Ukraine

[Casually Red]

Thanks for that. How the fuck you have the energy to keep up with all this stuff in such depth, I'll never know. I'll try and have a read of those two links, though.

Fragmentation of Russia - gotta be a bit of a long shot, surely? Even for weirdly obsessed yank nutters.

According to Robert Gates memoirs Duty , when the Soviet Union was collapsing in the early 90s there was a coterie of neo con assholes clustered around Dick Cheney who wanted to see not just an end to the Soviet Union but for Russia itself to be broken up so it could never again reasssert itself on the world stage . In much the same way as many including Thatcher were opposed to German reunification for the same reasons .
If we look at what NATO did next, despite its assurances to Russia it had no intention of spreading eastwards, it almost immediately set about expanding eastwards in order to tighten a military and political noose round Russias neck and is still doing it today very aggressively . At the same time the US been expending billions on attempting to effect political change in its interests both around and inside Russia . Which in the case of Georgia involved an actual military assault on Russian areas and the killing of Russian troops cheered on by the same lunatics who are crafting US policy in the region right now . As lunatic as that may appear .

And when you take into consideration the billions expended inside Russia on its liberals and western values, well I can see why Putin appears paranoid . You get stuff like this ....

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/718061

thats the stuff the western military want to sponsor as mainstream opinion . A massive fuck off to it is well justified imo .

 

[Casually Red]

yeah I know, it was me that found the original the first time round, and sourced the photoshopped version.

then why was your post asking for the original. I was only trying to be helpful .

 

[free spirit]

he was a nazi, fuck off with that shite

Hitler was a german nationalist with an enemy in the USSR . Calling him a nazi doesnt make that an oversimplification, its a statement of fact . Ernst Roehm was a nazi and Hitler imprisoned and killed him . Still a fucking nazi .

he was a fascist Ukrainian nationalist, and one time Nazi collaborator, but calling him a Nazi is an over simplification of his politics IMO. And being a nationalist in a country that's occupied by Poland and Russia, then by Germany, then by Russia is a little different to the Nazi Germany version - ie seeking to throw out occupying forces from your country is different to seeking to take over and occupy surrounding countries.

Semantics maybe, but these sort of nuances are important to understanding the situation IMO.

 

[free spirit]

then why was your post asking for the original. I was only trying to be helpful .

it wasn't, you just misread it. I was just saying that it wasn't just the prephotoshopped version that had bee found, I'd also found the post in which the photoshopped version first appeared on the internet.

 

[Casually Red]

he was seeking a bit more than removing other armies. He wanted the civilian population, man woman child, old ,young, unborn cleansed as well, and attempted it with great gusto . With the most barbaric of means . That makes a hell of difference between a bit of patriotism and puts one firmly in the nazi book imo .

 

[Diamond]

Casually Red - do you think that Russia would be legitimately exercising its international rights if it unilaterally annexed the ethno-linguistically Russian areas of Eastern Ukraine in the same manner and using the same modus operandi as has happened in Crimea?

 

[Casually Red]

Casually Red - do you think that Russia would be legitimately exercising its international rights if it unilaterally annexed the ethno-linguistically Russian areas of Eastern Ukraine in the same manner and using the same modus operandi as has happened in Crimea?

What happened in Crimea wasnt unilateral . A former part of Russia , an autonomous republic which had been arbitrarily removed from Russia at the stroke of a Ukrainians pen in the 1950s, asked to go back into Russia after a right wing coup dismissed the national constitution without regard to anything but force . It held a referendum on the matter and the result was overwhelmingly in favour . So that was a bilateral decision , and not Russias to make . It was a Crimean autonomous republics decision to leave Ukraine after a ruinous coup . It was a Russian decision to accept them back .

Previously Id been under the impression this was illegal . But apparently after Kosovo, were there was no referendum, this type of thing actually was legal according to the UN . NATO have a massive base in Serbia now as a result of that genie being let out of the bottle.

Id hope that other regions of Ukraine dont follow suit, and settle for a federalised future instead . Because after the coup Ukraine has simply become much too polarised to function as a state in its current form and western Ukraine in particular seems bent on a path of self destruction in persuit of a liberal EU ideal it can never attain. But if federal regions vote to leave Ukraine I honestly dont have a legal argument against them now, not after the legitimisation of Kosovo . ANd if they do leave its up to Russia whether to accept them into the Russian Federation or not . Again I dont see any legal argument against it .

