Two people killed in Railton Road 30th October 2022

[A380]

Not sure if this bit of Railton road is still in my Council ward. But LJ and Brixton aren't heavily policed if you mean by actual cops on the street.

Reading about policing and one person I read pointed out that the Tories have been "defunding" the police minus these funds being put into social programs.

Kind of perverse right wing support of the progressive BLM defund the police argument.

What happens in practice is that crime hotspots finally get attention of police. Due to ( justified) complaints and Cllrs taking issues up. Brixton Station road he recent example.

Short term more police presence reduces problem.

But underlying socio economic factors are of course not addressed. So problem is in reality pushed elsewhere.

On this I don't blame police. In this country social problems have been off loaded onto police.

Given that the underlying economic situation is only going to get worse. That inequalities aren't going to be dealt with I don't see how this kind of criminality is going to be reduced.

The other argument is to blame behaviour and social practices such as " Drill" music as creating a climate that fosters violence in a cultural way. So instead of dealing with structural inequality and racism focus on cultural practices.

Which fits in with Tory emphasis on " personal responsibility"

Blame Drill music.

1 in 5 cops cut since Cameron oozed his way into power. Which, if you have a genuinely held belief that the institution of the Police is inherently wrong is great news, otherwise it’s a fucking disaster. Apparently, almost any long term crime reduction and community cohesion work has gone the way of lunch breaks for nurses. This is both a combination of what’s happened to the rest of the public sector plus the added personal animosity of two of the last four Tory PMs…

Policing in the UK reduced to 25%of old bill rushing from crisis to crisis to try, and fail, to keep on top of the nines calls whilst 70% do the minimum on investigations with work loads about double the ‘safe’ levels. Everything else done by the other 5%. You don’t build relationships with communities or educate and divert would be offenders blattng from job to job on blue lights for 12 hours or investigating eight rapes at a time with three years service, who knew?

The FackingMet moved from a 32 borough model to 16 response areas, but apparently the staffing for these new units went up by about 10% for each command unit, so a 40% real terms cut. Most of the other forces are applying equally dangerous models.

Policing isn’t supposed to provide much in the way of long term solutions, what it’s supposed to do is deter and displace crime and Anti social behaviour and secure the transitionary space in crisis. ( and protect capitalism obvs- be interesting to see what would happen in a summer of riots now most officers won’t go anywhere near public order policing due to time and getting their rest says re-rostered to fuck) Whilst other agencies prevent and deal with long term issues. Trouble is those other agencies are equally or even worse fucked or in many places ( youth services) almost non existent now.

And of course the old bill are now the service of last resort for all the other services slashes. So, just one example, a huge amount of front line community mental health support is provided by people who’ve had a 40 minute power point and, if they are lucky, a five minute role play. What could possibly go wrong?

Apparently.

Still ACAB.

 

[GarveyLives]

Condolences to the friends and family of the Late Lamar Scott (also known as Perm)​

 

[Pickman's model]

It's not particularly. I rarely see uniformed officers actually on the street (and the neighbourhood station on CHL closed). Far more likely to see the blue lights speeding to an incident.

Not sure if this bit of Railton road is still in my Council ward. But LJ and Brixton aren't heavily policed if you mean by actual cops on the street.
what i
Reading about policing and one person I read pointed out that the Tories have been "defunding" the police minus these funds being put into social programs.

Kind of perverse right wing support of the progressive BLM defund the police argument.

What happens in practice is that crime hotspots finally get attention of police. Due to ( justified) complaints and Cllrs taking issues up. Brixton Station road he recent example.

Short term more police presence reduces problem.

But underlying socio economic factors are of course not addressed. So problem is in reality pushed elsewhere.

On this I don't blame police. In this country social problems have been off loaded onto police.

Given that the underlying economic situation is only going to get worse. That inequalities aren't going to be dealt with I don't see how this kind of criminality is going to be reduced.

The other argument is to blame behaviour and social practices such as " Drill" music as creating a climate that fosters violence in a cultural way. So instead of dealing with structural inequality and racism focus on cultural practices.

Which fits in with Tory emphasis on " personal responsibility"

Blame Drill music.

what i meant by heavily policed is that you have sudden incursions of police to deal with situations - that there's no light touch neighbourhood policing (although as i've said before, neighbourhood policing's really about gaining intelligence). the police come in looking for trouble and with that attitude have no difficulty finding it.

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

I think there is quite a lot of Police patrolling the area in unmarked vehicles.

 

[A380]

what i meant by heavily policed is that you have sudden incursions of police to deal with situations - that there's no light touch neighbourhood policing (although as i've said before, neighbourhood policing's really about gaining intelligence). the police come in looking for trouble and with that attitude have no difficulty finding it.

