Turkey, ISIS, Kurds and Syria
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teqniq
DisMembered
People on Twitter quite rightly pointing this out:
12 Hours. 4 Syrian Hospitals Bombed. One Culprit: Russia.
12 Hours. 4 Syrian Hospitals Bombed. One Culprit: Russia.
miss direct
misfungled
That is just awful. What on earth was going on in the minds of adults to take children there? Were they really caught up in thinking it would be an Islamic paradise? These poor children have to live with the decisions adults made for the rest of their lives, whether they make it to safety or stay there. Children need to be taken care of.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
What were they thinking?
Fighting a holy war which needed human resources.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
ManchesterBeth
Well-Known Member
Not harsh though is it? PKK has very llittle support in Turkish Kurdistan outside the professional activist base. earlier in the thread direct was saying education levels in tr are very low. well this is exactly the kind of rhetoric they played on in aligning with assad, instead of defending class interests they bought into the kemalist binary of islamists/secularists. hasn't the leftist CHP been tooting its horn about cleaning up the Kurds, ofc it has, woke diet fascism in overdrive. and now you get the PKK intelligentsia and western radicals repeating the exact same point of turkish ultranationalists 'kürtler kaypak' (kurds [by which they mean leaders] are slippery.) that's the irony of this. there's a difference between defending people against turkish and american/russian belligerent aggression, and claiming that rojava is some kind of fount of proletarian revolution. it's not much different to socialism in one country (or even worse, degenerated workers state) is it?
ManchesterBeth
Well-Known Member
I mean of course we're uneducated by that rhetoric,it's literally how they force conscription on us and get kurds to kill other kurds, because kurds on the turkish censuses are registered as Turks. my Kurdish uncles had to do compulsory military service otherwise they would be criminalised and not have access to jobs. until this is abolished, which is not in the interest of rich leftist turks who anyway have enough money to do the luxury 28 day bedelli military service this conflict is not going to end. this is the real secret to turkish primitive accumulation. kill its own surplus population thatit has designated as *its own*
ManchesterBeth
Well-Known Member
same as usual then. good cop bad cop SDF and Assad have reached an accomodation.
deal is looking fairly clear: Manbij and raqqa are going to be held by the regime or in some kind of power sharing system brokered by Russia & the same for the border area. Deir Ezzor will be hoovered up either in this same deal or at a later date.
deal is looking fairly clear: Manbij and raqqa are going to be held by the regime or in some kind of power sharing system brokered by Russia & the same for the border area. Deir Ezzor will be hoovered up either in this same deal or at a later date.
ManchesterBeth
Well-Known Member
internet access cut off in qamishli, no kurdish fighters at checkpoint. appears that they've surrendered it to assad to keep their pressure group propaganda org alive. now the question is how much of the remnants of the SDF will be integrated into Assad's state apparatus, because Bashir and the SAA can't rule the east alone.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
BBC News - Turkey-Syria offensive: Kurds reach deal with Syrian army
Kurds strike deal with Syria army to resist Turkey
Kurds strike deal with Syria army to resist Turkey
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is their statement - the bolded bit suggest they are offering to join the regime assault on Idlib in return - presumably from the north to complete encirclement:
“The self-administration of northern and eastern Syria, through its military forces, the Syrian Democratic Forces formed out of all the components of the Syrian self-management areas, fought terrorism starting from Kobani in 2014 and then continued the battles of liberation against this terrorist group in northern and eastern Syria, as it managed to liberate Manbij west of the Euphrates, Tal Abyad, Tabqa until it reached the alleged capital of ISIS “al-Raqqa” and then to Deir ez-Zor and declared victory over this group after five years of fighting on March 23, 2019.
This liberated geographical area is equivalent to one third of the total territories of Syria. The SDF lost 11 thousand martyrs and 24 thousand wounded, including permanent disabilities during these battles.
This was a high price to liberate the Syrians and all the components from the oppression and brutality of these terrorist organizations and to preserve the territorial integrity of Syria.
Our political project in northern and eastern Syria did not call for secession, but we have been calling for dialogue and resolving the Syrian crisis peacefully. We did not attack any country, especially Turkey, though it persists to call us terrorists while it played an important role in supporting terrorism in Syria. Today, Turkey is invading the Syrian territory liberated by the SDF with the blood and sacrifices of its children.
During the past five days, the most heinous crimes against unarmed civilians have been committed. The SDF has responded with dignity and courage resulting in the death and injury of its fighters, in order to save the Syrian integrity, however Turkey is continuing its assault. As a result, we had to deal with the Syrian government that has the duty of protecting the country's borders and preserve Syrian sovereignty, so that the Syrian army can enter and deploy along the Syrian-Turkish border to support the SDF to repel this aggression and liberate the areas entered by the Turkish army and its hired mercenaries. This agreement offers an opportunity to liberate the rest of the Syrian territories and cities occupied by the Turkish army as Afrin and other Syrian cities and towns.
Therefore, we call on all our people and all components in northern and eastern Syria, especially the border areas, that this deployment came through coordination and compatibility with the self-administration of the North and East Syria and the Syrian Democratic Forces.”
“The self-administration of northern and eastern Syria, through its military forces, the Syrian Democratic Forces formed out of all the components of the Syrian self-management areas, fought terrorism starting from Kobani in 2014 and then continued the battles of liberation against this terrorist group in northern and eastern Syria, as it managed to liberate Manbij west of the Euphrates, Tal Abyad, Tabqa until it reached the alleged capital of ISIS “al-Raqqa” and then to Deir ez-Zor and declared victory over this group after five years of fighting on March 23, 2019.
