Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency

[InArduisFouette]

yes. utterly, depressingly predictable. Women's issues being belittled and stamped on.

Once again your interesting ability to misread everything in such a way as to make the fault of trans people comes to the fore ...
the fact is VAWG does not care about AGAB and that there are a woprrying number of cisgender women happy to throw Cisgender Lesbians, Cisgender Women who do not adhere to a Stepford model of feminity and womenhood under the buss because it might hurt some trans people in doing so is paort of the issue...

see also trans vestigations

see also the calls from the like of Kellie-Jay Keen for armed men to 'police' toilet access and of course the unwritten subtext of that which is the Unaliving of women who do not meet standards of feminity of the fascists funding these transphobes is acceptable

 

[Silas Loom]

Silas Loom and what evidence do you have the your registry would stop women getting punched in the face, controlled, coerced etc? It what if it happens and she didn't consult the register? Her fault?!

No, hang about, this is a little unfair, surely. I’m just suggesting that it should be easier for women to warn other women about abusers in a fragmented and mobile society.

You could argue that any mitigation against VAWG could be used to blame women if it isn’t used, from calling the police to staying in a refuge.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I'm struggling to see the transphobic and misogynistic slur in:

I think you need to either back your assertion up or apologise to xenon tbh.

the fact that the nospace format of referring to transgender women seems to have escaped you trans (a sa contraction of transgender or transsexual) is an Adjective it is NOT a prefix

does "asianwoman" make sense? "tallwoman" ? " blackwoman" ? " gayman" ? ( using man there in that last example as lesbian stands alone as a word replacing the adjective+ noun coupling)

trans woman - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Is this how it's going to be now?

 

[Sue]

the fact that the nospace format of referring to transgender women seems to have escaped you trans (a sa contraction of transgender or transsexual) is an Adjective it is NOT a prefix

does "asianwoman" make sense? "tallwoman" ? " blackwoman" ? " gayman" ? ( using man there in that last example as lesbian stands alone as a word replacing the adjective+ noun coupling)

trans woman - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

It had indeed escaped me. I'd no idea writing 'transwoman' rather than 'trans woman' was transphobic. I'll make sure I write 'trans woman' in future.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I’m imagining something more informal and more accessible than current schemes - anyway this is brainstorming rather than anything fully formed. The existing disclosure schemes don’t allow people to share suspicions or gossip.

Guess what , Suspicions and gossip are potnetially malicious and untested, you can always tell who the bullies are OR ( and this is the bigger group) the people who were protected by teachers / bossses from the bullies rather than being used as the punching bag becasue they don't see the issue with unproven / unevidence gosip suspicions being used to censure.

well founded accusations which cross the lines of reasonable suspicion / probable cause/ balance of probability are investigated and recorded on their merits, in Safeguarding apattern of concerns / suspicions can be enough to instigate full action but it requires reporting and it requires everyone who has the obligation even if not manadated to contribute to thhis evidence gathering

 

[xenon]

the fact that the nospace format of referring to transgender women seems to have escaped you trans (a sa contraction of transgender or transsexual) is an Adjective it is NOT a prefix

does "asianwoman" make sense? "tallwoman" ? " blackwoman" ? " gayman" ? ( using man there in that last example as lesbian stands alone as a word replacing the adjective+ noun coupling)

trans woman - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

So because I missed a space out, you think I'm a transphobe? Even the article you linked to says that formulation is used by some trans people.

This kind of toxic misreading of people's posts is exactly the sort of thing I was criticising you for originally.

