UNION related chat, reflections and experiences. Reps & members alike!

[Duncan2]

Would welcome any thoughts on the subject of Christmas Working.The place i have worked at i.e a warehouse for the last six years have a standard contract that largely ignores Bank Holidays whilst providing for two fixed holiday days per year (i.e warehouse shutdown) on Christmas Day and New Years Day and this has invariably happened since i started.
This year since Christmas falls on a Sunday ( which is not a working day at our DC for any staff) they are telling us that we can have a day in lieu some time after the busy period and we are expected to report for work bright and early on Monday the 26th December which is obviously Boxing Day. this we are told will thus be a normal working day.
Quite apart from the health and safety angle adequate time off coinciding with family social events and so on this doesnt seem right to me.Our contract seems to entitle us to expect that we will have one day holiday at Christmas but this year we are being obliged to work right through Christmas (we won't be at work on Sunday but this will not be because we are enjoying our fixed holiday but because Sunday just isnt a working day anyway?)
Am i being churlish or is this more than a bit shit and maybe a breach of contract? It just seems to me that they ought to be giving us the option of taking the Monday as our fixed Christmas Hol

 

[Lord Camomile]

Am i being churlish

No

is this more than a bit shit

Yup.

Am i being churlish or is this more than a bit shit and maybe a breach of contract?

Now that's a different question.

There might be a 'custom and practice' argument to be made (basically, if there's an unwritten but longstanding convention, leading to reasonable expectation that'll continue).

However, I suspect the main sticking point will be that the reason you usually get that day off is because the warehouse is closed. If the warehouse is not closed on 26th, it's not the same situation.

Hm, although... they arguably wouldn't 'lose' a day of being open, as this year they're not closed Xmas Day in addition to the Sunday they would have been closed anyway.

Presumably this is true of NYD too?

Just for my own understanding, would you not normally be working 26th after a day off on 25th anyway?

Ok, don't think my stream of consciousness is going to be helping matters I return to "hopefully someone else'll be along soon...

 

[Duncan2]

no thanks for your input Lord Camomile we would,if we had been unable to book a floating day,normally expect to have to work on Boxing Day but in my case i have previously been able to book that day as occasional holiday but this year i was only able to book the following week which is why not getting a fixed day at New Year isnt in my case a problem.
I have to say i am a bit less sanguine about this now.It did seem to me that we were being deprived of something which the two fixed days clause entitled us to expect i.e at least the option of taking a holiday day at Christmas or,in the event of that not being possible,on the next available working day but yeah maybe there are indeed other ways of construing what has been agreed.Thanks for your opinion

 

[Smokeandsteam]

no thanks for your input Lord Camomile we would,if we had been unable to book a floating day,normally expect to have to work on Boxing Day but in my case i have previously been able to book that day as occasional holiday but this year i was only able to book the following week which is why not getting a fixed day at New Year isnt in my case a problem.
I have to say i am a bit less sanguine about this now.It did seem to me that we were being deprived of something which the two fixed days clause entitled us to expect i.e at least the option of taking a holiday day at Christmas or,in the event of that not being possible,on the next available working day but yeah maybe there are indeed other ways of construing what has been agreed.Thanks for your opinion

Sounds to me like there is no contractual right to Boxing Day, although as the previous poster says there might be some mileage in running a custom and practise argument.

I don’t know if you are recognised at your place but I’d be sounding out fellow workers about the strength of feeling on this. Maybe a collective grievance could be organised? Maybe a demand for double time on Boxing Day could be tabled?

It’s shitty stuff from management as there will be no public transport on Boxing Day and given that Christmas Day is a non working day (as opposed to a day off) it seems to me to be a decision that flies in the face of the spirit of the previous arrangements.

 

[Lord Camomile]

no thanks for your input Lord Camomile we would,if we had been unable to book a floating day,normally expect to have to work on Boxing Day but in my case i have previously been able to book that day as occasional holiday but this year i was only able to book the following week which is why not getting a fixed day at New Year isnt in my case a problem.
I have to say i am a bit less sanguine about this now.It did seem to me that we were being deprived of something which the two fixed days clause entitled us to expect i.e at least the option of taking a holiday day at Christmas or,in the event of that not being possible,on the next available working day but yeah maybe there are indeed other ways of construing what has been agreed.Thanks for your opinion

Nah, I definitely think, even if in sheer logical terms the numbers work out the same over the course of a year, there is something to that difference between "just your regular Sunday off" and "a holiday day".

