags off your twat mate Zaskar a cop, an informer, a mafiosi or a nazi?

You need to calm down, shut up and start using your head Wade.

 

[badnewswade]

Who do you think is a cop then? You've already accused IPRN of being a tout which is totally ludicrous. Seems the only defence you have is to smear everyone else on the thread.

Not true. I seem to remember accusing him of being a cop (and I'm not alone in this), totally different thing.

At least five people have posted here to support Zaskar, and I haven't smeared them. In fact I think you guys have smeared more people than me. That's what I'm talking about...

How come debate for you is to call everyone who rightly slags off your twat mate Zaskar a cop, an informer, a mafiosi or a nazi?

Just answer the question, please....

You need to calm down, shut up and start using your head Wade.

Yes, and I'm not the only one... guess it's time for more piss poor threats and abuse I suppose, sigh.

 

[bristol_citizen]

I seem to remember accusing him of being a cop (and I'm not alone in this)

I think you are very alone in this actually.

 

[badnewswade]

So you're not going to answer this question then?

How come debate = calling everyone who disagrees with you a liar or an idiot?

 

[badnewswade]

I think you are very alone in this actually.

BTW:

23-06-2005, 06:56 PM
Serotonin Serotonin is offline
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPRN
How fucking stupid is it possible for you to be?



There you go again with the ad hominem attacks. Quite frankly judging by your posting history, which pretty much amounts to slagging off other activists work, and calling people touts, I am deeply suspcious of your motives.
Is the reason the cops let you go all them years back because they turned you? Are you intent on causing unrest amongst your fellow activists by your 'feds under the beds' posts? Or was that just fantasy to stoke your activists e-penis? You are coming across as some sort of crank.

Butchers Apron- I live just outside of Bristol, having recently moved from the city centre. Why are you so interested, you ain't flirting with me are you?
Reply With Quote

 

[the big bad pig]

I haven't read all of this thread yet. I've more chance of reading the original.

Personally, I would say love is revolutionary, hate is counter. I don't see many revolutionaries.

 

[badnewswade]

Me neither bigbadpig, but the parallel universe these people live in is kind of interesting sometimes, I have to admit. They remind me of the Freepers- a common sight on the International thread of the Guardian talkboard. Totally whacked out ideologues, entertaining when not utterly scary.

 

[IPRN]

You seem to be here purely to shit-stir and spread conflict between activists.

Pardon me for not ringing the cops and grassing people up, then I guess I'd be OK.

 

[IPRN]

I think you are very alone in this actually.

Am I being accused of being a cop now(Got BNW on ignore)???!!!!!

Someone admits to being a tout, but they're not a tout, but one of the people outraged by their behaviour is a tout, and now a cop???!!!! That's a 'special' kind of logic, Wade you give stupid people a bad name.

 

[IPRN]

As it happens, a quick glance through your posts on urban75 shows that the bulk of them have nothing to do with politics .

Now you're telling porkies Teejay. My posting history is there for people to read.

but even the ones that do are mostly about slagging off people

Zaskar, CIRCA, and Bob Geldof.

 

[IPRN]

From 'Hands Up If You've Been Nicked For Protest-related Stuff'.

I got a punch in at tebbit years ago and got thrown ruffly to the ground arrested then let go.

I put up a poster about bus-fare increases on a bus shelter, got fined £75, and when I refused to pay it, sent to Hull nick for 5 days.

 

[IPRN]

Erm...

...any slight sympathy I might have had for you* was obviously severely misplaced.

Why don't you just fuck off? You are just here to troll and annoy people.

Are you finally bothering to read back through this thread TeeJay? A shame you didn't read it in the first place, instead of obsessing over my posting history.

 

[IPRN]

I haven't read all of this thread yet. I've more chance of reading the original.

Well for fuck's sake don't start another thread asking people to explain this one for you!

 

[Herbert Read]

Normal people don't go around calling people "comrades".

They do if they are involved in political stuggle

 

[badnewswade]

Does political struggle include allowing rock droppers to use your internet site as a mouthpiece?

I mean, as anyone who grasses on said rock droppers is a "tout" and a "class enemy".

Some straaaaange definitions there...

Maybe we could get debate refefined as a string of threats, ad hominem attacks, lies, and general nasty ranting and raving, or the political process in general redefined as being on a forum where you boast how much time youve done and how dodgy you are.

 

[badnewswade]

The funny thing is I'm ambiguous about what Zaskar has done myself, I thought it somewhat ill thought out and certainly a bad move reputation-wise. Obviously a lot of people aren't going to trust him because of this and that is bad.

But the attitudes and behaviour of his detractors are so OTT, and they are so obviously in favour of the rock dropper and the dickheads that left his post up for 24 hours, I've kind of ended up on his side by default.

All down to the winning rhetoric of IPRN, Citizen, Bristle-Krap, and so on. I was going to go to the local G8 protests, but an appointment with the quack cropped up. No way I'm going to cancel that now, so I can hang out with a bunch of macho dickheads like that and be hassled by the cops...

Own goal anyone? Face it, apart from everything else you're a PR disaster, worse even than the hippies.

 

[DaveCinzano]

marvellous

 

[gurrier]

The funny thing is I'm ambiguous about what Zaskar has done myself, I thought it somewhat ill thought out and certainly a bad move reputation-wise. Obviously a lot of people aren't going to trust him because of this and that is bad.