 

[seventh bullet]

Khrushchev wasn't Ukrainian but Russian, just spent his early years there.

 

[Diamond]

Your answer is rambling and opaque Casually Red.

The question again, in simpler terms:

In your opinion Casually Red, would Russia's annexation of Eastern Ukraine, through the same modus operandi that was deployed in Crimea, be legitimate?

Please clarify.

 

[Casually Red]

Your answer is rambling and opaque Casually Red.

The question again, in simpler terms:

In your opinion Casually Red, would Russia's annexation of Eastern Ukraine, through the same modus operandi that was deployed in Crimea, be legitimate?

Please clarify.

im answering the question, not your repeated trolling . Either fuck off or go on the fuck off list . All the same to me .

 

[Fuchs66]

i dont give a toss how many bases you were attempting to pry into. They arent entered by massive underground tunnels. Massive troop build ups require massive troop movements in those areas. Reporters on the ground havent witnessed any . The Russians have invited observers into these areas , including Ukrainian . Theyve even let the Ukrainian airforce do aerial reconaissance.

eta

youve worked in 4 bases. Your post gave the impression the Russian military had taken control of areas they previously didnt and were preventing access. its how it read.

Yawn

Still 4 more areas that I've worked in than you have and I have a better understanding of Russian security measures than you have.

But hey if you've googled something you believe in more, fill yer boots.

You certainly have the ability to read meaning into posts that doesn't exist.

 

[Casually Red]

Yawn

Still 4 more areas that I've worked in than you have and I have a better understanding of Russian security measures than you have.

But hey if you've googled something you believe in more, fill yer boots.

You certainly have the ability to read meaning into posts that doesn't exist.

 

[Diamond]

im answering his question, not your repeated trolling . Either fuck off or go on the fuck off list . All the same to me

Not so keen on being challenged, Casually Red?

Bit of free speech got your goat?

I know just the place you cam escape from such nuisance behaviour...

 

[Fuchs66]

Fuck me! You really don't have a life, do you?

E2A Casually Red

 

[Diamond]

Good one!

Really nailed that there!

 

[Casually Red]

im a magnet for these freaks

 

[Diamond]

Might be an idea to play the ball Casually Red, not the man.

People would almost certainly grant your opinions greater weight if so.

Just an idea, mind...

 

[Casually Red]

Fuck me! You really don't have a life, do you?

E2A Casually Red

you tell me o wise one of the all knowing

 

[Casually Red]

Might be an idea to play the ball Casually Red, not the man.

People would almost certainly grant your opinions greater weight if so.

Just an idea, mind...

says the freak who came steaming into the thread with

Casually Red - you simply lack credibility. There is a certain foaming at the mouth quality to your contributions ahorita and that's not surprising given how tricky it must be to be a Putinist or, at the very least, an apologist for Putinism right now...

I suggest you confine yourself to your own balls

 

[Casually Red]

anyways, derails aside, anti junta protestors in another city have seized the local council buildings, police HQ and SBU HQ

A place called Slavansk this time, outside Donetsk

http://rt.com/news/rally-donetsk-slavyansk-ukraine-160/

also according to that report further government buildings have been seized in towns called Krasnuy Liman, Krasnoarmeisk and Drujkovka . With the police either unwilling or unable to take action despite the coups warnings of harsh crackdowns . The coup have also sacked the head of the SBU in Donetsk while the regions police cheif has resigned too . The first signs are emerging now of these anti coup protestors being armed and having seized weapons from the state authorities . Which is a bit worrying to say the least .

It also seems to be quite noticable that its mainly pensioners who seem to be at the forefront of these protests . Whether thats due to communist party participation or the fact pensioners stand to be the worst affected by austerity programmes I dont know . Could be both .

 

[Fuchs66]

you tell me o wise one of the all knowing

Just going with the evidence presented here.

Oh I forgot evidence doesn't play a great role in your life does it?

 

[Casually Red]

Just going with the evidence presented here.

