Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

UNION related chat, reflections and experiences. Reps & members alike!

got a case where the manager is arranging a meeting with a member at times when reps can't attend - was handed the case the other day and strangely the only two times i can't make next week are when the manager wants the meeting!

so i checked the manager's diary (the wonders of outlook :cool: ) and suggested a time when she didn't have a meeting, only for her to say, no can do, only the times you can't make. so i checked her diary again, and found she's free on tuesday morning. sent her an email, sorry you can't make weds afternoon, did check your calendar, advised member that having meetings at times which effectively exclude her chosen companions may lead to a perception the process unfair and could be grounds for an appeal against any formal warning. see you're free tuesday morning, how's that sound?

i await her response.
 
got a case where the manager is arranging a meeting with a member at times when reps can't attend - was handed the case the other day and strangely the only two times i can't make next week are when the manager wants the meeting!

so i checked the manager's diary (the wonders of outlook :cool: ) and suggested a time when she didn't have a meeting, only for her to say, no can do, only the times you can't make. so i checked her diary again, and found she's free on tuesday morning. sent her an email, sorry you can't make weds afternoon, did check your calendar, advised member that having meetings at times which effectively exclude her chosen companions may lead to a perception the process unfair and could be grounds for an appeal against any formal warning. see you're free tuesday morning, how's that sound?

i await her response.
It sounds like you're being pissed about, I take it you've pointed out that you being there is the members legal right and not just window dressing?
 
42608109_2141459572734152_5182213213281845248_o.jpg
:cool:
 
Not sure how much you folks on the other side of the Atlantic know about unions in the United States, or how closely your news sources follow developments in US labor laws, but there was a massively-important Supreme Court case this summer that made a fundamental change to how public-sector unions work in many states.

A number of states, including California (where I live), have laws on the books that allow public-sector unions to draw union dues from all workers covered by the collective bargaining agreement, even if those workers don't want to join the union, and even if they don't like the union very much. The argument behind these "fair share" dues, or "agency fees," as they're often called, is that all the public-sector workers benefit from the collective bargaining work of the unions, and therefore should contribute to the union's upkeep. Unions had often argued that, if you don't allow agency fees, you end up with too many "free riders"; i.e., people who benefit from unions without contributing to them. This, in turn, makes unions hard to sustain.

These agency fees had been ruled constitutional by the Supreme Court in the Abood v. Detroit Board of Education case in 1977. I'm not quite sure whether or not there's a similar system for public-sector unions in the UK.

Anyway, in June the Supreme Court issued its ruling in Janus v. AFSCME, overturning Abood and finding that agency fees constitute an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment right to freedom of speech. Essentially, they ruled that agency fees constituted a compelled subsidy of speech with which people might disagree.

This case was incredibly closely watched, and was probably one of the most highly-publicized cases of this Supreme Court term, with free market types and anti-union conservatives cheering for the Court to overturn Abood, and union supporters claiming that, if agency fees were eliminated, it would be the death knell for public-sector unions.

As a union member (in a public-sector union), and as a union supporter and a lefty more generally, I was hoping that the Court would uphold Abood, and I think that there were good Constitutional arguments for doing so. One of the nation's most prominent and well-respected Constitutional scholars, a libertarian-leaning attorney who is, in his own words, "somewhat skeptical of modern American unionism," actually co-authored an amicus curiae brief in the case arguing that there's no Constitutional problem with compelled speech. As the brief notes, it happens a lot:
Compelled subsidies of others' speech happen all the time, and are not generally viewed as burdening any First Amendment interest. The government collects and spends tax dollars, doles out grants and subsidies to private organizations that engage in speech, and even requires private parties to pay other private parties for speech-related services—like, for example, legal representation. To be certain, these compelled subsidies are subject to other constitutional restrictions. For example, the government cannot compel payments that violate the First Amendment's Religion Clauses or the Equal Protection Clause. But a compelled subsidy does not itself burden a free-standing First Amendment interest in freedom of speech or association.
This seems, on its face, to be a pretty convincing argument to me.

It's too soon yet to know what the long-term consequences of the decision will be. Firstly, in more than 25 states, there will be no change, because those states had not passed laws allowing agency fees. While I hoped the court would uphold Abood, I was never quite as worried about the outcome as some of my union friends and comrades. I think you could even make the argument that we people who join public-sector unions and support them now have a greater incentive to make sure that our unions are relevant to the people they serve. That way, we can go out and convince our fellow workers that it's worth signing the little piece of paper that makes you a member, and that lets the union take a bit of money out of your paycheck each month.

