UNION related chat, reflections and experiences. Reps & members alike!

[Lord Camomile]

HE members to vote on industrial action over pay | News | News | UNISON National

No word about this to the branches, apparently

Will be interesting to see how this compares to previous years; are people getting more active, or are they fed up and/or too vulnerable to cause a ruckus?

 

[Pickman's model]

got my manager to join unison yesterday, the successful culmination of five years of working on him

 

[equationgirl]

got my manager to join unison yesterday, the successful culmination of five years of working on him

Well done you

 

[Lord Camomile]

My branch AGM is scheduled for next week, slap bang in the middle of the last week of UCU action

There is one on the Saturday, and I know the sec and chair are worked really busy and doing their best, but it's not a great look.

 

[magneze]

I'm looking for an alternative to Unite as they can't seem to use the telephone. This has happened on multiple occasions.

According to the TUC website other alternatives are: CWU, PCS, Prospect

Any recommendations?

 

[redsquirrel]

I'm looking for an alternative to Unite as they can't seem to use the telephone. This has happened on multiple occasions.

According to the TUC website other alternatives are: CWU, PCS, Prospect

Any recommendations?

What industry are you in? What union(s) are your colleagues in? CWU are easily the best union of those alternatives but if they don't have a ability to bargain for you collectively, if none of your co-workers are members then they will be of limited use.

 

[magneze]

What industry are you in? What union(s) are your colleagues in? CWU are easily the best union of those alternatives but if they don't have a ability to bargain for you collectively, if none of your co-workers are members then they will be of limited use.

IT. Probably none.

Even simply being able to give advice on employment and redundancy matters would be useful.

Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Duncan2]

On Friday last I should have had an email asking me to respond "before June 30th" in the event that I would object to being put on a new period of furlough on a part-time basis.They stated (this multi-national) that taking this step would help them to minimise the redundancies which will need to be made come October.
Apart from the fact that I read on these boards (somewheres) that you can't be furloughed twice by the same employer I would also have liked to express my doubts that three months with staff on truncated hours could potentially save the employer a packet in redundancy payouts??
I never did get the email and neither did a number of colleagues to whom it also applies.This is what passes for Consultation in the 21st Century UK.

 

[Winot]

On Friday last I should have had an email asking me to respond "before June 30th" in the event that I would object to being put on a new period of furlough on a part-time basis.They stated (this multi-national) that taking this step would help them to minimise the redundancies which will need to be made come October.
Apart from the fact that I read on these boards (somewheres) that you can't be furloughed twice by the same employer I would also have liked to express my doubts that three months with staff on truncated hours could potentially save the employer a packet in redundancy payouts??
I never did get the email and neither did a number of colleagues to whom it also applies.This is what passes for Consultation in the 21st Century UK.

You can only be put on furlough if you agree to it. If you don’t agree then the employer can make you redundant (with the usual rules applying).

If you have agreed to furlough for a period and the employer wants to extend the agreed period then they need to ask again.

 

[Duncan2]

You can only be put on furlough if you agree to it. If you don’t agree then the employer can make you redundant (with the usual rules applying).

If you have agreed to furlough for a period and the employer wants to extend the agreed period then they need to ask again.

Cheers for that @Winot.Astonishingly they have replied to my email just a few minutes ago insisting that I agree "before June 30th" on the new "flexible" furlough.They have ignored my question as to whether an eventual redundancy payment could be reduced altogether so I guess I must assume that this is indeed likely if I volunteer for this new completely vague arrangement.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Cheers for that @Winot.Astonishingly they have replied to my email just a few minutes ago insisting that I agree "before June 30th" on the new "flexible" furlough.They have ignored my question as to whether an eventual redundancy payment could be reduced altogether so I guess I must assume that this is indeed likely if I volunteer for this new completely vague arrangement.

I think this is possibly not the best thread for this, and subject to the disclaimer that I'm not in HR and it's a while since I have been a union rep...

