VAT on Private Schools Kicks In
- Thread starter Mr Retro
- Start date
Thora
Differently Ethical
Don't prep schools specifically prep for those though? I thought that was the whole point of them/that's what you're paying for?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Some does, some doesn't.
Any attempt to close the Catholic schools in Scotland has engendered white hot fury. As far as I'm aware there are no Protestant schools in Scotland.Definitely this should be a priority - certainly stop the state funding them.
The Humanists have been campaigning on this for a while but sadly there's very little traction.
State-funded faith schools
Around a third of all state-funded schools in England and Wales are schools ‘with a religious character’ – the legal term for ‘faith schools’, as they are known in England and Wales, or denominational schools, as they are known in Scotland and Northern Ireland. This number has grown in recent...humanists.uk
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Isn’t part of all this simply about equality between private businesses.
If ‘Pure Gym’ has to pay the vat, then why not private schools?
If ‘Pure Gym’ has to pay the vat, then why not private schools?
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
Belt and braces like I suppose. It’s hard to get her to do maths homework at the moment so she might need help there for example.
Maybe not but I see a lot of me in her academically that I’d like to steer her away from. Capable but not really prepared to do the things she doesn’t like doing.
Worth pointing out that schools are unlikely to pass on all the VAT. When it was removed from tampons etc prices didn't go down. Schools mostly will be charging how much they can get away with- they aren't charities after all...
www.theguardian.com
UK retailers not passing on tampon tax savings to women, report says
Exclusive: Abolition of 5% VAT on period products only resulted in 1% cut in prices at most, research finds
Thora
Differently Ethical
I'd be fuming if I paid thousands a year for education and then had to pay even more for private tuition because the school didn't actually do a sufficient job.
But I guess the point of private schools is only partially about the education.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Maybe I need more coffee, but I can't get my head around this.Worth pointing out that schools are unlikely to pass on all the VAT. When it was removed from tampons etc prices didn't go down. Schools mostly will be charging how much they can get away with- they aren't charities after all...
UK retailers not passing on tampon tax savings to women, report says
Exclusive: Abolition of 5% VAT on period products only resulted in 1% cut in prices at most, research finds
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yeah.Worth pointing out that schools are unlikely to pass on all the VAT. When it was removed from tampons etc prices didn't go down. Schools mostly will be charging how much they can get away with- they aren't charities after all...
UK retailers not passing on tampon tax savings to women, report says
Exclusive: Abolition of 5% VAT on period products only resulted in 1% cut in prices at most, research finds
Some schools are passing on the whole 20% - at both ends of the market.
Others are passing on a portion and 'making savings elsewhere' in order to absorb the rest.
What don't you understand? Businesses charge what people are prepared to pay for a product.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Most of them are. Charities for the rich.Worth pointing out that schools are unlikely to pass on all the VAT. When it was removed from tampons etc prices didn't go down. Schools mostly will be charging how much they can get away with- they aren't charities after all...
UK retailers not passing on tampon tax savings to women, report says
Exclusive: Abolition of 5% VAT on period products only resulted in 1% cut in prices at most, research finds
Eton College is a charity!
I mentioned this group though because they're the only group that will feel the VAT hit. The rich families who send their children to private school won't even notice it. It's not that I care if the affluent middle class get taxed, it's just that it seems an odd group to target as they're often ime New Labour voters.Only about 7 per cent of kids in England attend private schools and I imagine the percentage of those coming from the homes of 'well-off middle class Labour voters' to be pretty small.
And the numbers are even smaller out of England:
Ask Full Fact: How many pupils attend independent schools? - Full Fact
578,975 pupils in England attended an independent (non-government funded) school in January 2014, according to the Department of Education school census—that's around 7% of all pupils. <img alt="" …fullfact.org
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
The bit about Tampax, and what it has to do with schools.
The bit about schools not being charities, when most private schools are probably registered charities.
Thora
Differently Ethical
He's just saying that it's business - schools will pass on the VAT costs if it makes business sense and they won't/will make cuts elsewhere if they don't think their customers will pay.
Eg tampax didn't pass on VAT savings to customers as they knew they could still charge full price.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Charity or no, they still have to attract students and are part of a 'market' for private education.
It's not 20% anyway. Even the government says it's effectvely around 15%, and it might be less than that if the schools have done a lot of building.
editor
hiraethified
Struggling to give much of a shit about really well off Labour voters who send their kids to private schools, to be honest.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
It’s fully about education for us and our daughter. It’s just competition is very high for the best secondary schools so I want to ensure she gets in one (one in particular). Might be my own insecurities too.
That the VAT won't necessarily be passed on to parents paying. People campaigned ro remove VAT from tampons and ended up just increasing businesses profits.
I was making a joke...
I think you're reading my post wrong, I don't give a shit either. I was just thinking it was a strange strategy to solidify voters - and yes, an aside to the conversation.
I don't believe there should be private or religious schools, schools should be free and equal for everyone and way more inclusive than we could ever hope for with the current system.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I can't see the likes of Eton appearing in the reduced to clear section anytime soon. I reckon the only ones that might not fully pass on the VAT will be the lower end posh schools.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Eton has passed the full 20% on, because it can.