As Smokeandsteam says, first thing would be to see how much strength of feeling there is about it, and whether that can be a collective position to leverage for something better. What that "better" is, of course, would depend on what the collective wants and what they could feasibly achieve.

Double time is a good option. Would Christmas Eve as a day off instead fly at all?? Obviously depends on exactly what kind of warehouse/company it is, just wondering if they'd be more amenable to closing on a Saturday than a Monday?

Or is there room to split it? So some staff get 24th off, some get 26th off, meanwhile the warehouse stays open on a skeleton crew?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Or is there room to split it? So some staff get 24th off, some get 26th off, meanwhile the warehouse stays open on a skeleton crew?

That’s a good shout. Reasonable and offers a way out for management without having to shut.

Also reinforces the principle at stake here, that Christmas Day - or the day nearest to it on either side, dependent on the day that Christmas Day falls - is a non working day by custom and practice.

 

[Duncan2]

thanks very much both this is much more like what i was hoping to hear.it is as you say particularly galling that there has not even been any suggestion of time and a half not to mention double-time to soften the blow.hopefully my attempts to stir things up on Monday will be well received

 

[Smokeandsteam]

thanks very much both this is much more like what i was hoping to hear.it is as you say particularly galling that there has not even been any suggestion of time and a half not to mention double-time to soften the blow.hopefully my attempts to stir things up on Monday will be well received

Let us know the feedback and what approach you adopt and how management respond Duncan2

Good luck.

 

[Duncan2]

will do and thanks again.

 

[Dovydaitis]

I’ve recently changed jobs and the new place recognises Prospect union. I’ve had an email from the rep with a bit of an intro, some bumph and an invite for a chat. I’ve heard good things about them but what’s the consensus on here?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I’ve recently changed jobs and the new place recognises Prospect union. I’ve had an email from the rep with a bit of an intro, some bumph and an invite for a chat. I’ve heard good things about them but what’s the consensus on here?

i was a member for a few years, in a non recognised job, and never really had to call on their services. is it the only recognised union for your grade / department / workplace?

generally speaking, joining the / a recognised union is the best thing to do

 

[Dovydaitis]

So far, yes but I’ve only been there a week. Will have a dig about

 

[Lord Camomile]

In other news, does anyone know 'owt about this?

Workers Can Win! A Guide to Organising at Work. – by Ian Allinson

workers-can-win.info

Thought the reading group looked promising as something some of our activists or more engaged members might be interested in.

Only superficially familiar with those involved and where I saw it shared, though, so wanted to double-check there weren't any major reasons to avoid it ("they're actually a rebrand for rape apologists" kinda thing, to pick a totally random example).

 

[belboid]

In other news, does anyone know 'owt about this?

Workers Can Win! A Guide to Organising at Work. – by Ian Allinson

workers-can-win.info

Thought the reading group looked promising as something some of our activists or more engaged members might be interested in.

Only superficially familiar with those involved and where I saw it shared, though, so wanted to double-check there weren't any major reasons to avoid it ("they're actually a rebrand for rape apologists" kinda thing, to pick a totally random example).

Nah, it's led by those who split from the rape apologists. Highly unlikely any of 'them' will be there as they refuse to speak to those ex members.

There's a conference coming up too, kinda rank n filey, but without wanting to set up yet another R&F network that would be a shell of itself in months. Troublemakers At Work: 2023 conference – Workers Can Win! A Guide to Organising at Work.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Ah, nice one, cheers. Totally clueless as to the history/context, so useful to know that's where they're coming from.

Have been thinking about the conference, but'll depend on various other factors.

 

[belboid]

I went to one of the book launches. It sounded a bit like it might all be stuff I'd have heard before in advance, but it was actually a really good and useful discussion and had a bunch of decent ideas about tactics to try.