Intelligence gathering was, and probably is, mostly about intelligence gathering. Neighbourhood policing, when it used to exist in anything more than lip service was much more about structure building and partnership construction- when there was anyone out there to partner with. Most intel that came back from it was low level bollocks that got weeded on its first weed date although people always used to say the intelligence harvest was gold from local bobbies that was mostly rubbish with occasional exceptions to prove the rule…

It’s like the difference at protests, disorder or risk football, between protestor liaison teams, FIT teams, evidence gathering teams and any UC that might or might not be there. PLOs might stick in a bit of intel but it’s not why they are there.

People get paranoid about the wrong things whilst ignoring or missing the things they probably should get worried about…

Supposedly.

 

[friendofdorothy]

At 2pm ish today still a big chunk of Railton road closed off to all pedestrians and traffic. Still tape everywhere and police. Loads of forensics people there and tents up.
So fucking sad.

 

[Pickman's model]

Intelligence gathering was, and probably is, mostly about intelligence gathering. Neighbourhood policing, when it used to exist in anything more than lip service was much more about structure building and partnership construction- when there was anyone out there to partner with. Most intel that came back from it was low level bollocks that got weeded on its first weed date although people always used to say the intelligence harvest was gold from local bobbies that was mostly rubbish with occasional exceptions to prove the rule…

It’s like the difference at protests, disorder or risk football, between protestor liaison teams, FIT teams, evidence gathering teams and any UC that might or might not be there. PLOs might stick in a bit of intel but it’s not why they are there.

People get paranoid about the wrong things whilst ignoring or missing the things they probably should get worried about…

Supposedly.

I'm going back to the stated purpose of snt teams as they were laid out on police websites and documents, not some paranoid fantasy. And if you look at who the plos are, they're often drawn from the same department as the fit. Coincidence? I think not. And having one Hornsey fit cop tell me he's effectively a political policeman, the same one who asked me to be an informer, I think I've a reasonable grasp of what they're up to

 

[A380]

I'm going back to the stated purpose of snt teams as they were laid out on police websites and documents, not some paranoid fantasy. And if you look at who the plos are, they're often drawn from the same department as the fit. Coincidence? I think not. And having one Hornsey fit cop tell me he's effectively a political policeman, the same one who asked me to be an informer, I think I've a reasonable grasp of what they're up to

FIT and PLOs require very different mindsets and training. Not saying there aren’t some people who do both. Buts it’s not ideal.

And you are right about intel gathering always being one of the stated sins of neighbourhood policing on glossy brochures and websites. It’s not a paranoid fantasy at all. It’s just it never really worked … more an accounts / chief officer fantasy.

 

[Gramsci]

On the ground Ive mixed feelings about "community policing". A lot of people on estates feel that central Brixton is focus as its the "gentrified area" and the Council want to keep it "clean". The on off attention that central Brixton gets means problems get pushed out onto working class estates where they become invisible so to speak.

So they want more community policing not less.

The second issue is the Council stance on policing. Which changes depending on audience.

See the thread on recent public meeting in Brixton on Casey report.

Urgent: Baroness Louise Casey's Review into the Culture of the Metropolitan Police Service Public Meeting Karibu Centre Mon 24th Oct 6 pm

You could always come to one of my meetings and find out... Find out what? That people had been misleadingly informed by you that you are a former deputy mayor? Or that you are holding a meeting on a preliminary report that you weren't even aware had already been published online by the Met...

www.urban75.net

In practise the Council "support" the police. The events on Clapham Common are fast forgotten. They also have favourite community leaders who support the police uncritically. Who get favoured status.

I know Lee Jasper gets a lot of stick here. But he will criticise the local police. One reason I think the local Labour orthodoxy keep him at arms length. Its not part of their mindset. As it harks back to the what they see as bad old days of GLC and Red Ted.

Its a double bind for local communities.

I dont feel the local Council want to do anything that is "critical" of police. Even if they know there are issues.

On other hand my local MP Helen Hayes- moderate Labour- will ask hard questions of the Met when needed.

 

[Not a Vet]

Well the new commissioner wants to beef up
Neighbourhood policing

 

[CH1]

I know Lee Jasper gets a lot of stick here. But he will criticise the local police. One reason I think the local Labour orthodoxy keep him at arms length. Its not part of their mindset. As it harks back to the what they see as bad old days of GLC and Red Ted.

Funnily enough when there was a leadership crisis at the Community/Police Consultative Group for Lambeth in the 1990s the Police were happy enough to accept Lee Jasper as Chair, which lasted a couple of years I believe.
Maybe on the LBJ principle: "In 1971, President Lyndon Johnson said of a dangerous rival: "It's probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in."
1. Ed Miliband and Diane Abbott: better to keep your enemies close?

 

[A380]

Well the new commissioner wants to beef up
Neighbourhood policing

They always do...

 

[Not a Vet]

There’s a vigil at 1830 at the scene

 

[Not a Vet]

£20k reward on offer from crime stoppers and one person arrested (and bailed) on suspicion of manslaughter

 

[David Clapson]

I suppose if they're bailed and not charged it's not really progress.

 

[GarveyLives]

Most unfortunate:

"A man’s house was allegedly left ruined by police officers after they broke down his front door to raid the property following a shooting ..."