Other schools lower down the food chain have passed the full 20% on 'cos they can't cut anything and remain competitive.
Most fall elsewhere, where how much they pass on depends on the market and what they think will give them an edge over their competitors.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
It's also worth noting, that prior to COVID fees had risen across the sector by about 20% over the preceding decade, yet numbers remained steady.
Some slack is filled by (predominantly Chinese and Russian) overseas boarders, but this only accounts for the small proportion of boarding schools.
As I said upthread, the rich have been doing very well for themselves in recent years and will "have trousered" way more in increased wealth than they're now having to shell out.
These increases will just bottom slice a small % of the market.
Some slack is filled by (predominantly Chinese and Russian) overseas boarders, but this only accounts for the small proportion of boarding schools.
As I said upthread, the rich have been doing very well for themselves in recent years and will "have trousered" way more in increased wealth than they're now having to shell out.
These increases will just bottom slice a small % of the market.
AnnaKarpik
Queen of all she surveys
Of course Eton offers non-educational services. There's board and lodging and child care for one thing - outsourced to Eton College Hospitality (or similar). Maintenance of the buildings and grounds is presumably outsourced to the construction company, which is also building a college up north somewhere, if memory serves. The only thing Eton College proper does is teach, collect fees and pay the teaching staff. And of course pay the catering and building companies.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
If they pass on the full 20% then they're taking advantage of the situation to up their income significantly. Not so surprising, despite the bleating about this, that many of them are doing exactly that.
editor
hiraethified
I think in terms of positive, feel-good PR, Labour's strategy of taxing posh private schools will prove such a hit amongst their electorate that it's worth upsetting the tiny minority of their school-fee paying voters.
Silas Loom
A lome the lenthe of a yerde
But are any of those services VATable? Board and lodging isn’t. I’m still struggling to understand how input VAT could have been taken into account by a subsidiary in previous years without any obvious source of charged VAT.
Sorry if I’m being thick, but I thought I had a handle on this stuff and I suspect that we’re likely arguing the same thing, that there are no fiendish scams in operation.
I didn't actually think that Labour had any left wing voters left, I thought it was only New Labour types. But I don't follow in detail.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
My understanding from reading this today is that they don't need to have previously been VAT registered to claim back VAT paid over the last ten years on building projects. That's what this says:
Eton among elite private schools set to cash in on windfall from new VAT rules
They can claim it back over the next ten years. Places like Eton are being pretty barefaced by passing on the full 20%.
Yes, when I went VAT registered more than a decade ago I was surprised that HMRC told me I could claim back on certain things I had paid VAT on before going registered. I had bought a new truck a few years previously so I was very pleased to be able to claim the VAT back on that.
I was most surprised by the fact that my accountant didn't even know about it and I had to send him a link to the HMRC page.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
On Labour party.
Back when I was school in 70s the local Council brought in comprehensive schools. The Labour government of time abolished the Direct Grant system. Which meant someone like me could go to public school.
I vaguely remember at time this was an issue.
The public school I was at had only one or two people per year on the Direct Grant system. Majority were fee payers.
There were two public schools in Plymouth. One for boys ( still going) and one for girls. The one for girls had a lot of students on direct grant. When that was ended they made decision to join the state sector and become a comprehensive school.
My public school made sure only few people like me got in. They didn't rely indirectly on state funding.
I remember at morning assembly the Headmaster proudly saying the school would remain Independent. I was disappointed.
Do to take it to present day. This small change by Labour government could be possible first move.
One way to bring in reformist changes is incremental. Gradually make the their lives so hard they give in.
It partially worked in 70s.
In 60s and 70s the public school system did feel under threat. Culturally and politically. Social norms were changing from a deferential culture. The kind of values public schools instilled appeared anachronistic.
If not so much in a town like Plymouth with military presence.
What I find interesting is that this change stalled. Until now.
And the whining starts.
I do remember at school being told by one teacher that the conservative party was the natural party of government and the ( Labour party) was socialism. Which was alien to the British way of life.
Back when I was school in 70s the local Council brought in comprehensive schools. The Labour government of time abolished the Direct Grant system. Which meant someone like me could go to public school.
I vaguely remember at time this was an issue.
The public school I was at had only one or two people per year on the Direct Grant system. Majority were fee payers.
There were two public schools in Plymouth. One for boys ( still going) and one for girls. The one for girls had a lot of students on direct grant. When that was ended they made decision to join the state sector and become a comprehensive school.
My public school made sure only few people like me got in. They didn't rely indirectly on state funding.
I remember at morning assembly the Headmaster proudly saying the school would remain Independent. I was disappointed.
Do to take it to present day. This small change by Labour government could be possible first move.
One way to bring in reformist changes is incremental. Gradually make the their lives so hard they give in.
It partially worked in 70s.
In 60s and 70s the public school system did feel under threat. Culturally and politically. Social norms were changing from a deferential culture. The kind of values public schools instilled appeared anachronistic.
If not so much in a town like Plymouth with military presence.
What I find interesting is that this change stalled. Until now.
And the whining starts.
I do remember at school being told by one teacher that the conservative party was the natural party of government and the ( Labour party) was socialism. Which was alien to the British way of life.