What I've been most disappointed in, at least in my union, is how many people have taken a head-in-the-sand approach to the Janus decision. I attended a union kick-off conference in August, where about 150-200 people from our union, from all across the state, got together for a couple of days to talk about the key issues faced by the union in the coming year. Being a naive fool, I assumed that we'd spend time talking about the Janus decision and strategizing about how best to make our union more relevant and attractive to the people we hoped to get as members. And yet, in the opening meeting of the conference, we were basically told that Janus was a dirty word, and that it should not be uttered aloud at the conference. Furthermore, we were told not to mention it when trying to recruit new members in our own workplaces, and if someone asked about it, to downplay it and simply note that the union was determined to flourish despite the efforts of anti-union elements.

I thought that was a profoundly misguided and wrongheaded approach. This is probably the most important legal decision affecting American unions in over 40 years; our response should not be to pretend it never happened.
 
Not sure how much you folks on the other side of the Atlantic know about unions in the United States, or how closely your news sources follow developments in US labor laws, but there was a massively-important Supreme Court case this summer that made a fundamental change to how public-sector unions work in many states.

A number of states, including California (where I live), have laws on the books that allow public-sector unions to draw union dues from all workers covered by the collective bargaining agreement, even if those workers don't want to join the union, and even if they don't like the union very much. The argument behind these "fair share" dues, or "agency fees," as they're often called, is that all the public-sector workers benefit from the collective bargaining work of the unions, and therefore should contribute to the union's upkeep. Unions had often argued that, if you don't allow agency fees, you end up with too many "free riders"; i.e., people who benefit from unions without contributing to them. This, in turn, makes unions hard to sustain.

These agency fees had been ruled constitutional by the Supreme Court in the Abood v. Detroit Board of Education case in 1977. I'm not quite sure whether or not there's a similar system for public-sector unions in the UK.

Anyway, in June the Supreme Court issued its ruling in Janus v. AFSCME, overturning Abood and finding that agency fees constitute an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment right to freedom of speech. Essentially, they ruled that agency fees constituted a compelled subsidy of speech with which people might disagree.

This case was incredibly closely watched, and was probably one of the most highly-publicized cases of this Supreme Court term, with free market types and anti-union conservatives cheering for the Court to overturn Abood, and union supporters claiming that, if agency fees were eliminated, it would be the death knell for public-sector unions.

As a union member (in a public-sector union), and as a union supporter and a lefty more generally, I was hoping that the Court would uphold Abood, and I think that there were good Constitutional arguments for doing so. One of the nation's most prominent and well-respected Constitutional scholars, a libertarian-leaning attorney who is, in his own words, "somewhat skeptical of modern American unionism," actually co-authored an amicus curiae brief in the case arguing that there's no Constitutional problem with compelled speech. As the brief notes, it happens a lot:This seems, on its face, to be a pretty convincing argument to me.

It's too soon yet to know what the long-term consequences of the decision will be. Firstly, in more than 25 states, there will be no change, because those states had not passed laws allowing agency fees. While I hoped the court would uphold Abood, I was never quite as worried about the outcome as some of my union friends and comrades. I think you could even make the argument that we people who join public-sector unions and support them now have a greater incentive to make sure that our unions are relevant to the people they serve. That way, we can go out and convince our fellow workers that it's worth signing the little piece of paper that makes you a member, and that lets the union take a bit of money out of your paycheck each month.

What I've been most disappointed in, at least in my union, is how many people have taken a head-in-the-sand approach to the Janus decision. I attended a union kick-off conference in August, where about 150-200 people from our union, from all across the state, got together for a couple of days to talk about the key issues faced by the union in the coming year. Being a naive fool, I assumed that we'd spend time talking about the Janus decision and strategizing about how best to make our union more relevant and attractive to the people we hoped to get as members. And yet, in the opening meeting of the conference, we were basically told that Janus was a dirty word, and that it should not be uttered aloud at the conference. Furthermore, we were told not to mention it when trying to recruit new members in our own workplaces, and if someone asked about it, to downplay it and simply note that the union was determined to flourish despite the efforts of anti-union elements.

