Two 18th century Chelsea houses collapse entirely ‘during basement conversion’

[Puddy_Tat]

I’d laugh if I hadn’t just put in a planning application to take out a large chunk of a structural wall in a similar style of property with four floors above. Eek.

 

[andysays]

I'm surprised it hadn't happened earlier tbh. I work in Chelsea and we get several resident association newsletters through our letterpost, and even most of the rich locals owning such houses are against this kind of monster monster extensions Some of them go down three levels down; others extend across the street and have a much larger footprint than that of the pre-exsiting house. Some of them have taken the best part of two years to dig out and build ffs...

I'm pretty sure similar accidents have happened before, though perhaps not on such a large scale and in that particular part of London

There are certainly various cases of the mega rich extending their already palatial residences in this way, including much reported court cases where others try to stop them (including Robbie Williams and Jimmy Paige if I remember correctly).

 

[cupid_stunt]

 

[Chilli.s]

Everyone knows that rich people require a far far greater amount of space to live in

 

[WouldBe]

Oops.

 

[blossie33]

I'm pretty sure similar accidents have happened before, though perhaps not on such a large scale and in that particular part of London

There are certainly various cases of the mega rich extending their already palatial residences in this way, including much reported court cases where others try to stop them (including Robbie Williams and Jimmy Paige if I remember correctly).

Yes, I don't know whether that's still on going at least their houses are in their own grounds, not attached.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I'm surprised it hadn't happened earlier tbh. I work in Chelsea and we get several resident association newsletters through our letterpost, and even most of the rich locals owning such houses are against this kind of monster monster extensions Some of them go down three levels down; others extend across the street and have a much larger footprint than that of the pre-exsiting house. Some of them have taken the best part of two years to dig out and build ffs...

In the very unstable London sand and clay.

 

[Sasaferrato]

fuck 'em

Were it just them, I agree. There is a good chance that this has affected buildings on either side.

 

[teuchter]

It's unlikely the owners will really lose out, unless they have messed up their insurance. In the long run it might even mean they can rebuild to a better standard.

Possibly rather more significant consequences for the building contractors or the structural engineers.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I hope their insurers tell them to get to fuck as well.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Were it just them, I agree. There is a good chance that this has affected buildings on either side.

Pretty good bet their neighbours are cunts as well tbf.

 

[MickiQ]

I suspect whoever owns these properties isn't going to be turning up at the local council offices with nothing but the shirt on their back asking for somewhere to live. The whole thing will get rebuilt most likely paid for by either the owners insurance or the building contractors.

 

[not a trot]

They should have consulted with Bernard Cribbens first.

 

[trabuquera]

I hope the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea is stepping in with generous and timely assistance to those affected by this disaster and possibly now homeless. Because y'know they're known for that

The billionaires I (might) have a smidgen of sympathy for are the neighbours.

Is there - or should there be - any legal penalty available for hamfisted developers who do stupid stuff that destroys historic fabric of buildings this age? Can we sic the National Trust on them? (like that would be a scary prospect, but still?) - apart from council sanctions, like 'your extension's got no permit and is anachronistic, pull it down and start again', is there a criminal offence of destroying architectural heritage? That terrace looks sure to be listed .

 

[WouldBe]

They really didn't take pride in their bricklaying until it came to the facing layer did they?

My front wall is straight lines with 1/4" mortar joints. Beyond that it goes to shit with wavey rows and bits of brick stuck in all over the place. Best seen round here where the front door is set back from the front wall or where there is an alley between terraced house and you can see where the good brickwork is keyed into the bodged brickwork.

 

[tim]

The applicant was a Jersey subsidiary of some property developer bloke's British Virgin Island company, so sad for him and his family.

At least he can look Grenfell in the eye now
How the Luftwaffe bombed the palace, in the Queen Mother's own words

 

[teuchter]

I hope the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea is stepping in with generous and timely assistance to those affected by this disaster and possibly now homeless. Because y'know they're known for that

The billionaires I (might) have a smidgen of sympathy for are the neighbours.

Is there - or should there be - any legal penalty available for hamfisted devellopers who do stupid stuff that destroys historic fabric of buildings this age? Can we sic the National Trust on them? (like that would be a scary prospect, but still?) - apart from council sanctions, like 'your extension's got no permit and is anachronistic, pull it down and start again', is there a criminal offence of destroying architectural heritage? That terrace looks sure to be listed .

I forget the exact details but I think it's something along the lines of: up to grade 2 listed, it's the local authority who is supposed to carry out enforcement, grade 2* and above, Historic England get involved.

Nothing to do with the national trust unless they happen to own the building.

