Ukraine

[Fuchs66]

Casually Red Regarding your "Prince Phillip is a Nazi" type post earlier

The Nazis had lots of bedfellows, for a while one was especially important:

For reasons that soon became obvious:

 

[seventh bullet]

they were also posting and approving of an extremely treacherous statement that emanated from a bunch of Ukrainian anarchists calling for the international isolation of Ukrainian left wing groups just as the coup regime set about destroying them and driving them from public life . Not a single word of disapproval at that type of treachery and opportunism. Absolutely no analysis or questioning of why these anarchists had been engaging in joint political demonstrations for years with the very people they were now calling upon international leftists to repudiate ...or questioning its very convenient timing . Basically they seem to have actively engaged in an attempt to provide fascsist withpolitical cover as they set about destroying leftists. Active collaboration that anti fascists on here expressed approval for.

I haven't.

And by the way, how is it fringe-like when fascists and national chauvinists are the (self-appointed) goverment of Novorossiya.

 

[seventh bullet]

Casually Red Regarding your "Prince Phillip is a Nazi" type post earlier

The Nazis had lots of bedfellows, for a while one was especially important:

For reasons that soon became obvious:

What was Stalin's wider thinking behind that?

Not quite like the post above, was it?

 

[Fuchs66]

What was Stalin's wider thinking behind that?

Not quite like the post above, was it?

Stalin went into the pact to ensure that the Soviet Unions "sphere of interest" could be secured without any interference from Germany (and ensure that Germany wouldn't interfere with the Russian-Japanese spat at the time) but the cooperation especially military cooperation preceded this particular pact.

How do you mean not like the post above?

 

[coley]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660668

Philip aged 16 at the 1937 funeral of his elder sister Cecile, flanked by relatives in SS and Brownshirt uniforms.
One row back in the cortege in Darmstadt, western Germany, was his uncle, Lord Mountbatten, wearing a Royal Navy bicorn hat.

Another picture shows his youngest sister, Sophia, sitting opposite Hitler at the wedding of Hermann and Emmy Goering.

Explaining the attraction of the Nazis, 84-year-old Prince Philip told an American academic: "There was a great improvement in things like trains running on time and building. There was a sense of hope after the depressing chaos of the Weimar Republic.

"I can understand people latching on to something or somebody who appeared to be appealing to their patriotism and trying to get things going. You can understand how attractive it was."

He added that there was 'a lot of enthusiasm for the Nazis at the time, the economy was good, we were anti-Communist and who knew what was going to happen to the regime?'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html

Your point being?

 

[Casually Red]

Casually Red Regarding your "Prince Phillip is a Nazi" type post earlier

it wasnt a Prince Philip is a nazi post . It was a post outlining how the British state had been quite chummy with them too . Although I didnt mention stuff like handing them the gold reserves of annexed Czechslovakia..the Rimini list... and stuff like that.

Its an issue of glass houses and stones. .

 

[Casually Red]

Your point being?

glass houses stones and the chucking of.

 

[Fuchs66]

it wasnt a Prince Philip is a nazi post . It was a post outlining how the British state had been quite chummy with them too . Although I didnt mention stuff like handing them the gold reserves of annexed Czechslovakia..the Rimini list... and stuff like that.

Its an issue of glass houses and stones. .

It wasn't the British state though was it (unless I missed something)? It was a couple of bods from the British Legion and a (then 16 years old) Prince Phillip who was visiting his sister and was impressed with the Nazis personally. Certain individuals on the Western side of the Irish sea were also smooching with Nazis.

 

[Casually Red]

"Fascism is an open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, the most chauvinistic, the most imperialistic elements of the financial capital... Fascism is neither the government beyond classes nor the government of the petty bourgeois or the lumpen-proletariat over the financial capital. Fascism is the government of the financial capital itself. It is an organized massacre of the working class and the revolutionary slice of peasantry and intelligentsia. Fascism in its foreign policy is the most brutal kind of chauvinism, which cultivates zoological hatred against other peoples."

that communist definition of fascism by Georgi Dimitrov sums up the nature of the Kiev regime and its methods pretty accurately . Fascism isnt defined by mere symbolism and salutes. Its what happens when a Billionaire supported by a crew of other billionaires and millionaires becomes president after a coup and decides he has to suppress an entire ethnicity along with leftists who oppose him and his biilionaire freinds. And when other fellow billionaires fund and lead fascist military detatchments to terrorise and suppress the population . And when government ministers... that many here plead arent fascists..comfortably pronounce their neighbours to be barbarians and subhumans and their land requiring cleansing and filtration . And where the populace..the children..are openly encouraged to sing about hanging Russians.

