Vitamin D toxicity: review & discussion, NOT recommendation

[Mation]

8ball and Wouldbe being dicks?!? no waaaaai!

Can we not go down this route either, please?

Although... bunfight in the science forum might help my ONGOING campaign to bump it up the boards

On this thread, random bunfights are therefore permitted. Meanness is not.

 

[WouldBe]

Please don't do that.

SheilaNaGig has again provided links and critical comment on a wide variety of sources and research results, comment and opinion, and taken pains to include concerns and caveats.

If you have concerns or doubts about the validity of any specific results linked to, do share them. This is a thread for review and discussion, as the title makes clear.

It's not a thread for sniping, and certainly not at someone who has made way more effort than you have to provide information and food for thought.


This is really hand-wavily judgemental. Have you actually read any of the studies? If so, please share your thoughts on specifics.


My claims of authority tend to come out when I'm being doubted, not on the basis of what I've presented, but on the basis of others' beliefs about what I'm likely to present.

In science, it's commonly regarded as a good thing to be able to discuss matters without recourse to one's preconceptions of the source.



Interesting. My one-person observational study (of my mother) indicates that her chronic psychosis became significantly more pronounced on her immigration from a tropical country to the UK. There will be other factors, known and unknown, but this is something I want to investigate further, just for personal reasons.

It will likely turn out to be impossible to judge the relative contribution of various factors in this one case, but I'd still like to understand more about the potential causes.

SnG does post a lot of good info but in science it's usual that when someone comes up with a theory ( I'm not saying it's SnG's theory) it is tested and challenged. That's the way science works. So when I see something that doesn't make sense then I'll query it.

 

[passenger]

Jeff T Bowels..

Can High Dose Vitamin D3 Cure Your Disease? – Miracles of Vitamin D3

taked3.com

A rather interesting toll of advice.

 

[Supine]

Jeff T Bowels..

Can High Dose Vitamin D3 Cure Your Disease? – Miracles of Vitamin D3

taked3.com

A rather interesting toll of advice.

That looks well dodgy. Plenty of actual research is available.

 

[passenger]

That looks well dodgy. Plenty of actual research is available.

Please watch this and then tell me

 

[Supine]

Please watch this and then tell me

You expect me to watch over an hour of video? LOL

 

[gentlegreen]

dissapointed to see his name isn't "bowels"
"miracle" is enough to put me off.

 

[Riklet]

I take vit D 1000IU most days, Health Leads is a good brand Ive found.. Also had the Bulk Powders ones which were cheapy cheap iirc.

I dont go outside much at the moment and Ive always felt the difference from the lack of sunlight in the UK so it works for me. Some or the doses available do seem silly high though, but I think short/medium term is fine.

 

[passenger]

dissapointed to see his name isn't "bowels"
"miracle" is enough to put me off.

The man in the pic is the person doing the interview Not Jeff Bowels

 

[gentlegreen]

The man in the pic is the person doing the interview Not Jeff Bowels

 

[passenger]

Yes that is a cover for one of his videos

take a minute to watch the video 2.03 in

 

[gentlegreen]

I was very relieved when I no longer had to patronise H&B - it was all about the massive wall of "supplements" and more than once they were dismayed when I refused to sign some petition or other demanding the right to sell mega-doses.

 

[gentlegreen]

About - Jeff T Bowles

Jeff T Bowles Biography and About Section - eduction and research

jefftbowles.com

At first glance, you might think, why should I listen to Jeff Bowles about anything? He has no degree in any health field, in fact his only degrees are in real estate finance, a CPA, and an MBA from Northwestern University.

But what are degrees really? They are just letters behind one’s name, and a piece of paper to hang on the wall that suggest to those who are not educated enough or are too lazy to intelligently evaluate the degreed person’s knowledge in the field.

etc...

 

[WouldBe]

That looks well dodgy. Plenty of actual research is available.

Says he won't have the vaccine and says those who have had covid have "the best vaccine possible" and are "probably protected for life".

All the quotes are anecdotal.

 

[WouldBe]

8ball and Wouldbe being dicks?!? no waaaaai!
They've got form SnG, don't let their digs and incessant posting get you down

e2a on topic, just got 1000 IU (D3*25ug)
only been taking then now and again

You have form for jumping into a thread, making a snide comment then f'ing off. Why not try debating for a change?