I thought that was a profoundly misguided and wrongheaded approach. This is probably the most important legal decision affecting American unions in over 40 years; our response should not be to pretend it never happened.
I didn’t know that at all, and it’s very interesting.

It ties in with the “closed shop” in the UK, which required someone to join the union in order to work in a particular workplace or job.

That was outlawed in this country a long time ago, and the unions in the public sector have been undermined repeatedly since then by legislation which weakens them and makes it more complicated and difficult just to recruit and retain members.
 
I'm trying to get our branch house in order a bit by putting a spreadsheet together of all our branch committee members, reps, workplace contacts, etc - idea being if their info is all in one place it'll be easier to contact them all, or in individual depts., see where we have good density, where things could be improved, etc.

Ideally, I'd also like to set up some kind of case management system, so we can see how many cases we have, in which depts., who's repping them, any major themes, etc... Obviously this kind of thing would bring lots of data protection stuff into play, but even if we leave out details and can just say "we have X cases in Y dept." or "Rep Z has way too many cases right now, we have to give this one to someone else" I think that'd really help the branch run smooth.

So... does anyone have any experience with any management systems? I'm currently throwing something together, but feel like I don't have enough experience to intuitively know what's going to be useful, what not, and what we shouldn't do because it'll cause us headaches later on!
 
First thing I’d do is call a meeting, get as many of you there as you can, discuss it & throw some ideas around :) As you mentioned the GDPR, it’s a bit of a minefield regarding how that info is stored, shared etc.
 
I'm trying to get our branch house in order a bit by putting a spreadsheet together of all our branch committee members, reps, workplace contacts, etc - idea being if their info is all in one place it'll be easier to contact them all, or in individual depts., see where we have good density, where things could be improved, etc.

Ideally, I'd also like to set up some kind of case management system, so we can see how many cases we have, in which depts., who's repping them, any major themes, etc... Obviously this kind of thing would bring lots of data protection stuff into play, but even if we leave out details and can just say "we have X cases in Y dept." or "Rep Z has way too many cases right now, we have to give this one to someone else" I think that'd really help the branch run smooth.

So... does anyone have any experience with any management systems? I'm currently throwing something together, but feel like I don't have enough experience to intuitively know what's going to be useful, what not, and what we shouldn't do because it'll cause us headaches later on!
have you mapped your membership?
 
First thing I’d do is call a meeting, get as many of you there as you can, discuss it & throw some ideas around :) As you mentioned the GDPR, it’s a bit of a minefield regarding how that info is stored, shared etc.
It was on the agenda for last night's committee meeting (couldn't attend as I was working the evening shift) so waiting to hear back on what was discussed there. Just feel like surely there must be some kind of 'industry standard(s)' that branches use. It's not like it's a particularly novel idea.

have you mapped your membership?
I think there was work done on this in the past year/18 months, but not sure if it was completed.
 
So, the case management system is going nowhere fast, but while I work on that I'm turning my attention to something else: a branch/general TU calendar of key events like rallies, marches, conferences, etc.

Again, before I go putting a load of work into this.. does something like this already exist? Or, probably more likely, where should I be looking for details of events? TUC and UNISON websites are the obvious ones (though not always the easiest to navigate :hmm: ), but anyone else I should be bookmarking?
 
Any recommendations for a decent union?

In the South-West, work is import, export, processing (very small growing operation) of dried herbs, spices, teas, I'm in the office dealing with samples and paperwork. I'd be the lone member, no recognised union where I work, and I do not have the mental or physical energy to go on recruitment drives - sorry, but I only just hold myself together as it is. Stuff going on (see other thread!) and some want to start a staff forum of sorts because of all this, but I just feel I should join up again for the future. Used to be in Unison when working at a uni and started but never completed rep training (I told you I can only just hold things together...)

Thanks, and I hope I'm ok to ask the question on this thread...
 
Any recommendations for a decent union?

In the South-West, work is import, export, processing (very small growing operation) of dried herbs, spices, teas, I'm in the office dealing with samples and paperwork. I'd be the lone member, no recognised union where I work, and I do not have the mental or physical energy to go on recruitment drives - sorry, but I only just hold myself together as it is. Stuff going on (see other thread!) and some want to start a staff forum of sorts because of all this, but I just feel I should join up again for the future. Used to be in Unison when working at a uni and started but never completed rep training (I told you I can only just hold things together...)