 

[InArduisFouette]

It had indeed escaped me. I'd no idea writing 'transwoman' rather than 'trans woman' was transphobic. I'll make sure I write 'trans woman' in future.

thank you for that statement

this comes back to the way in which the policing of womenahood and feminity contributes to VAWG


transphobia driven harassment of and violence towards cisgender women is a real thing

Butch lesbian opens up about 'increasing harassment' she faces when using the public toilets

The Government is carrying out a consultation into the provision of public toilets for men, women and gender-diverse people

inews.co.uk

NEWS: Butch lesbians are facing “increasing harassment” in public toilets

Eloise Stonborough has opened up about the assault she has faced as the Government launch a consultation into public toilets BY SOPHIE GRIFFITHS Hostility towards butch lesbians in public bat…

diva-magazine.com

Transgender People, Bathrooms, and Sexual Predators: What the Data Say

Content Warning: while I will not be describing any actual instances of sexual violence or child sexual abuse, these issues (and false…

juliaserano.medium.com

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0038026120934697

Heather Fisher: 'I lost a part of my personality' - how World Cup-winner dealt with alopecia, body confidence and harassment

Sky Sports News spent time 2014 Rugby World Cup-winner Heather Fisher, as she reflected on what it means to be a woman in sport in a world that treats her as a man five or six times a day, a year on from her retirement from the sport.

www.skysports.com

Heather Fisher: Rugby player opens up on her life with alopecia

Team GB rugby player Heather Fisher says she "dreads" using public toilets as she is frequently mistaken for a man because of her alopecia.

www.bbc.co.uk

Lesbian asked to leave bowling alley for using women's bathroom in Australia

They were celebrating their birthdays when the incident occurred.

www.thepinknews.com

 

[xenon]

It had indeed escaped me. I'd no idea writing 'transwoman' rather than 'trans woman' was transphobic. I'll make sure I write 'trans woman' in future.

Me neither. And it doesn't appear to be a universally held opinion even according to the link. Anyway happy to leave this now and will use the 2 word form in future for avoidance of doubt.

 

[InArduisFouette]

So because I missed a space out, you think I'm a transphobe? Even the article you linked to says that formulation is used by some trans people.

This kind of toxic misreading of people's posts is exactly the sort of thing I was criticising you for originally.

it's amazing how you manage to confirm what you assert not to be with your response here

Notice Sue's response to the same posting ...

 

[Silas Loom]

Guess what , Suspicions and gossip are potnetially malicious and untested, you can always tell who the bullies are OR ( and this is the bigger group) the people who were protected by teachers / bossses from the bullies rather than being used as the punching bag becasue they don't see the issue with unproven / unevidence gosip suspicions being used to censure.

well founded accusations which cross the lines of reasonable suspicion / probable cause/ balance of probability are investigated and recorded on their merits, in Safeguarding apattern of concerns / suspicions can be enough to instigate full action but it requires reporting and it requires everyone who has the obligation even if not manadated to contribute to thhis evidence gathering

I don’t recognise that characterisation of bullies; it’s not clear what you’re talking about.

The current methods of protecting women by identifying abusers and intervening appropriately seem to be failing. I’m just wondering how they could be augmented, by something that is third sector and more organic and less frictionful and more accessible.

Education and socialisation of boys, and changing the culture of masculinity, is the ultimate answer, of course, but it may take a while to show results.

 

[burtabraham]

Maybe it should be easier for women to warn other women about abusive men. Some sort of registry, administered neutrally, which protects the identity of complainants. Crucially, women who are concerned about the safety of other women should be able to check up on their possibly abusive partners, ie the registry shouldn’t just be open to potential victims.

What's to stop people lying?

 

[xenon]

it's amazing how you manage to confirm what you assert not to be with your response here

Notice Sue's response to the same posting ...

Cos you effectively called me a transphobe and misogyst based on using an apparently incorrect word, which I was unaware of until 5 minutes ago.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I don’t recognise that characterisation of bullies; it’s not clear what you’re talking about.

The current methods of protecting women by identifying abusers and intervening appropriately seem to be failing. I’m just wondering how they could be augmented, by something that is third sector and more organic and less frictionful and more accessible.