Thats classical fascism doing what fascism does. And the struggle against it is an antifascist struggle by any sane definition of the term.

 

[seventh bullet]

You clicked on my ignored post.

So, why did you post a photo of a Russian fascist (and leading figure in the DNR and Novorossiya) greeting other fascists while calling them leftists?

 

[coley]

glass houses stones and the chucking of.

Aye, I thought you were going down that road, however the western powers and their establishments might have rubbed along with auld Adolf in some measure, but for the life of me I can't recollect any country (other the Russia) joining in with them and invading their neighbours after WW2 started.
Feel free to correct me if I have missed something!

 

[coley]

"Fascism is an open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, the most chauvinistic, the most imperialistic elements of the financial capital... Fascism is neither the government beyond classes nor the government of the petty bourgeois or the lumpen-proletariat over the financial capital. Fascism is the government of the financial capital itself. It is an organized massacre of the working class and the revolutionary slice of peasantry and intelligentsia. Fascism in its foreign policy is the most brutal kind of chauvinism, which cultivates zoological hatred against other peoples."

that communist definition of fascism by Georgi Dimitrov sums up the nature of the Kiev regime and its methods pretty accurately . Fascism isnt defined by mere symbolism and salutes. Its what happens when a Billionaire supported by a crew of other billionaires and millionaires becomes president after a coup and decides he has to suppress an entire ethnicity along with leftists who oppose him and his biilionaire freinds. And when other fellow billionaires fund and lead fascist military detatchments to terrorise and suppress the population . And when government ministers... that many here plead arent fascists..comfortably pronounce their neighbours to be barbarians and subhumans and their land requiring cleansing and filtration . And where the populace..the children..are openly encouraged to sing about hanging Russians.

Thats classical fascism doing what fascism does. And the struggle against it is an antifascist struggle by any sane definition of the term.

Give it a fuckin rest FCS

 

[Casually Red]

Aye, I thought you were going down that road, however the western powers and their establishments might have rubbed along with auld Adolf in some measure, but for the life of me I can't recollect any country (other the Russia) joining in with them and invading their neighbours after WW2 started.
Feel free to correct me if I have missed something!

well Britain invaded neutral countries like Iceland and the Faroe islands, and tried to do the same in Norway and Denmark . And was hell bent on invading the other bit of Ireland it wasnt already invading as Montgomery revealed in his memoirs and Churchill was threatening in his radio broadcasts . Churchills chum Brendan Bracken eventually talked him out of that one.


http://www.irishcentral.com/opinion...alera-was-pro-hitler-131940993-238107031.html

 

[coley]

well Britain invaded neutral countries like Iceland and the Faroe islands, and tried to do the same in Norway and Denmark . And was hell bent on invading the other bit of Ireland it wasnt already invading as Montgomery revealed in his memoirs. Churchills chum Brendan Bracken eventually talked him out of that one.


http://www.irishcentral.com/opinion...alera-was-pro-hitler-131940993-238107031.html

Jeez, I love revisionists, it was a possibility, envisaged at a time of national survival, you really are a straw clutcher, what is it with your hatred of all things British?

 

[Casually Red]

Jeez, I love revisionists, it was a possibility, envisaged at a time of national survival, you really are a straw clutcher, what is it with your hatred of all things British?

 

[coley]

Aye, but in all of your postings there is an underlying (often overt)hatred of the English/ British / western people/ establishment!
Just curious?

 

[Casually Red]

Give it a fuckin rest FCS

i will when they do

even the German news is agog at these guys helmets

 

[Casually Red]

Aye, but in all of your postings there is an underlying (often overt)hatred of the English/ British / western people/ establishment!
Just curious?

so its not just the British people but westerners in general i hate now. Because i cant distinguish between the governed and the governors.

Thats not curiosity...its just pure daft .

 

[coley]

so its not just the British people but westerners in general i hate now. Because i cant distinguish between the governed and the governors.

Thats not curiosity...its just pure daft .

Fair enough, you don't hate the soldiers in NI, just the govt that sent them there?

 

[Casually Red]

Fair enough, you don't hate the soldiers in NI, just the govt that sent them there?

believe it or not i once felt so sorry for a wretched little ginger haired one I actually gave him a cigarette. He actually asked me for one one night ..in a district were people wouldnt even speak to them or serve them in shops...just after his mates had finished frisking me. He looked so miserable my instinctive response of go fuck yourself gave way to pity .
Its pretty pointless hating people who havent personally harmed you themselves. Its one thing to hate an institution and what it represents, another thing entirely to hate actual human beings as individuals . I hate the British army as an institution, not as a bunch of individuals
I oppose fascism on the basis it thrives upon the promotion of hating other people .