‘They left bloody footprints all over the carpet’: Police raid leaves man’s house trashed after Brixton shooting

 

[GarveyLives]

Condolences to the friends and family of the Late Lamar Scott (also known as Perm)​

(Source: as stated in image)

Note: The Late Lamar Scott (also known as Perm) is now being referred to as Lemar Rashawan Urqhart​

 

[GarveyLives]

"Second arrest made in Herne Hill double murder investigation

Detectives investigating the deaths of two men in Herne Hill have made a second arrest as they continue to appeal for information.

A 19-year-old man (B) was arrested late on Wednesday, 8 February on suspicion of murder. He remains in custody.

Guilherme Messias Da Silva, aged 23, and Lemar Rashawan Urqhart, aged 27, died on Railton Road, SE24 on 30 October 2022.

Police were called at about 19:50hrs to reports of gunshots heard in the Railton Road area.

Officers, including firearms officers, attended along with the London Ambulance Service and London’s Air Ambulance.

Guilherme and Lemar were found injured at the location and despite the efforts of emergency services, they were pronounced dead at the scene.

Detectives believe two cars were driving in the Railton Road area when one of the cars was in collision with Guilherme’s moped before further colliding with parked vehicles.

Lemar then got out of one of the cars involved in the collision and was pursued by a man, armed with a firearm, from the second car.

The man shot Lemar and returned to his car before leaving the scene.

A 25-year-old man (A) was arrested on suspicion of manslaughter on 8 November 2022. He was bailed to return pending further enquiries and has since been told that no further action will be taken.

Anyone with information should call the Major Incident Room on 020 8721 4961, call 101 or tweet @MetCC quoting 6166/30Oct22.

To remain 100% anonymous call the independent charity Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111."

Source: Metropolitan Police, 9 February 2023

 

[CH1]

"Second arrest made in Herne Hill double murder investigation

Detectives investigating the deaths of two men in Herne Hill have made a second arrest as they continue to appeal for information.

A 19-year-old man (B) was arrested late on Wednesday, 8 February on suspicion of murder. He remains in custody.

Guilherme Messias Da Silva, aged 23, and Lemar Rashawan Urqhart, aged 27, died on Railton Road, SE24 on 30 October 2022.

Police were called at about 19:50hrs to reports of gunshots heard in the Railton Road area.

Officers, including firearms officers, attended along with the London Ambulance Service and London’s Air Ambulance.

Guilherme and Lemar were found injured at the location and despite the efforts of emergency services, they were pronounced dead at the scene.

Detectives believe two cars were driving in the Railton Road area when one of the cars was in collision with Guilherme’s moped before further colliding with parked vehicles.

Lemar then got out of one of the cars involved in the collision and was pursued by a man, armed with a firearm, from the second car.

The man shot Lemar and returned to his car before leaving the scene.

A 25-year-old man (A) was arrested on suspicion of manslaughter on 8 November 2022. He was bailed to return pending further enquiries and has since been told that no further action will be taken.

Anyone with information should call the Major Incident Room on 020 8721 4961, call 101 or tweet @MetCC quoting 6166/30Oct22.

To remain 100% anonymous call the independent charity Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111."

Source: Metropolitan Police, 9 February 2023

Could the name be a legacy issue? Summary of Individual | Legacies of British Slavery
(Scots Nats take note!)

 

[GarveyLives]

"Second arrest made in Herne Hill double murder investigation

Detectives investigating the deaths of two men in Herne Hill have made a second arrest as they continue to appeal for information.

A 19-year-old man (B) was arrested late on Wednesday, 8 February on suspicion of murder. He remains in custody.

Guilherme Messias Da Silva, aged 23, and Lemar Rashawan Urqhart, aged 27, died on Railton Road, SE24 on 30 October 2022.

Police were called at about 19:50hrs to reports of gunshots heard in the Railton Road area.

Officers, including firearms officers, attended along with the London Ambulance Service and London’s Air Ambulance.

Guilherme and Lemar were found injured at the location and despite the efforts of emergency services, they were pronounced dead at the scene.

Detectives believe two cars were driving in the Railton Road area when one of the cars was in collision with Guilherme’s moped before further colliding with parked vehicles.

Lemar then got out of one of the cars involved in the collision and was pursued by a man, armed with a firearm, from the second car.

The man shot Lemar and returned to his car before leaving the scene.

A 25-year-old man (A) was arrested on suspicion of manslaughter on 8 November 2022. He was bailed to return pending further enquiries and has since been told that no further action will be taken.

Anyone with information should call the Major Incident Room on 020 8721 4961, call 101 or tweet @MetCC quoting 6166/30Oct22.

To remain 100% anonymous call the independent charity Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111."

Source: Metropolitan Police, 9 February 2023

Assuming that the "19-year-old man" arrested 8 February 2023 on suspicion of murder has, nearly nine months later, now been released, this means that no-one has yet been charged with murder or any other offence in relation to this incident: