Twin Peaks returns to television.
- Thread starter Betsy
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Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
wow, a lot of plot in this week's episode.
had to skip through Eddie Vedder mind.
had to skip through Eddie Vedder mind.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Wait was that not the last one then?
Thank fuck for that if so. Would have been an epic headfuck of an ending.
Thank fuck for that if so. Would have been an epic headfuck of an ending.
elbows
Well-Known Member
It will be hard for them to have as headfuck an ending as the one to the original series 2, but maybe they will try.
But anyway yes, there are two episodes left, but they are showing them both back-to-back so this coming week is the finale.
Such a strong run of episodes leading up to this has left me giddy with expectation.So that was that.
Hated the first half of this series, loved the second half. The sexual politics is extremely dodgy throughout. There are basically no significant female characters with agency. The exception might be janey-e. But her agency seems to be very materialistic. She's basically happy when Dougie brings her money and he has a better body.
As far as explanations go. Not that it necessarily needs any. Best just left how it is. But.
Either a multiple universe, or all of twin peaks so far took place in the dream of Richard the fbi agent who wakes up in the motel, or there are various dreams of various characters.
There were moments in this series that were utterly brilliant.
Hated the first half of this series, loved the second half. The sexual politics is extremely dodgy throughout. There are basically no significant female characters with agency. The exception might be janey-e. But her agency seems to be very materialistic. She's basically happy when Dougie brings her money and he has a better body.
As far as explanations go. Not that it necessarily needs any. Best just left how it is. But.
Either a multiple universe, or all of twin peaks so far took place in the dream of Richard the fbi agent who wakes up in the motel, or there are various dreams of various characters.
There were moments in this series that were utterly brilliant.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
That actually came pretty close to what I thought would happen.
I hope Lynch leaves it at that. Particularly with Miguel Ferrer's death, his scenes with Lynch were just wonderful throughout.
I hope Lynch leaves it at that. Particularly with Miguel Ferrer's death, his scenes with Lynch were just wonderful throughout.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm happy without thorough explanations (plus its crazy to expect many with Lynch anyway). Probably not just a dream of Richard though, with him waking near the end, because very quietly, just before 'Carrie Page' screams at the end, Sarah can be heard calling Laura's name (audio likely copied from near start of original series pilot).
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Watched the final two last night. I enjoyed them and the ending felt satisfying, even if I don't fully grasp it. Could do with re-watching the whole thing (and series 1 and 2), but sadly not so feasible with TV shows as films. Which is why I much prefer Lynch in shorter format.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I've ranted about a few different sorts of dodgyness on those fronts before, but I must admit I'm still a newbie at specifically analysing this stuff on the basis of agency - if I've got the idea of agency right then Twin Peaks is not the easiest one to look at on this front because agency is a mess with many characters in general, not just the female ones. Its especially frustrating because there are a bunch of female characters that could have a hell of lot of more agency under only slightly different circumstances, especially in this new series, eg Diane. Audrey had bags of potential after the original 2 series but whatever the hell that was that happened with her in this series didnt, err, tick the right boxes although it was still interesting to watch.
But like I said, I'm easily confused with the agency stuff and twin peaks, probably because of the way the plot is so clear on some levels but then does bonkers things I cant fully nail on others, especially with this series. This series also demonstrated another factor that affects agency of all genders - ruthless in both its disposal of characters to make a nice scene or as a plot devices, and the merciless non-acknowledgement of their existence in the new series if they served no function. It's easy to spot some characters from the original that served important plot functions but may as well have never existed once they had served their purpose - eg Windom Earle. Relatively few shits were given about Maddys death at the best of times, beyond the powerful mood and revelation of that episode, and nobody ever talks about saving her this time around. Chet Desmond doesnt get a slippery multi-dimensional time teapot to live on in. Annie got a mention because the missing diary pages were in this seasons plot, but nothing beyond the minimum required.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
I agree with you, but you shouldn't feel obliged to have such a defence of the show. Not saying characters aren't Lynch's strong point, but in this series of this show most of them were either deliberately or lazily unexplained, as if explaining too much would detract from the show's mystery. The male characters aren't really any better written or given more depth than the female characters. Anyway, Lynch is the kind of guy who could get a show to pass the Bechdel test by having a random scene of two women talking about gardening tools if he really wanted to..
elbows
Well-Known Member
Well when it comes to the writing I suppose we should lay blame at Mark Frosts door too. Indeed before the new series began I got that Secret History book of his to see what angles were emphasised, and though it was quite an interesting read and it kept my attention, it didnt feel like a terribly well written book full of deep characters. But I've not read any of his stuff before and I'm obviously still a large fan of both the original and new twin peaks, so I guess I will have a chance to judge his writing again when that final book comes out (next month?)
As for feeling obliged to have a defence of the show, I didnt think I was defending it, I was just trying to wrap my head round aspects of it with mixed success.
I suppose I should be grateful we got through the series without any overt adverts for TM being rammed into our heads.
I must admit I enjoyed woodsmen head-crushing antics so much I was kinda hoping Freddie with his green glove would get in on the head-crunching action rather than just punching with it but hey ho.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
That stuff with the glove was just a bit too silly for me, though sometimes it's hard to judge what reaction Lynch is going for.