 

[Casually Red]

Jeez, I love revisionists, it was a possibility, envisaged at a time of national survival, you really are a straw clutcher, what is it with your hatred of all things British?

your own sentence there outlines why people sometimes get pissed off with a certain British attitude. Our national survival is just as important as yours. You dont seem able to appreciate thats how other people percieve things. Perhaps thats why you get confused so easily.

 

[coley]

believe it or not i once felt so sorry for a wretched little ginger haired one I actually gave him a cigarette. He actually asked me for one one night ..in a district were people wouldnt even speak to them or serve them in shops...just after his mates had finished frisking me. He looked so miserable my instinctive response of go fuck yourself gave way to pity .
Its pretty pointless hating people who havent personally harmed you themselves. Its one thing to hate an institution and what it represents, another thing entirely to hate actual human beings as individuals . I hate the British army as an institution, not as a bunch of individuals
I oppose fascism on the basis it thrives upon hating other people .

I can't reply to this at the mo, as it has me chuckling at so many discrepancies.
But I will try to respond tommorrow

 

[Casually Red]

i cant wait

 

[seventh bullet]

Stalin went into the pact to ensure that the Soviet Unions "sphere of interest" could be secured without any interference from Germany (and ensure that Germany wouldn't interfere with the Russian-Japanese spat at the time) but the cooperation especially military cooperation preceded this particular pact.

How do you mean not like the post above?

Apologies, I was too hasty and thought it was just 'Oh, but look here, Stalin was a horrible man' banality.

Manoeuvring under the conditions of 'capitalist encirclement,' so while being conscious of its weakness at a decisive time the USSR could enter into a war favourably and not only safeguard the Soviet system (seen as properly socialist) but spread it to other countries?

 

[dylanredefined]

Apologies, I was too hasty and thought it was just 'Oh, but look here, Stalin was a horrible man' banality.

Manoeuvring under the conditions of 'capitalist encirclement,' so while being conscious of its weakness at a decisive time the USSR could enter into a war favourably and not only safeguard the Soviet system (seen as properly socialist) but spread it to other countries?

Unfortunately completely fucked it up and nearly lost the entire country.

 

[seventh bullet]

Really?

 

[DairyQueen]

Isn't he talking about the here and now and what needs to be done?

The 'poles' he talks of are the vast zones of a future world and what it could look like.



Russians will dominate the northern part of the Pan-Eurasian Zone. This area (like the others) will not be governed through one huge state but several states will associate. But the nation-state with its own territorial distinction and following its own particular interests at the expense of others is too narrow for him. A supposedly new form of sovereignty will emerge.

To be honest, I have a very hard time following that, working out what are so-called 'big spaces', and also he talks about strategic partnerships and the need to preserve identities and the like. I think he is basically saying the 'big spaces' are changing.

It is strategically imperative for Turkey to establish a strategic partnership with the Russian Federation and Iran. Turkey will be able to maintain its traditions only within the framework of a multipolar world. Certain factions of Turkish society understand this situation - from politicians and socialists to religious and military elites. Thus, the Moscow-Ankara axis can become geopolitical reality despite a long-term period of mutual estrangement.

I might try and read his stuff in depth, but will probably read up on the New Right first.

 

[seventh bullet]

You said you've read him before, though.

I've already given you some useful info but you dismissed it out of ignorance and arrogance (your reaction to a photo of Alain Soral, talk of Tony Blair, opinions confidently aired on papers and books you've never read etc).

 

[Idris2002]

Really?

Really? Maybe. I recently read something arguing that if they'd move Red Army units closer to the border in the early summer of 1941, the state wouldn't have been threatened with total collapse after Barbarossa. As it was, Jerry got as far as the outer suburbs of Moscow, which shouldn't have been allowed to happen at all. . .

 

[DairyQueen]

You said you've read him before, though.

I've already given you some useful info but you dismissed it out of ignorance and arrogance (your reaction to a photo of Alain Soral, talk of Tony Blair, opinions confidently aired on papers and books you've never read etc).

Right seventh bullet. That's what happened. That's exactly what happened.

If you can make sense of what he has written in the link you posted up, then good on you. It does not seem you can, as Dugin seems to be saying different things as you describe them (that is, he does not seem to reject nation states at all). But, I suppose you can always get on your high horse, shout abuse and post up pictures of fascists to educate everyone else.