Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency

[ElizabethofYork]

I suppose the first thing we can do is all agree on what exactly a woman is. Once we have done that, we can enforce women-only spaces where their pricey, dignity and safety can be guaranteed.

Fuck off. Why should I have to go to 'women-only' spaces to be safe? I'm a full member of society.

 

[Sue]

and here we fucking go straight away calling women who you don't like and who hold current structures of condoning violence from cisgender men either men or none women ...

No, I'm asking everyone to keep this on topic.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

you seem to be forgetting that you have form and plenty of reciepts for supporting misogyny when you espouse yourt Gender Critical Talking points

What the actual fuck are you talking about?

 

[InArduisFouette]

But violence against women goes back far beyond "gender critical" ideas. It's not a root cause.

funny how in the aftermath of losing on (partial) marriage equality the unholy alliabnce of the far right and evangelic Christians decided to focus on the 'bathroom predator myth' as their next target to control women and then when they realised that Gender Affirming care for young people was a way to get in and dismantle the likes of Gillick...

 

[bemused]

The cause is men feeling entitled to use violence against women and girls, surely. What's the point in focusing on the obvious? As a woman, I want to know what can be done about it. Why the fuck do I have to be worried about walking down the street, or going about my every day business? Are you suggesting I need to focus on what I'm doing wrong? Fuck that.

A policeman I know once told me that people generally commit crimes because they aren't worried about being caught and punished. We've just had a man convicted for planning to kidnap, rape and murder a woman who'd attempted to kidnap a woman in the past and did about a year in jail for it. The overall punishment must meet the crime and the resources to support the victims need to be in place for that to happen.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Fuck off. Why should I have to go to 'women-only' spaces to be safe? I'm a full member of society.

because guess what , Urbanspaceman like others who use 'Gender Critical ' talking points treats women as property and their value is contingent on their utility to men

 

[xenon]

and here we fucking go straight away calling women who you don't like and who hold current structures of condoning violence from cisgender men either men or none women ...

transphobia and the faux narrative of transgender women as predatorts both harms all women and girls ( look how many cisgender women and girls have been attacked becasue people think they are trans ) and distracts from the violence perpetrated by cisgender men, to the point where you have white , privileged cisgender women endorsing, supportinfg and succouring t abusive white cisgender men as 'protectors '

She hasn't done that you maniac.

Can't the thread discuss what's to be done re violence against women including transwomen the causes etc, without accusing posters of things they haven't said.

 

[LakieLady]

Fuck off. Why should I have to go to 'women-only' spaces to be safe? I'm a full member of society.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Women get assaulted in the street, in their homes, on public transport and all sorts of places. I don't want to have wait for the women-only bus or walk a women-only route home.

We don't need women-only spaces, we need men to stop attacking women, everywhere. And to teach their sons that it is wrong.

 

[Sue]

Maybe it should be easier for women to warn other women about abusive men. Some sort of registry, administered neutrally, which protects the identity of complainants. Crucially, women who are concerned about the safety of other women should be able to check up on their possibly abusive partners, ie the registry shouldn’t just be open to potential victims.

And what part would men play in this? Really, I'm utterly fucking fed up of the onus being on women to manage this shit.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Women get assaulted in the street, in their homes, on public transport and all sorts of places. I don't want to have wait for the women-only bus or walk a women-only route home.

We don't need women-only spaces, we need men to stop attacking women, everywhere. And to teach their sons that it is wrong.

yet here we are when the likes of JKR are currently cheering on violence against women with their wank-addled pornsick fantasising and people asserting to be of the left and / or feminists refuse to acknowledge that , despite time and time again the victims of this specific subset of violence are cisgender women and the perpetrators are always cisgender men.

 

[Silas Loom]

And what part would men play in this? Really, I'm utterly fucking fed up of the onus being on women to manage this shit.

I’m suggesting that women would have privileged access to a known abusers registry, not that they should be responsible for funding and building and managing it!

 

[InArduisFouette]

She hasn't done that you maniac.

Can't the thread discuss what's to be done re violence against women including transwomen the causes etc, without accusing posters of things they haven't said.

The fact you can't even make that criticism without the use of a transphobic and misogynistic slur says a lot

 

[danny la rouge]

As a cis-male pro trans feminist, I’m probably not the person to be laying the law down here, but this is surely a topic we can all find agreement on rather than splitting into identity factions and re-rehearsing a different battle.

 

[Dystopiary]

I think focusing on deterrents and punishment (and yes, "tips" on how women should protect themselves ) while avoiding the issue of misogyny is missing the point.

I think the causes of social constructions of “manliness” are the problem. The societal structures of patriarchy that lead to the expressions of those power differentials in violent ways.

This will mean looking at society rather than individuals, although that does not excuse the choices made by individuals.

Yes and it starts young. Children are bombarded with damaging messages about gender from day one.

Boys don't cry, man up, a big strong boy like you, that's for girls etc etc. Little things that drip-feed a message of toxic masculinity.

 

[danny la rouge]

I think focusing on deterrents and punishment (and yes, "tips" on how women should protect themselves ) while avoiding the issue of misogyny is missing the point.