 

[passenger]

About - Jeff T Bowles

Jeff T Bowles Biography and About Section - eduction and research

jefftbowles.com

View attachment 260485

I Will read and eat humble pie, but feel I am on the right path

I really need some hope with the pain in my leg

 

[8ball]

You have form for jumping into a thread, making a snide comment then f'ing off. Why not try debating for a change?

 

[8ball]

Please don't do that.

SheilaNaGig has again provided links and critical comment on a wide variety of sources and research results, comment and opinion, and taken pains to include concerns and caveats.

If you have concerns or doubts about the validity of any specific results linked to, do share them. This is a thread for review and discussion, as the title makes clear.

It's not a thread for sniping, and certainly not at someone who has made way more effort than you have to provide information and food for thought.


This is really hand-wavily judgemental. Have you actually read any of the studies? If so, please share your thoughts on specifics.


My claims of authority tend to come out when I'm being doubted, not on the basis of what I've presented, but on the basis of others' beliefs about what I'm likely to present.

In science, it's commonly regarded as a good thing to be able to discuss matters without recourse to one's preconceptions of the source.

I made quite clear which statement I was referring to (the Google search one). In terms of the post some people seem to think I was referring to, I can post to links criticising poor replication attempts for a lot of results, as well as large meta-analyses shown later to have been based on very biased sets of studies as I mentioned earlier, but since I wasn’t criticising that one, I haven’t dug into anything specific. The stuff about clothing choices, the hijab etc. isn’t something I have any issue with.

Studies making claims on the basis of all-course mortality have come under specific criticism here. Small observational studies and statistical associations with no recourse to mechanism shouldn’t be taken as anything other than potentially suggestive, but they make for exaggerated reporting. This is the stuff that will get eagerly picked up by a search engine algorithm.

Bias towards positive results in science, science reporting and search engine algorithms is a big problem for anyone without a lot of time to dig into the content.

Tl;dr - I was criticising post #54, not #53 as seems to have been assumed. I’m happy to defend that criticism (if not the phrasing). Didn’t want to go back and edit as was being arsey and apologised and thought best to own that one.

 

[8ball]

dissapointed to see his name isn't "bowels"
"miracle" is enough to put me off.

It if walks like a duck and talks like a duck..

 

[8ball]

I really need some hope with the pain in my leg

Sorry to hear that. I’m sure most of us have scratched around looking for something hopeful when the main courses of action have failed.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Even gout + erectile dysfunction, when seen together, seems to have some connection to vitamin d deficiency

Well it's only one data point but i'll have a shuffle later and report back



Apologies this reply is about 2 pages out of date. only trying to be funny

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Sorry to hear that. I’m sure most of us have scratched around looking for something hopeful when the main courses of action have failed.

I think we all need to stop talking about masturbation.

 

[gentlegreen]

I Will read and eat humble pie, but feel I am on the right path

I really need some hope with the pain in my leg

sciatica ?

 

[Mation]

SnG does post a lot of good info but in science it's usual that when someone comes up with a theory ( I'm not saying it's SnG's theory) it is tested and challenged. That's the way science works. So when I see something that doesn't make sense then I'll query it.

I'm aware of the way science works.

What theory?

I made quite clear which statement I was referring to (the Google search one). In terms of the post some people seem to think I was referring to, I can post to links criticising poor replication attempts for a lot of results, as well as large meta-analyses shown later to have been based on very biased sets of studies as I mentioned earlier, but since I wasn’t criticising that one, I haven’t dug into anything specific. The stuff about clothing choices, the hijab etc. isn’t something I have any issue with.

Studies making claims on the basis of all-course mortality have come under specific criticism here. Small observational studies and statistical associations with no recourse to mechanism shouldn’t be taken as anything other than potentially suggestive, but they make for exaggerated reporting. This is the stuff that will get eagerly picked up by a search engine algorithm.

Bias towards positive results in science, science reporting and search engine algorithms is a big problem for anyone without a lot of time to dig into the content.

Tl;dr - I was criticising post #54, not #53 as seems to have been assumed. I’m happy to defend that criticism (if not the phrasing). Didn’t want to go back and edit as was being arsey and apologised and thought best to own that one.

I know which post you were referring to and was commenting on your reply to it.

What about saying 'if you search you will find...' means 'take everything you find uncritically, at face value'?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I think there may be a curious bias that links a substance to a specific outcome.