Education and socialisation of boys, and changing the culture of masculinity, is the ultimate answer, of course, but it may take a while to show results.

bullies like to use whatever means necessary to marginalise , exclude and remove their targets especially if their target is professional threat

it is very common In Education ( for staff) and Healthcare (especially Nursing ) for there to be whispering campaigns and/or selective investigation of concerns agains people depending on the whim of Managers , we see the same in the class room with some students being picked up for every infraction while others are allowed to harrass, assault and spread lies with impunity

 

[purenarcotic]

A register of abusers has been touted before and few within the VAWG sector like it as a concept, primarily because of the way it will likely be used against victims. Ironically, women are blamed for going into refuge, they are blamed for calling the police… this happens more often than people realise.

What needs to be done is, like danny la rouge says, ultimately a structural change. This takes time, is complicated, requires people to feel safe enough to self reflect and not get drawn into entrenched positions where people just shout at each other without listening. The internet is very bad at creating that kind of environment, but it can be done more easily in person.

On an individual basis;

• believe her. Even if it’s your bestest mate in the world that she says has done something. Believe her.
• support your local DV services. I’ve said before on other threads, but refuge closure rates are happening at crazy rates despite rising reporting rates. There is nowhere for women to go. Understand that a refuge run by a generic housing association, or the dreaded ‘supported accommodation’ provider is simply not the same as a specialist women’s service. Fight for that specialist provision. It is necessary and it saves lives.
• take an active interest in what your local council is funding in terms of VAWG provision. There has been cutting by stealth through the funding of programmes for abusers whilst directly cutting victims services. This isn’t working and it shouldn’t be happening

I’m sure there’s more but I am so tired of this.

 

[Silas Loom]

What's to stop people lying?

That’s the perennial problem with reviews on the internet. Most of us have heuristics to identify genuine user feedback from promotional spam or unwarranted criticism, though, so it’s not a completely insurmountable objection.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Cos you effectively called me a transphobe and misogyst based on using an apparently incorrect word, which I was unaware of until 5 minutes ago.

this is always interesting when you have to include the following sentence in fact find or investigation ,

"< the respondant> appears to lack insight and denies that their actions caused offence "

 

[Silas Loom]

A register of abusers has been touted before and few within the VAWG sector like it as a concept, primarily because of the way it will likely be used against victims. Ironically, women are blamed for going into refuge, they are blamed for calling the police… this happens more often than people realise.

What needs to be done is, like danny la rouge says, ultimately a structural change. This takes time, is complicated, requires people to feel safe enough to self reflect and not get drawn into entrenched positions where people just shout at each other without listening. The internet is very bad at creating that kind of environment, but it can be done more easily in person.

On an individual basis;

• believe her. Even if it’s your bestest mate in the world that she says has done something. Believe her.
• support your local DV services. I’ve said before on other threads, but refuge closure rates are happening at crazy rates despite rising reporting rates. There is nowhere for women to go. Understand that a refuge run by a generic housing association, or the dreaded ‘supported accommodation’ provider is simply not the same as a specialist women’s service. Fight for that specialist provision. It is necessary and it saves lives.
• take an active interest in what your local council is funding in terms of VAWG provision. There has been cutting by stealth through the funding of programmes for abusers whilst directly cutting victims services. This isn’t working and it shouldn’t be happening

I’m sure there’s more but I am so tired of this.

Thanks, if it’s an old suggestion and VAWG experts don’t like it, I’ll shut up.

Really important practical suggestions there about supporting and protecting DV and VAWG services.

 

[Sue]

it's amazing how you manage to confirm what you assert not to be with your response here

Notice Sue's response to the same posting ...

I don't think xenon is misogynistic or transphobic. He and I missed out a space in a word. We were both unaware that this was viewed by some as transphobic until you raised it. We now are aware.

Now, how about leaving this here and getting back to the topic of the thread?

 

[InArduisFouette]

A register of abusers has been touted before and few within the VAWG sector like it as a concept, primarily because of the way it will likely be used against victims. Ironically, women are blamed for going into refuge, they are blamed for calling the police… this happens more often than people realise.

What needs to be done is, like danny la rouge says, ultimately a structural change. This takes time, is complicated, requires people to feel safe enough to self reflect and not get drawn into entrenched positions where people just shout at each other without listening. The internet is very bad at creating that kind of environment, but it can be done more easily in person.