Absolutely. That approach is victim blaming mentality.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I’m suggesting that women would have privileged access, not that they should be responsible for funding and building and managing it!

why should women have privileged access ?

are you denying that DV happens in same sex relationships?
are you denying that despite the evidence on numbers / proprtion that DV perpetrated by women towards men doesn;t happen ( and is still scandalously under reported becasue of this same toxic masculinity that drives VAWG , and there is the same kind of 'believe the victim' credibility gap that used to exist with men committing DV against women ) ...

 

[Sue]

I’m suggesting that women would have privileged access, not that they should be responsible for funding and building and managing it!

You misunderstand me. 'Managing' as in providing information and checking and accessing and informing other women about violent men.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

why should women have privileged access ?

are you denying that DV happens in same sex relationships?
are you denying that despite the evidence on numbers / proprtion that DV perpetrated by women towards men doesn;t happen ( and is still scandalously under reported becasue of this same toxic masculinity that drives VAWG , and there is the same kind of 'believe the victim' credibility gap that used to exist with men committing DV against women ) ...

"What about the Menz"

 

[xenon]

The fact you can't even make that criticism without the use of a transphobic and misogynistic slur says a lot

 

[InArduisFouette]

Yes and it starts young. Children are bombarded with damaging messages about gender from day one.

Boys don't cry, man up, a big strong boy like you, that's for girls etc etc. Little things that drip-feed a message of toxic masculinity.

and the fact the far right / evangelicals unholy allaince calls people having information about sexuality, relationships, CONSENT and boundaries ' Gender Ideology' says a hell of a lot

the actual " Gender Ideology" is the cis-het -allo normatively crammed down people's throats basically from their day they are born , if propaganda influenced people's Sexuality and/or Gender Identity everyone whould be Cis-het

 

[InArduisFouette]

"What about the Menz"

and here we go ... how predictable

 

[Silas Loom]

why should women have privileged access ?

are you denying that DV happens in same sex relationships?
are you denying that despite the evidence on numbers / proprtion that DV perpetrated by women towards men doesn;t happen ( and is still scandalously under reported becasue of this same toxic masculinity that drives VAWG , and there is the same kind of 'believe the victim' credibility gap that used to exist with men committing DV against women ) ...

Because the vast majority of intimate partner violence is perpetrated by men on women, and if there’s some way for social shaming to address that, it makes sense to focus on it first. Just like most refuges and other DV services focus on women who have been abused by men.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

and here we go ... how predictable

yes. utterly, depressingly predictable. Women's issues being belittled and stamped on.

 

[belboid]

I suppose it is vaguely helpful that the police are officially recognising the problem. Of course, as we know all too well, the police are also a major part of the problem, not just in the behaviour of thousands of their male officers but in the way the they, male and female, fail to investigate, hold appallingly stereotyped views of victimhood and generally uphold a system that makes women second class citizens.

Until they get their house own order, they will of little use in meeting, Starmers target, of reducing violence against women and girls by half. Of course that target is itself rather absurd, as he hasn't proposed anything serious to meet it. The idea of expanding SARCs and other support to every station is lovely, and might help a bit, if it weren't for the fact that recruitment is abysmally low, they haven't promised any real extra resources and it still won't affect the fact that most rapes (and assaults) go unreported.

 

[Silas Loom]

You misunderstand me. 'Managing' as in providing information and checking and accessing and informing other women about violent men.

Apologies for the misunderstanding. Yeah, it’s not ideal, but if something like that is going to protect women, it surely needs to exclude men? Just like a DV refuge would?

 

[InArduisFouette]

Because the vast majority of intimate partner violence is perpetrated by men on women, and if there’s some way for social shaming to address that, it makes sense to focus on it first. Just like most refuges and other DV services focus on women who have been abused by men.

I think you are missing the point, if you set up , as there all ready are , multi agency systems where people can seem information on potential /actual partners and whether they are know the CJS/Health/social care for DV/ safeguarding issues ... why should access to disclosures be privleged to women ?

e.g. "Sarah's law" Child Safeguarding / CSE and "Clare's Law" the Domestic Violence disclosure schemes

 

[Callie]

I’m suggesting that women would have privileged access to a known abusers registry, not that they should be responsible for funding and building and managing it!

But they have to search a registry for every relationship they form with a male? Sounds great. I fucking love admin me

 

[Callie]

Silas Loom and what evidence do you have the your registry would stop women getting punched in the face, controlled, coerced etc? It what if it happens and she didn't consult the register? Her fault?!

 

[Sue]

The fact you can't even make that criticism without the use of a transphobic and misogynistic slur says a lot

I'm struggling to see the transphobic and misogynistic slur in:

She hasn't done that you maniac.

Can't the thread discuss what's to be done re violence against women including transwomen the causes etc, without accusing posters of things they haven't said.

I think you need to either back your assertion up or apologise to xenon tbh.

 

[Silas Loom]

I’m imagining something more informal and more accessible than current schemes - anyway this is brainstorming rather than anything fully formed. The existing disclosure schemes don’t allow people to share suspicions or gossip.