Out of all the Twin Peaks stuff, I love Firewalk With Me as a standalone thing and for its lack of lore, that it can just be interpreted as a simpler story of possession (with surreal elements). Been ages since I saw series 1 and 2, so I'm totally confused with what the evil/supernatural element of the show is meant to be... Spirits? Aliens? Something else? A mix of stuff? I didn't really like some of the effects in the new series either...
Out of all the Twin Peaks stuff, I love Firewalk With Me as a standalone thing and for its lack of lore, that it can just be interpreted as a simpler story of possession (with surreal elements). Been ages since I saw series 1 and 2, so I'm totally confused with what the evil/supernatural element of the show is meant to be... Spirits? Aliens? Something else? A mix of stuff? I didn't really like some of the effects in the new series either...
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elbows
Well-Known Member
Lynch and Frost together have certainly demonstrated more than the occasional taste for silly, absurd and slapstick in their tv shows, so I suppose I was already fairly well prepared to run with the green glove stuff without minding the level of silliness reached. Perhaps they decided they needed that sort of supernatural silly because Bob as an orb was also silly in a way.
The supernatural element wasnt that well explained in the original show, though its always been a mix of a few things, especially as I suspect the ideas evolved a fair amount during the original run. If I'm remembering right aliens are only touched on by brief references to project blue book, and almost all the talk is of 'forces', spirits, including inhabiting, parasitic ones, a 'presence' in the woods thats been there for as long as anyone in Twin Peaks can remember, lodges, dreams and visions.
Thats one thing the Secret History book is good for. Without spoiling it, it goes way more into depth regarding many of those things and some that barely got a look in on tv, including in this last series. Only a couple of characters prior history is really very much expanded in the book from what we've ever seen on the screen, but for those few that are expanded its certainly in the supernatural direction. A lot of this doesnt seem to end up being directly pertinent to the 3rd series but some small areas of unsteady ground are solidified by it in ways which I enjoy. The woodsmen, log lady and carl rodd (fat trout trailer part) gain some depth and links to other things for sure.
elbows
Well-Known Member
The one thing I wont miss now that it is over was random people on twin peaks facebook groups etc who were really upset they didnt get 'the real cooper' for ages. To that and some other complaints I say be careful what you wish for, because I think they were after a nostalgia fix and the familiar in too large a dose, and the new series could have been a really awkward disaster if it had tried to tread that ground too thoroughly.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
When 'original Cooper' did finally show up, it was a bit jarring. He'd spent twenty five years trapped in, effectively, hell then been through all sorts of further grief to get back to the real world, and yet there he was grinning and popping out catchphrases like nothing had happened. The portrayal of 'Richard' in the final episode felt like a much more realistic version of what might be left of Cooper. I can see why people are thinking the whole happy ending bit at the Sheriff's station was a dream, particularly with how Cooper was portrayed in those scenes.
For me I felt like the overlaid image of Cooper's face represented him looking back and seeing the destruction of Bob and Evil Cooper as irrelevant, a hollow victory in the context of the (quite possibly hopeless) fight against Judy, or evil itself. When Cooper says 'this is all a dream' he's not telling the audience that what they're seeing never happened. I think it's him realising that everything humans do, the importance they attach to little things and fleeting experiences, is all meaningless to the elemental forces that ultimately control our fate. Cooper could have stayed in Twin Peaks and lived happily ever after with people who loved him, but he chose to confront Judy instead. He's spent too long away from human lives to step back into one. He can't see the little things any more, the coffee and cherry pie, so he has to leave again and try to complete his quest.
But soon I'll probably think something completely different. If you want to find hope in that ending you can, if you want to see hopelessness you can find that too. But that's what Twin Peaks has always done, by juxtaposing dark inscrutable forces with domestic trivialities. The hope is not in the story itself, it's in all those little details of people living their lives while the story sweeps past them, dragging them in forever or just briefly touching them and moving on to somewhere else. All those characters whose stories were never resolved are all still out there somewhere, doing normal human stuff, as baffled as we are about what the fuck happened to them.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
And Norma and Big Ed got just about the most unambiguous happy ending possible in Lynch's world. Ed's face when Norma touches his shoulder, just beautiful. With all the weird shit that goes on it's easy to forget how good Lynch is with simple human emotion.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Bought both soundtrack albums this morning. 
moonsi til
worked it out now!
Haven't read the thread as just started to watch. Completed season 1 yesterday. Have 5 days to watch on Now TV before S2 goes from there.
Rosemary Jest
Wrong and Unstable
That Eddie Vedder scene with Audrey is heartbreaking and I'm not quite sure why.
I'm sure Lynch does though.
What an amazing programme, like others I wished it never ended.
Still love the old series though, and Fire Walk With Me is awesome despite what the critics say. Can't wait till the dvd so I can start all again.
I'm sure Lynch does though.
What an amazing programme, like others I wished it never ended.
Still love the old series though, and Fire Walk With Me is awesome despite what the critics say. Can't wait till the dvd so I can start all again.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Can't agree about Eddie Vedder - he should never ever be allowed to sing ever
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