On an individual basis;

• believe her. Even if it’s your bestest mate in the world that she says has done something. Believe her.
• support your local DV services. I’ve said before on other threads, but refuge closure rates are happening at crazy rates despite rising reporting rates. There is nowhere for women to go. Understand that a refuge run by a generic housing association, or the dreaded ‘supported accommodation’ provider is simply not the same as a specialist women’s service. Fight for that specialist provision. It is necessary and it saves lives.
• take an active interest in what your local council is funding in terms of VAWG provision. There has been cutting by stealth through the funding of programmes for abusers whilst directly cutting victims services. This isn’t working and it shouldn’t be happening

I’m sure there’s more but I am so tired of this.

all very valid points

also pertinent to point out that we have seen VAWG services targetted by people claiming to be 'women's rights campaigners' as we have seen in a large Scottish City , where a certain person is directly implicated in attempting to get the existing service closed becasue she dislikes the mutiply marginalised woman who manages it and replaced by one run by fellow white cisgender misogynistic ideologues

 

[burtabraham]

That’s the perennial problem with reviews on the internet. Most of us have heuristics to identify genuine user feedback from promotional spam or unwarranted criticism, though, so it’s not a completely insurmountable objection.

Accusations of DV are a tad more serious than fake amazon reviews. The consequence of one is you waste a tenner on a crappy iPhone charger, and the consequence of the other is an innocent person's life is ruined

 

[InArduisFouette]

That’s the perennial problem with reviews on the internet. Most of us have heuristics to identify genuine user feedback from promotional spam or unwarranted criticism, though, so it’s not a completely insurmountable objection.

except it;s not

how many peopel get scammed ? 9 the 'safe account' scams , the paying a 'government fine' in giftcards ...

how many of your boomer friends and relations have been 'hacked' on facebook ( funny term for being stupid enough to give an unknown bad actor your login details) ...

 

[GarveyLives]

Violence against women is a "National Emergency" according to police​

Is this the sort of thing that the police are referring to?

 

[Silas Loom]

Accusations of DV are a tad more serious than fake amazon reviews. The consequence of one is you waste a tenner on a crappy iPhone charger, and the consequence of the other is an innocent person's life is ruined

Ruined? But men who have hit other women in the past are often quite good at convincing new partners that they have changed and won’t hit them, until they hit them. Men accused of DV seem to get a fairly easy ride.

If there’s one thing we know about VAWG, it’s that false allegations are massively outweighed by true ones that aren’t sustained or acted upon.

Dropping the idea, though, because of what Pure Narcotic says about the likely repercussions for victims, and she clearly knows her onions.

 

[Callie]

Is this the sort of thing that the police are referring to?

Quite. Good to hear the police recognise there is an issue. Now sort out your house

 

[A380]

And watch as another thread about men’s violence against women becomes a few men waving their willies at each other and telling women they are wrong…

 

[Callie]

And watch as another thread about men’s violence against women becomes a few men waving their willies at each other …

We can all take steps to reduce the likelihood of that happening I think. Keep on subject, don't start bickering, if you find yourself going down that route take a step back and stop.

 

[existentialist]

And what part would men play in this? Really, I'm utterly fucking fed up of the onus being on women to manage this shit.

We can educate our sons, too. And we can act as examples of how to behave properly towards others, and call out behaviours which fall below the standard.

 

[A380]

Very interesting segment on Women’s Hour about this. Whilst not using the ‘not all men’ trope, pointing out that it is important for the majority of men who are aghast at VaW not to cede the public discourse to the (unfortunately) sizeable minority of men who seek to normalise it. Completely the responsibility of all men to do this .

( see also racism, homophobia etc etc etc etc…)

 

[what]

Very interesting segment on Women’s Hour about this. Whilst not using the ‘not all men’ trope, pointing out that it is important for the majority of men who are aghast at VaW not to cede the public discourse to the (unfortunately) sizeable minority of men who seek to normalise it. Completely the responsibility of all men to do this .

( see also racism, homophobia etc etc etc etc…)

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