Initially, the coronavirus furlough scheme was 'all or nothing' - you either carried on working on your normal contract or you were off. I understand that you can now be on 'flexible furlough' where you work part time and government makes up (at leas most of) the difference.

Can't find much online that's aimed at workers not employers, this may help.

i agree with Winot that employers can't compel you to go on furlough, but may be better than redundancy.

i think you can be re-furloughed if circumstances change so it may be possible at some places that they furlough X percent of staff at a time (although as far as i'm aware, there's a minimum 3 week period for any furlough. i'm not sure if there's a minimum period back at work before you can be furloughed again.)

i'm fairly confident that being on furlough (or part time furlough) would not change your substantive full time pay for purposes of redundancy payments, and any time on furlough would still count for length of service for redundancy pay and so on.

i'd suggest seeking advice from your union if possible, or may be worth a phone call to ACAS if that's not an option.

ACAS page on furlough here - they do have a helpline that any employer or employee can call for advice (although they are probably kinda busy at the moment)

 

[Duncan2]

I think this is possibly not the best thread for this, and subject to the disclaimer that I'm not in HR and it's a while since I have been a union rep...

Cheers for all of the above Puddytat I reckon you are right about periods on furlough/part-time working being an irrelevance when it comes to working out any eventual severance pay.Getting cynical in my old age.Will check out the links you posted

 

[Lord Camomile]

Bit late notice, but just in case it's of interest to anyone TUC have got a whole load of online sessions organised over today, tomorrow and Saturday. I've signed up to quite a few

Organise 2020

 

[Duncan2]

Bump.Does anyone know in this post Brexit era whether the provisions of the Agency-Workers Directive still apply in the UK perhaps as a result of the European Communities Act 2018? Where I work they are currently having to bus in the Temps from fifty miles down the M1 I am curious to know whether after thirteen weeks they (the employer that is) will also have to bestow on the Temps the extra quid that permanent workers have just had??

 

[Guineveretoo]

Bump.Does anyone know in this post Brexit era whether the provisions of the Agency-Workers Directive still apply in the UK perhaps as a result of the European Communities Act 2018? Where I work they are currently having to bus in the Temps from fifty miles down the M1 I am curious to know whether after thirteen weeks they (the employer that is) will also have to bestow on the Temps the extra quid that permanent workers have just had??

This Directive became the Agency Workers Regulations, which still apply. But they remain employees of their agency, not the company for whom they are doing the work, so pay levels can be different.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Bump.Does anyone know in this post Brexit era whether the provisions of the Agency-Workers Directive still apply in the UK perhaps as a result of the European Communities Act 2018? Where I work they are currently having to bus in the Temps from fifty miles down the M1 I am curious to know whether after thirteen weeks they (the employer that is) will also have to bestow on the Temps the extra quid that permanent workers have just had??

usual disclaimers, and it's not something i've met

TUC worksmart website still has a page about it, including an amendment to the regulations in 2020

Whether in practice, employers can get round it by turfing each batch of temporary workers out after 11 weeks and getting another lot, i'm not sure...

 

[Duncan2]

usual disclaimers, and it's not something i've met

TUC worksmart website still has a page about it, including an amendment to the regulations in 2020

Whether in practice, employers can get round it by turfing each batch of temporary workers out after 11 weeks and getting another lot, i'm not sure...

Thanks Puddy Tat up at crack of dawn tomorrow so heading up the wooden hill but will checl out your link tomorrow.As for turfing out after eleven weeks this definitely goes on at our gaff in respect of the unfortunates they don't wish to employ.I was unsure why post Brexit they still felt the need to do this but I think my question has been answered already.They won't want to turf out temps just now because we are short-staffed but neither will they want to pay temps qua temps what we are now on following recent pay-rise.Could be interesting

 

[Guineveretoo]

usual disclaimers, and it's not something i've met

TUC worksmart website still has a page about it, including an amendment to the regulations in 2020

Whether in practice, employers can get round it by turfing each batch of temporary workers out after 11 weeks and getting another lot, i'm not sure...