But the attitudes and behaviour of his detractors are so OTT, and they are so obviously in favour of the rock dropper and the dickheads that left his post up for 24 hours, I've kind of ended up on his side by default.

All down to the winning rehtoric of IPRN, Citizen, Bristle-Krap, and so on.

Wade, could you please point out one example of somebody on this thread expressing support for 'the rock dropper'? If you can't then, I suggest you confine yourself to dealing with what people have said and stop trying to project unstated opinions onto them.

The point is that, although some people may be interested in macho posturing about this issue, others are not. Some people understand that trust based communities, particularly those that espouse radical politics, depend upon an understanding that it is simply not acceptable to use the police as a tool in internal disputes. Any movement that tolerates such behaviour is basically worthless. In fact this is not even a particular property of radical movements - it is a rule that is common in virtually every single human organisation. For example, the next time that you observe some arbitrary law breaking connected with your place of work try going to the police before you go to management - your job won't last long. Even informal organisations like neighbourhoods operate according to this rule.

Now my reading of this situation - from afar and not knowing a single one of the participants - is that Zaskar is simply an immature and self-obsessed idiot who treats politics as a big game and who didn't realise that many others don't. He has been disrupting bristol IMC for years in relative peace but when he involved the police, he crossed an important line. As I say, no serious organisation - never mind radical movement for whom it is 1000 times more important - can tolerate such behaviour in its ranks and that means that when somebody carries out such behaviour, the movement needs to clearly and unambiguously condemn it in such a way as to minimise the probability that other selfish and immature people will consider doing it in the future. In general this means that the movement needs to make an example of the informer. This is really nothing to do with machismo, omerta or even vindictiveness, just a basic necessity of group survival.

For example, as far as I am aware every armed group ever since the dawn of time has had the same policy towards informers. Now, obviously indymedia isn't an armed group, and is in fact fairly fluffy and highly unlikely to organise any serious sanctions against him. However, what will happen is that people within the network who are particularly concerned about such things will do their best to publicise the incident - which they are very well equipped to do. Others will disagree with this course of action no doubt, but indymedia being what it is, that doesn't really matter - as long as a handful of people take it upon themselves to do it, it will happen. Once it happens, it will attract interest as indymedians are very sensitive to police attacks on the network and a fair number of the eyes of the network will cast their glance on Bristol IMC and Zaskar's actions. I would not expect much sympathy for Zaskar and I hope that the widespread negative impact on his reputation will provide a salutary lesson for others who will be less likely to resort to such stupid actions in the future.

To sum up, while I'm sure that Zaskar's reputation has already been ruined among activists in Bristol, reports on his actions have not yet been circulated throughout the IMC network and when they are, I think that he will find that the impact on his reputation is several degrees of magnitude greater than he probably imagines.

 

[Hoxtontwat]

Exactly!
For fucks sake. You can't just grass people up becaue you had an argument with them. Why do some people not see that?!

And don't say that you grassed up the rock throwers and not BIM because the result was the same.

 

[IPRN]

Wade, could you please point out one example of somebody on this thread expressing support for 'the rock dropper'? If you can't then, I suggest you confine yourself to dealing with what people have said and stop trying to project unstated opinions onto them.

The point is that, although some people may be interested in macho posturing about this issue, others are not. Some people understand that trust based communities, particularly those that espouse radical politics, depend upon an understanding that it is simply not acceptable to use the police as a tool in internal disputes. Any movement that tolerates such behaviour is basically worthless. In fact this is not even a particular property of radical movements - it is a rule that is common in virtually every single human organisation. For example, the next time that you observe some arbitrary law breaking connected with your place of work try going to the police before you go to management - your job won't last long. Even informal organisations like neighbourhoods operate according to this rule.

Now my reading of this situation - from afar and not knowing a single one of the participants - is that Zaskar is simply an immature and self-obsessed idiot who treats politics as a big game and who didn't realise that many others don't. He has been disrupting bristol IMC for years in relative peace but when he involved the police, he crossed an important line. As I say, no serious organisation - never mind radical movement for whom it is 1000 times more important - can tolerate such behaviour in its ranks and that means that when somebody carries out such behaviour, the movement needs to clearly and unambiguously condemn it in such a way as to minimise the probability that other selfish and immature people will consider doing it in the future. In general this means that the movement needs to make an example of the informer. This is really nothing to do with machismo, omerta or even vindictiveness, just a basic necessity of group survival.

For example, as far as I am aware every armed group ever since the dawn of time has had the same policy towards informers. Now, obviously indymedia isn't an armed group, and is in fact fairly fluffy and highly unlikely to organise any serious sanctions against him. However, what will happen is that people within the network who are particularly concerned about such things will do their best to publicise the incident - which they are very well equipped to do. Others will disagree with this course of action no doubt, but indymedia being what it is, that doesn't really matter - as long as a handful of people take it upon themselves to do it, it will happen. Once it happens, it will attract interest as indymedians are very sensitive to police attacks on the network and a fair number of the eyes of the network will cast their glance on Bristol IMC and Zaskar's actions. I would not expect much sympathy for Zaskar and I hope that the widespread negative impact on his reputation will provide a salutary lesson for others who will be less likely to resort to such stupid actions in the future.

To sum up, while I'm sure that Zaskar's reputation has already been ruined among activists in Bristol, reports on his actions have not yet been circulated throughout the IMC network and when they are, I think that he will find that the impact on his reputation is several degrees of magnitude greater than he probably imagines.

GOOD post.