If you take X your Y will get better.

It makes some sense. We think of the imbibement of a substance to have an Equivalent Exchange,

However I often think of our biological chemical interplay as an emergent pattern.

Taking a supplement has an effect but understanding the outcome of that effect requires a understanding of so many variables and processes as to be incomprehensible to most.

We may just comment, life, uh, finds a way

 

[Mation]

Jeff T Bowels..

Can High Dose Vitamin D3 Cure Your Disease? – Miracles of Vitamin D3

taked3.com

A rather interesting toll of advice.

passenger, that sets every warning klaxon I have to blaring at 11++.

Sound science doesn't promote itself with words like miracle and cure. The 'what doctors never learned...' bit plays into a sense of being privy to inside knowledge that is being withheld from us by the powers that be. That seems to me like a seductive lure, tapping into the real sense that we are governed by clowns and that it's nigh on impossible right now to have any agency in our lives unless something drastic happens to change things.

And now that something drastic has happened - covid and consequences - we've seen that, even this (particular thing) hasn't led to greater agency.

I've seen with my dad, a retired doctor, who has been in terrible pain for many years with severe and complicated back problems, just how appealing it can be to hear of the promise of relief. And just how disappointing and dangerous it can be to follow the miracle cure purveyors.

Vitamin D may well be part of what will help you, but I'd strongly warn against following the advice of anyone who has absolute certainty that they are right (and hope that I haven't put you off my advice, by myself veering towards certainty!)

 

[WouldBe]

I'm aware of the way science works.

What theory?

The one where vit D deficiency is implicated in dozens of different medical problems. That rings alarm bells for me.

One of the medical problems is the 'link' to MS. MS is attributed to an 'over active' immune system. Vit D is needed to 'strengthen' the immune system. So a deficiency would 'impare' the immune system which is contra-intuitive and doesn't make sense. I noticed that even the MS society have this on their website but state that the link is to a deficiency of vit D in childhood which if that was the unlikely cause then taking high dose vit D in adulthood post diagnosis is unlikely to have any effect.

* Words in ' ' may not be the right choice as I'm having word finding problems this morning.

 

[gentlegreen]

Horrendous to learn about the resurgence in rickets in the UK

As an ageing "vegan" (I haven't entirely ruled out eating moderately sustainable sea creatures in the future) - steering away from fortified foods, and aiming to stay lean and therefore eating at least 200 fewer kcals per day, I suppose I need to look at calcium supplementation too.

I feel I should have been on this a lot earlier - but then I was also very careless about B12 until a dietary review in 2015 thanks to the Internet - I suppose I must have had just enough fortified food to save me - even back in the early 80s when I adopted the diet .. my supplementation was always very sporadic...

 

[8ball]

The one where vit D deficiency is implicated in dozens of different medical problems. That rings alarm bells for me.

One of the medical problems is the 'link' to MS. MS is attributed to an 'over active' immune system. Vit D is needed to 'strengthen' the immune system. So a deficiency would 'impare' the immune system which is contra-intuitive and doesn't make sense. I noticed that even the MS society have this on their website but state that the link is to a deficiency of vit D in childhood which if that was the unlikely cause then taking high dose vit D in adulthood post diagnosis is unlikely to have any effect.

* Words in ' ' may not be the right choice as I'm having word finding problems this morning.

Immunology is horrifically complicated and vitamin D gets changed into a host of active metabolites. Deficiency is known to affect susceptibility to infection, and I was reading something in the Lancet about some metabolites inhibiting processes by which T cells can become pathogenic.

I agree with you about the ropey language which seems to confuse “turning up” and “turning down”, but the picture they seem to be groping at appears to be one with some backing (I haven’t dug deeply into any materials - happy to provide links to what I have seen - my grasp of immunology isn’t up to discussion of Th17 pathogenicity pathways and suchlike - I work tangentially with monoclonal antibody studies and just have enough surface level knowledge to sanity check the “if this, then that” level of my involvement).

 

[Mation]

The one where vit D deficiency is implicated in dozens of different medical problems. That rings alarm bells for me.

That's not a theory.

Implicated means there's a suggestion that something may be involved. There are many such suggestions about vitamin D and disease/s. Doesn't mean that all of them will hold, but does give some pointers on things to try to find out more about, if any of the things are relevant to oneself.

I really can't see why you think any theory was being promoted.