Thanks, and I hope I'm ok to ask the question on this thread...


What union are your colleagues in?
 
Sorry, it was a messy paragraph - "I'd be the lone member, no recognised union where I work"


Ah okay. Similar to where I am now as no formally recognised union so up to colleagues to choose for themselves. I am still with Unite as there didn't seem much point changing just for changing sake because I've also stayed in the same sector.

Are any of your colleagues members of any unions that you know of?
 
Any recommendations for a decent union?

In the South-West, work is import, export, processing (very small growing operation) of dried herbs, spices, teas, I'm in the office dealing with samples and paperwork. I'd be the lone member, no recognised union where I work, and I do not have the mental or physical energy to go on recruitment drives - sorry, but I only just hold myself together as it is. Stuff going on (see other thread!) and some want to start a staff forum of sorts because of all this, but I just feel I should join up again for the future. Used to be in Unison when working at a uni and started but never completed rep training (I told you I can only just hold things together...)

Thanks, and I hope I'm ok to ask the question on this thread...
I would probably recommend Unite, although I don’t have a good experience of being represented by them in an unrecognised workplace. :(
 
Ah okay. Similar to where I am now as no formally recognised union so up to colleagues to choose for themselves. I am still with Unite as there didn't seem much point changing just for changing sake because I've also stayed in the same sector.

Are any of your colleagues members of any unions that you know of?

Not as far as I know. It's a smallish 'ethical' company with quite a few people very long serving. I don't think anyone has ever felt the need to join a union. There may be someone who is a member but it has never been mentioned.
 
Is it a measure of the decline in the effectiveness of Unions that we now hear statements from the police on a fairly regular basis about work they are having to do to enforce minimum-wage legislation on recalcitrant employers? Two items in yesterday morning's news-the first that "environmentally-conscious" purveyors of (fast) fashion were increasingly turning to local manufacturers-and the second that police were again having to look into pop-up garment factories, staffed by illegally under-paid over-lockers, in the back streets of Leicester.(Not many hundreds of yards from Unite's Burleys Way offices in fact).I don't know how you would go about documenting the true-scale of NMW-legislation evasion by UK employers but it would be an interesting line of inquiry I think.
 
Joining a union still pops into my head but I'm no nearer knowing which would be best.
It seems Unite, GMB, Community, maybe BFAWU (or the IWW!) are most suited to my workplace but I really don't know which would be the best, which is most left-leaning, which would be suited to me possibly being the only worker in a union.
Also, during all the problems a few months ago I disclosed I had a neuro-developmental diagnosis (ASD/ADHD).

I don't know where else to ask or see other people's opinions, I can't seem to find general union forums or such.
 
Joining a union still pops into my head but I'm no nearer knowing which would be best.
It seems Unite, GMB, Community, maybe BFAWU (or the IWW!) are most suited to my workplace but I really don't know which would be the best, which is most left-leaning, which would be suited to me possibly being the only worker in a union.
Also, during all the problems a few months ago I disclosed I had a neuro-developmental diagnosis (ASD/ADHD).

I don't know where else to ask or see other people's opinions, I can't seem to find general union forums or such.
Any one of them would be better than none - but if it was me I'd be looking at Unite or GMB purely because of resources they can offer in unorganised workplace, official representation, access to legal representation etc.
 
In terms of politics, Community most right leaning (quite managerial, associated with the new labour wing of labour movement), but tbh each unions external politics not the most important factor - if other people you worked with were in community then they'd be best bet.
 
First (half) day at UNISON National Delegate Conference, so out of my depth :oops:

Luckily I'm just a lowly visitor; my branch sec arrives tonight and is sharing delegate status with another member who arrives later in the week.
 
First (half) day at UNISON National Delegate Conference, so out of my depth :oops:

Luckily I'm just a lowly visitor; my branch sec arrives tonight and is sharing delegate status with another member who arrives later in the week.
That takes me back! I attended the first ever UNISON National Delegate Conference, and several after that before I left UNISON.

I hope you enjoy the experience, and get to meet lots of lovely people.
 
i managed to get the first unison tie that my branch got (the branch secretary was a bit miffed)
 
Seriously considering cancelling my subs over Len McCluskys stance on Brexit. Also their continued commitment to the coal industry makes me fucking furious.

I've always been in a union but I'm fucked if I can allow them to use my money to forward this Tory agenda.
 
Back
Top Bottom