Was the killing in Woolwich murder or part of the war?

[tony.c]

The SAS were covertly in Afghanistan killing Russians in the 1980's according to Andy McNab in his book Seven Troop.
The UK was not at war with the USSR, so was that murder, and were the Thatcher Government war criminals?

 

[Belushi]

not even japan? or thailand? or romania, hungary, finland, italy or bulgaria?

Okay - since 1945

 

[brogdale]

it was a deranged killing, i dont think it was partof the war at all.

Maybe reflect on that statement for a while?

 

[cesare]

Okay - since 1945

 

[Pickman's model]

The SAS were covertly in Afghanistan killing Russians in the 1980's according to Andy McNab in his book Seven Troop.
The UK were not at war with the USSR, so was that murder, or was the Thatcher Government war criminals?

i don't see it as an either/or question

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

really surprised Jazzz hasn't been on to blame a false flag yet

http://www. davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245977

A quick skim through will be enough.

 

[JimW]

Do states actually bother "declaring war" any more? Does anyone know of recent "declarations of war" that actually led to, or involved armed conflict?

Thought I'd check out the Russia-Georgia war as a recent example that sprang to mind of a war between states, and while can't spot a formal decalration in a Chamberlain sense there's clearly legalistic stuff going on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Russia–Georgia_war#August_8:_Russian_involvement
Complicated by pre-existing "peace-keeping" roles etc. it seems.

 

[tony.c]

i don't see it as an either/or question

OK - amended.

 

[butchersapron]

So, if this soldier had decided to kill these two instead of the other way around it would have just been the war over here and therefore not murder according to some on this thread?

 

[peterkro]

"there is a war between the ones who say there is a war and the ones who say there isn't"
L.Cohen

 

[Pickman's model]

So, if this soldier had decided to kill these two instead of the other way around it would have just been the war over here and therefore not murder according to some on this thread?

 

[phildwyer]

So was this attack simply a part of the war that happened to take place on 'our' territory?

Yep.

Is it fundamentally ethically different from what is happening in Afghanistan?

Yep. We started ıt.

And is our shock at the brutality of it partly an admission that we don't really think about the war very much and are simply horrified to find it arriving here rather than staying safely over there?

Yep x 10,000.

 

[phildwyer]

should we be outraged if something that could happen every day in Afghanistan comes to our doorsteps?

We should be outraged at the people who started the war.

 

[Brainaddict]

So, if this soldier had decided to kill these two instead of the other way around it would have just been the war over here and therefore not murder according to some on this thread?

I suppose there would have to be some way to know that the guys were 'enemy combatants' and therefore a threat to British troops. I think people would be shocked if it happened that way round as well, just because it's on UK soil.

 

[phildwyer]

Exactly what states are we at "war" with, in your opinion?

Afghanıstan, Iraq, Lıbya, Syrıa and Pakıstan.

 

[JimW]

First thing popped into my head reading thread title.

 

[Brainaddict]

Oh god. Please don't help me phildwyer. It's like the bull wanting to help tidy up the china shop.

 

[panpete]

I'm not religious, but what if the killing was just some deranged psychos, and nothing to do with any wars?
What if there were no plans to carry out the murder outside the barracks, and it just happened that way?
What if the government, via the media, manipulated us into thinking the attack was war related, and to start wrongly hating on muslims, for their own crap agenda?

 

[JimW]

Though he was specifically defending topping Charles rather than acts of war by the Parliamentary Army wasn't he?

 

[phildwyer]

Do states actually bother "declaring war" any more?

No. They don't even call ıt ''war'' any more.

They lıke to pretend that we are engaged ın polıce actıons.

The yoof are often surprısed to hear that the UK had a ''Secretary for War'' ın the twentıeth century.

 

[tony.c]

So, if this soldier had decided to kill these two instead of the other way around it would have just been the war over here and therefore not murder according to some on this thread?

Was it murder or war when 3 unarmed IRA volunteers were killed by the SAS in Gibraltar?

 

[DotCommunist]

The SAS were covertly in Afghanistan killing Russians in the 1980's according to Andy McNab in his book Seven Troop.
The UK was not at war with the USSR, so was that murder, and were the Thatcher Government war criminals?

lol

 

[JimW]

I'm not religious, but what if the killing was just some deranged psychos, and nothing to do with any wars?
What if there were no plans to carry out the murder outside the barracks, and it just happened that way?
What if the government, via the media, manipulated us into thinking the attack was war related, and to start wrongly hating on muslims, for their own crap agenda?

And had an actor handy to make that statement on the scene? You'd have to have them complicit in the actual killing to to make your daft fantasy work.

 

[phildwyer]

Bizarre thread.

Excellent thread.

 

[butchersapron]

Was it murder or war when 3 unarmed IRA volunteers were killed by the SAS in Gibraltar?

You tell me, and how you answer will also give the answer to my question about if this had happened the other way round - won't it?

 

[phildwyer]

So, if this soldier had decided to kill these two instead of the other way around it would have just been the war over here and therefore not murder according to some on this thread?

You know what asymmetrıcal warfare ıs.

Why are you pretendıng you don't?

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not religious, but what if the killing was just some deranged psychos, and nothing to do with any wars?
What if there were no plans to carry out the murder outside the barracks, and it just happened that way?
What if the government, via the media, manipulated us into thinking the attack was war related, and to start wrongly hating on muslims, for their own crap agenda?

at that point we would all seek assistance for incipient paranoia

 

[likesfish]

Unluckly afghan taxi driver then?

 

[DotCommunist]

you're obsessed by afghan taxi drivers

 

[phildwyer]

Oh god. Please don't help me phildwyer.

What makes you thınk I'm helpıng you?

Thıs ıs goıng to be an excellent thread ın spıte of your ınvolvement.

Whıch wıll shortly become mınımal ın any case.