Oh I forgot evidence doesn't play a great role in your life does it?

admittedly not as much as constant derailment of threads seems to be your purpose in life,no

 

[Fuchs66]

admittedly not as much as constant derailment of threads seems to be your purpose in life,no

Derailing? How? By pointing out that I actually have experience in Russia? That actually have worked with the Russian military? And that I think you're a complete and utter bullshitting arse?

 

[Casually Red]

yes youve been pointing this out continually . You seem to think it gives you license to pronounce on anything you like , such as Russias imminent invasion of everywhere. And you also seem to think it means nobody is allowed contradict you . Simply because youve previously been in Russia snooping on their military .
You arent providing any actual information to the contrary, just pointing to your own credentials as an official snooper and therefore font of all rightness and knowlege as to whats happening right this minute. While others have called you out on the noticably anti Russian sentiments youve displayed here which means your quite biased, and therefore untrustworthy as regards sourceless information.

And now because your irked at having your baseless claims contradicted you seem to think it entitles you to continually derail the thread with personal attacks on those who contradict you . While yet again pointing to your employment record as some sort of basis for justifying those baseless claims .

 

[Fuchs66]

yes youve been pointing this out continually . You seem to think it gives you license to pronounce on anything you like , such as Russias imminent invasion of everywhere. And you also seem to think it means nobody is allowed contradict you . Simply because youve previously been in Russia snooping on their military .
You arent providing any actual information to the contrary, just pointing to your own credentials as an official snooper and therefore font of all rightness and knowlege as to whats happening right this minute. While others have called you out on the noticably anti Russian sentiments youve displayed here which means your quite biased, and therefore untrustworthy as regards sourceless information.

And now because your irked at having your baseless claims contradicted you seem to think it entitles you to continually derail the thread with personal attacks on those who contradict you . While yet again pointing to your employment record as some sort of basis for justifying those baseless claims .

Again this post is based on nothing I've actually said but rather your warped interpretation of my posts.
Nothing you have said has contradicted the posts I've made but rather you are arguing against imaginary statements that are produced in your rather strange mind.

 

[Casually Red]

Again this post is based on nothing I've actually said but rather your warped interpretation of my posts.
Nothing you have said has contradicted the posts I've made but rather you are arguing against imaginary statements that are produced in your rather strange mind.

are you snooping around a Russian military base in Russia right now this minute ?

If you are and theres a massive troop build up inside it then your employment is very relevant indeed to the issue at hand. If you arent then its very not .

I cant make it any more simpler .

 

[Fuchs66]

are you snooping around a Russian military base in Russia right now this minute ?

If you are and theres a massive troop build up inside it then your employment is very relevant indeed to the issue at hand. If you arent then its very not .

I cant make it any more simpler .

No I'm in Syria.
E2A another country you have no experience but plenty of opinions of.

 

[Casually Red]

then your personal insight into whats going on inside Russian military bases along the Ukrainian border at the moment is about approximate to his

 

[Fuchs66]

then your personal insight into whats going on inside Russian military bases along the Ukrainian border at the moment is about approximate to his

Please direct me to the post (that does not exist purely inside your head) where I said I have knowledge of what is going on inside any Russian military base "at the moment"? But as you obviously do have insight into what is actually going on with the Russian military why don't you let us know rather than disseminating RT crap?

 

[Casually Red]

Please direct me to the post (that does not exist purely inside your head) where I said I have knowledge of what is going on inside any Russian military base "at the moment"? But as you obviously do have insight into what is actually going on with the Russian military why don't you let us know rather than disseminating RT crap?

you were coming out with posts dismissing the questioning of a Russian military build up , and pointing out youd been inside their bases . Repeatedly . You were dismissing cristicism of NATOs claims while bigging yourself and your dismissals up by poiting to your experience in the field .
If you arent trying to claim some knowlege then you wouldnt be repeateldy referring to your expertise on what goes on inside russian military bases in opposition to a rejection of NATOs claims .Its perfectly clear what your at , as well as your insistence on derailing the thread with this fucking tedium .
The threads not about you .
I suggest you either provide some information as regards the subject at hand or just give over . Youve took up half the page with your personal background by this stage .

fell free to have the last word btw