Temporary workers and agency workers are different things and different regulations apply.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Thanks Puddy Tat up at crack of dawn tomorrow so heading up the wooden hill but will checl out your link tomorrow.As for turfing out after eleven weeks this definitely goes on at our gaff in respect of the unfortunates they don't wish to employ.I was unsure why post Brexit they still felt the need to do this but I think my question has been answered already.They won't want to turf out temps just now because we are short-staffed but neither will they want to pay temps qua temps what we are now on following recent pay-rise.Could be interesting

Are these agency workers, so employed by an agency, or temporary workers employed directly?

 

[Duncan2]

Are these agency workers, so employed by an agency, or temporary workers employed directly?

Variety of agencies Guinevere.Soz got to turn in again.But just re your earlier post and the point about different "employers" justifying differentials in pay I had thought that the whole thrust of the AWD and presumably now of the AWR was to militate against that and discourage the phenomenon of the "permanent temp" by levelling up pay and conditions?Will definitely get to Puddytats link tomorrow

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Variety of agencies Guinevere.Soz got to turn in again.But just re your earlier post and the point about different "employers" justifying differentials in pay I had thought that the whole thrust of the AWD and presumably now of the AWR was to militate against that and discourage the phenomenon of the "permanent temp" by levelling up pay and conditions?Will definitely get to Puddytats definitely get to Puddytats link tomorrow

Just found this thread after being on U75 for ages….I really need to spend less time in P&P arguing with remainers. seriously, good to see it exists.

Duncan, the answer is that the provisions of the AWD still apply, and will remain so unless the government enacts primary legislation to remove or amend them. The UK isn’t of course bound by any future amendments made by the EU but that’s not an issue here. Here are the regs (see page 7)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/841981/agency-workers-regulations-2010-guidance.pdf

The principle is as you understand it: after 12 weeks employment with the same employer agency workers should be paid the same basic pay rate as directly employed workers. As it always the case the detail is important, but the principle is clear.

You may also find this interesting…

The Agency Workers (Amendment) Regulations 2019: RPC Opinion

Regulatory Policy Committee opinion on BEIS' impact assessment of The Agency Workers (Amendment) Regulations 2019 – revocation of the Swedish derogation.

www.gov.uk

 

[hitmouse]

Our branch has somehow lost access to its banner and is currently taking suggestions for a new banner design, does anyone have any good ideas to contribute? And/or can anyone recommend any artists who are good at painting big spunking cocks on banners?

 

[Lord Camomile]

Ooh, might keep an eye out for recommendations meself.

Apparently our last one was left on a bus some years ago

 

[hitmouse]

I've had what happened to our banner explained to me but I still don't fully understand it, apparently our stuff was moved from one office to another but all our banner and all our flags got left behind in the move and now no-one has access to the old office?
Anyway, I've come up with a few designs so far, just need to see what the rest of the committee thinks of them:

 

[Smokeandsteam]

They look fine to me….

 

[ddraig]

They'd never go for it obvs, don't like "rocking the boat" as I was told off for in my branch for a feisty artice
The looks on some of their faces when I said that's what I thought unions were meant to do

 

[hitmouse]

Spose this might as well go here, interesting article:

What is the rank-and-file strategy?

by Ray // Transcript of a talk at TWT

notesfrombelow.org

 

[hitmouse]

I just tried having a look for this, and it turns out that instagram automatically hides content with the hashtag #notgoodenough in case it's linked to self-harm. Unison definitely winning at social media there.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Oh, fucking hell, really??

I'm just about to head into a branch committee meeting, honestly not sure if I'll bring that up, given how frustrated they've already been with a lot of the organisation of this coming from head office.

 

[hitmouse]

Our union branch committee voted to make a donation to another union's strike fund. We've now been advised by a full-time official that this would be risky territory as it could potentially be challenged as inappropriate expenditure. Is it just me, or is that totally fucking bonkers?