 

[kenny g]

My front wall is straight lines with 1/4" mortar joints. Beyond that it goes to shit with wavey rows and bits of brick stuck in all over the place. Best seen round here where the front door is set back from the front wall or where there is an alley between terraced house and you can see where the good brickwork is keyed into the bodged brickwork.

I am wondering whether the shit brick work was a significant contributory factor in the collapse. Worst collective brick work I have seen is the Haringey ladder houses. Worst individual was in Central Manchester where they had demolished a terrace shop. Looked like they had run out of bricks when building a four storey and relied on render.

 

[danny la rouge]

I hope their insurers tell them to get to fuck as well.

Coincidentally the factors for my close (I don’t know if there’s an English equivalent, but it’s like a management company who look after flats) sent me a letter this morning with the new building insurance. There are clauses specifically excluding damage or collapse caused by works or builders destabilising foundations. Presumably I’d have to pursue the builders in that case.

A block did collapse at the other end of my street about a decade ago. I believe the building firm is still being pursued.

 

[hash tag]

I'm surprised it hadn't happened earlier tbh. I work in Chelsea and we get several resident association newsletters through our letterpost, and even most of the rich locals owning such houses are against this kind of monster monster extensions Some of them go down three levels down; others extend across the street and have a much larger footprint than that of the pre-exsiting house. Some of them have taken the best part of two years to dig out and build ffs...

I'm pretty sure similar accidents have happened before, though perhaps not on such a large scale and in that particular part of London

There are certainly various cases of the mega rich extending their already palatial residences in this way, including much reported court cases where others try to stop them (including Robbie Williams and Jimmy Paige if I remember correctly).

There was a very high profile one near Victoria coach station a few years back. The builders dug under the road, the road fell in and was closed for a while.

 

[teuchter]

My favourite london collapse was when the top of Will Self's house fell off.

 

[Wolveryeti]

A bit suspicious nobody was hurt. My hunch is an insurance fiddle or attempt to get round conservation regs.

 

[co-op]

My front wall is straight lines with 1/4" mortar joints. Beyond that it goes to shit with wavey rows and bits of brick stuck in all over the place. Best seen round here where the front door is set back from the front wall or where there is an alley between terraced house and you can see where the good brickwork is keyed into the bodged brickwork.

To be honest I don't think perfect straight brickwork really matters much, it's an obsession that comes out of college courses where it's a bit like london cabbies learning there's only one right way from Piccadilly to Stockwell, when there are about 5 ways that are perfectly good. Also the house-in-a-box style of mass-building where you want to get everything even so the doors and windows just slide straight in without any filling needed. There's loads of totally erratic brick-built structures all over the country, many of them hundreds of years old which have stood up perfectly well. So long as you have a some kind of bond holding things together periodically, a decent mix and a horizontal line, it'll stand up fine. This is partly why inner and outer leaves on walls have such different appearances, brickies mostly know the look of the outer is essentially decorative but it's no stronger than the inner.

The fetish over straight bricks is a bit Victorian really, order and the bureaucratisation of daily life in order to increase speed and productivity.

I'll get off me hobby horse now.

 

[T & P]

A bit suspicious nobody was hurt. My hunch is an insurance fiddle or attempt to get round conservation regs.

Apparently it happened at night. And I guess if you're rich enough to buy, own and renovate that type of house, you own another house elsewhere so don't have to live there whilst the work is being carried out.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

There was a very high profile one near Victoria coach station a few years back. The builders dug under the road, the road fell in and was closed for a while.

#prayforbelgravia

 

[UrbaneFox]

The billionaires I (might) have a smidgen of sympathy for are the neighbours.

This tragedy has brought people together and cemented relationships.

 

[quiet guy]

Sometimes you wonder if this is a deliberate collapse so that they get around having to repair a failing structure. As long as the insurance us watertight the worst they usually end up with is a paltry fine.
My thoughts are with the neighbours who now get all the shit stuff to sort out and potentially having to find alternate accommodation.

 

[Sweet FA]

Were it just them, I agree. There is a good chance that this has affected buildings on either side.

 

[hash tag]

It is the result of appalling workmanship/dodgy builders. Would a dodgy builder have the necessary insurance to cover this

 

[hash tag]

The Argos is reporting the council warned about the risks and not all of it had planning permission...
The council warned in the application letter that “if not properly managed, construction works can lead to significant negative impacts on the local environment, reducing residential amenity and the safe function of the highway”.


A planning application for the neighbouring property was made less than two weeks ago, with a council letter dated October 23 detailing “basement excavation, demolition of extension and roof terrace and replacement with a two-storey rear extension with roof terrace, and a single storey extension at the lower ground floor”.

It said a decision from the council was expected on November 19.