 

[hitmouse]

In other news, does anyone know 'owt about this?

Workers Can Win! A Guide to Organising at Work. – by Ian Allinson

workers-can-win.info

Thought the reading group looked promising as something some of our activists or more engaged members might be interested in.

Only superficially familiar with those involved and where I saw it shared, though, so wanted to double-check there weren't any major reasons to avoid it ("they're actually a rebrand for rape apologists" kinda thing, to pick a totally random example).

Yeah, it's a good book and Ian's sound, but if you go to the online reading group you will have to attend zoom/teams meetings so that's something to bear in mind.

 

[hitmouse]

Nah, it's led by those who split from the rape apologists. Highly unlikely any of 'them' will be there as they refuse to speak to those ex members.

There's a conference coming up too, kinda rank n filey, but without wanting to set up yet another R&F network that would be a shell of itself in months. Troublemakers At Work: 2023 conference – Workers Can Win! A Guide to Organising at Work.

On a related note, do you know anything about this one? Trying not to be cynical, but it does look a bit like Counterfire deliberately setting up something to act as a spoiler for the Troublemakers conference - am I being overly cynical here or depressingly accurate?

How We Fight, How We Win: A Rank-And-File Organising Conference

Open to every trade unionist who wants to see strike action coordinated and escalated

www.eventbrite.co.uk

 

[LDC]

On a related note, do you know anything about this one? Trying not to be cynical, but it does look a bit like Counterfire deliberately setting up something to act as a spoiler for the Troublemakers conference - am I being overly cynical here or depressingly accurate?

How We Fight, How We Win: A Rank-And-File Organising Conference

Open to every trade unionist who wants to see strike action coordinated and escalated

www.eventbrite.co.uk

Didn't know they were behind it, had it on my list of things to go to along with the Troublemakers one as well. The list of supporters is a bit meh, Peoples Assembly etc. but guess that's predictable. Type of thing Corbyn would have a star appearance speaking at.

 

[hitmouse]

Didn't know they were behind it, had it on my list of things to go to along with the Troublemakers one as well. The list of supporters is a bit meh, Peoples Assembly etc. but guess that's predictable. Type of thing Corbyn would have a star appearance speaking at.

I mean, they might not be, I'm just jumping to conclusions based on them being listed as endorsers. Would be happy to find out I'm wrong there.

 

[hitmouse]

Open letter for Unite, GMB and Unison members who reject the bullshit claim against the NEU:

Open letter: GMB, Unison and Unite members reject the TUC's ruling against NEU

Please sign below if you are a member of GMB, Unison or Unite, in any industry, and agree with this letter. Note that signatures will be listed publicly (and updated periodically) at the bottom of the letter unless requested not to on the bottom of the google form. In late 2022, GMB, Unison and...

docs.google.com

 

[hitmouse]

Think this should probably go here as well as the Manchester thread, obituaries for Linda Holden - a true class fighter and a mensch, a great loss to Unison and the wider union movement, especially across the Northwest and in HE:

Linda Holden: a tribute

wakelet.com

RIP Linda Holden

Welcome to UNISON North West. With 200,000 members, we are the biggest union in the region and we are growing.

www.unisonnw.org

 

[Pickman's model]

Bidvest noonan. A friend tells me that they have the security contract at ucl and intend to fire and rehire the security guards, to impose a new working structure with fewer hours and new working conditions which would make things there less secure. It seems many of the security are in iwgb but the company will only talk to unison. Apparently they're assigning each member of staff a score partially based on sick leave people have taken, with this making such staff vulnerable to redundancy. If anyone has any dirt on bn I'd be glad to hear it (pm pls) so I can pass it on. More info UCL security guards told to reapply for jobs and face £13,000 pay cut - union

 

[hitmouse]

This sounds a bit shit:

Hazards Campaign Statement on the sudden and immediate cancellation of RISKS Enewsletter by TUC

News release, 28th June 2023, No embargo On Friday 23rd June a report was made to the Hazards Campaign meeting, that the enewsletter RISKS has been cancelled by the TUC with immediate effect. We a…

www.hazardscampaign.org.uk

On Friday 23rd June a report was made to the Hazards Campaign meeting, that the enewsletter RISKS has been cancelled by the TUC with immediate effect.

We are shocked and very alarmed at this decision, because for many safety reps (especially from smaller trade unions with no dedicated health and safety department), this was their main weekly source of health and safety information.

RISKS provided regular and up to date health and safety information from workers’ perspective from around the health and safety movement in the UK, as well as from global health and safety unions and organisations.

RISKS provided information and analysis on what the government, the TUC, trade unions and other relevant organisations are doing, campaigns, workplace victories on health and safety and on going struggles, relevant scientific and technical information on all aspects of health, safety, environment and Just Transition, in a readable format from trusted source as it was edited by Rory O’ Neill editor of Hazards Magazine.

RISKS has been invaluable for thousands of safety reps and union health and safety officers, for many years. It helped to create and network the community of safety reps, and health and safety activists across the UK in all unions, types of workplaces and sectors.

The sudden end of RISKS is a huge loss for us all.

In the absence of the TUC reconsidering this regressive decision, we urge all trade unions and progressive organisations, to now put every effort in to maximising and increasing the support for the Hazards Magazine.

Hazards Magazine is the most treasured and valuable health and safety publication in the Hazards and health and safety movement. Hazards articles feature in almost all TUC and union health and safety courses, it is the first place to go for research for many of us, and it is much envied across the world’s labour movements which don’t have an equivalent or have long since lost their own print publications.

So we ask you now to recommit to support and grow support for Hazards Magazine to ensure its future as a print plus online publication by subscribing and encouraging others to subscribe.

Contact Jawad Qasrawi Sub Editor sub@hazards.org
Hazards Magazine: www.hazards.org/subscribe

Thank you

Janet Newsham, Chair of Hazards Campaign

 

[Lord Camomile]

Hm, can't say I'm familiar with it, but reliable and accessible source of info are vital for the movement. Wonder why the TUC decided to stop it

 

[InArduisFouette]

Bidvest noonan. A friend tells me that they have the security contract at ucl and intend to fire and rehire the security guards, to impose a new working structure with fewer hours and new working conditions which would make things there less secure. It seems many of the security are in iwgb but the company will only talk to unison. Apparently they're assigning each member of staff a score partially based on sick leave people have taken, with this making such staff vulnerable to redundancy. If anyone has any dirt on bn I'd be glad to hear it (pm pls) so I can pass it on. More info UCL security guards told to reapply for jobs and face £13,000 pay cut - union

Is it a TUPE scenario ? or are the security provider claiming it;sa skill mix /service review and that this would be redundancies as the existing jobs no longer exist ?

was IWGB recognised by the previous provider ? (recently seen a TUPE of a TUPE and the recognition agreement held firm across - bascially whole part of a business (warehouse /logistics/ online fulfilfillment / returns) lock, stock and barrel TUPEd to a Logistics + fulfillment Specialist, and then the logistics Specialist is TUPEing out the parts that their other business TUPEs ( cleaning , deskside IT etc ) ...

 

[hitmouse]

Organise Now have a new guide to... getting organised now, can download as a delicious PDF here:

Resources

Resources Step 1: Talk to others you work with Step 2: Get together with others you work with Step 3: Raise your demands with the boss Step 4: The boss's reaction Step 5: Next steps Ready to get started?

www.organisenow.org.uk

or order paper copies here:

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Airtable is a low-code platform for building collaborative apps. Customize your workflow, collaborate, and achieve ambitious outcomes. Get started for free.

airtable.com

 

[Puddy_Tat]

my (UNISON local government) branch voted just over 70 % to reject the pay rise, but only a 25 % turnout, so looks like we won't be going on strike...

 

[hitmouse]

There's a conference coming up too, kinda rank n filey, but without wanting to set up yet another R&F network that would be a shell of itself in months. Troublemakers At Work: 2023 conference – Workers Can Win! A Guide to Organising at Work.

Did anyone go to this? Would be keen to hear people's thoughts.

 

[hitmouse]

Anyone? Anyway, here's another union-y thing people might want to go to, applications close this week:

New Organising Conference 2024 | Ella Baker School

www.ellabakerorganising.org.uk