This liberated geographical area is equivalent to one third of the total territories of Syria. The SDF lost 11 thousand martyrs and 24 thousand wounded, including permanent disabilities during these battles.
This was a high price to liberate the Syrians and all the components from the oppression and brutality of these terrorist organizations and to preserve the territorial integrity of Syria.
Our political project in northern and eastern Syria did not call for secession, but we have been calling for dialogue and resolving the Syrian crisis peacefully. We did not attack any country, especially Turkey, though it persists to call us terrorists while it played an important role in supporting terrorism in Syria. Today, Turkey is invading the Syrian territory liberated by the SDF with the blood and sacrifices of its children.
During the past five days, the most heinous crimes against unarmed civilians have been committed. The SDF has responded with dignity and courage resulting in the death and injury of its fighters, in order to save the Syrian integrity, however Turkey is continuing its assault. As a result, we had to deal with the Syrian government that has the duty of protecting the country's borders and preserve Syrian sovereignty, so that the Syrian army can enter and deploy along the Syrian-Turkish border to support the SDF to repel this aggression and liberate the areas entered by the Turkish army and its hired mercenaries. This agreement offers an opportunity to liberate the rest of the Syrian territories and cities occupied by the Turkish army as Afrin and other Syrian cities and towns.
Therefore, we call on all our people and all components in northern and eastern Syria, especially the border areas, that this deployment came through coordination and compatibility with the self-administration of the North and East Syria and the Syrian Democratic Forces.”
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The same way that they treated people other who rebelled against them elsewhere in the country - detention, torture, rape, theft of property, victimisation and murder.
Here is the good MENA statement - their hopes at the end seem to be already dashed by the statement above (this below is just that bit):
We condemn Turkey’s new military operation and occupation in northeastern Syria, carried out with the complicity of the Trump administration. We state our full support for the popular and progressive resistance, both civilian and armed, in the Northeast of Syria against the Turkish led military aggression.
We denounce the interventions and the presence of other foreign forces in Syria (Iran, Russia and the United States). All these international imperialist and regional powers are enemies of the liberation and emancipation of the peoples of the region.
The Alliance of Middle Eastern and North African Socialists reiterates its support for the right of self-determination of the Kurdish people in Syria and in other countries in the region.
We also reaffirm our opposition to the dictatorship of the Assad clan-led Syrian regime and the Islamic fundamentalist movements, which are the two main pillars of the counter-revolution in Syria.
In the face of these enduring and destructive counter-revolutionary offensives, the best defensive is International solidarity. We stand with the communities in Syria and elsewhere in the world struggling for self-determination. The fight is universal!
Here is the good MENA statement - their hopes at the end seem to be already dashed by the statement above (this below is just that bit):
We condemn Turkey’s new military operation and occupation in northeastern Syria, carried out with the complicity of the Trump administration. We state our full support for the popular and progressive resistance, both civilian and armed, in the Northeast of Syria against the Turkish led military aggression.
We denounce the interventions and the presence of other foreign forces in Syria (Iran, Russia and the United States). All these international imperialist and regional powers are enemies of the liberation and emancipation of the peoples of the region.
The Alliance of Middle Eastern and North African Socialists reiterates its support for the right of self-determination of the Kurdish people in Syria and in other countries in the region.
We also reaffirm our opposition to the dictatorship of the Assad clan-led Syrian regime and the Islamic fundamentalist movements, which are the two main pillars of the counter-revolution in Syria.
In the face of these enduring and destructive counter-revolutionary offensives, the best defensive is International solidarity. We stand with the communities in Syria and elsewhere in the world struggling for self-determination. The fight is universal!
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
the very obvious question that he doesn't ask is 'and what good outcomes appear on the horizon by not doing a deal with the Devil?'
desperation is a pretty good motivational force, and i see no reason why 'the Kurds' shouldn't be desperate - they are sat in the desert surrounded by Wolves, they can either be torn apart by several, or swallowed by one. doing a deal with Assad, and he is the Devil, provides some immediate respite from a powerful, incredidibly hostile Turkey - what happens after that is tomorrows problem, and will have to be faced tomorrow. the fundamental point is that doing this deal with this devil at least gives them the breathing space to get to tomorrow, which in their current predicament is an achievement.
its not great, but its better than being dead today.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
by potentially bringing russia and iran into the mix - if they aren't there already - more players could join in
the americans may repent themselves of their exit from the game and return with a vengeance. and if turkey should be attacked, what chance of the invocation of section 5?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
i would wonder if this deal does bring Russia into the mix - as guarantors (for the moment) of Kurdish self-rule. Assad needs Russia to fight his war, Russia guarantees his good behaviour, Kurds join Assad, Assad gets a free win, Russia increases even further its political power within Syria.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
turkey gets whacked, demands nato assistance...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So, as per the details of the agreement any british-anarchist-pkker's now are going to be joining the Syrian National Army 5th Corps under Russian control with Iranian and Iraqi troops and a baath party section. Great work! Anarchists not only fighting for an ethnonationalist proto-state but now for two (or more) murderous authoritarian states and part of the syrian police state apparatus as well.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
nah, Putins' plan is to undermine NATO, not give it an excuse - even if an unlikely one - to hold together.
Putin won't attack Turkey for two reasons: firstly because Turkey is a strategic prize, and its up for grabs - its never going to get into the EU, and its becoming evermore semi-detached from NATO, it feels it has big boots and its politics and outlook just no longer fit within European interests. if Putin can slide Turkey into his sphere he can close the Black sea to NATO, further reduce NATO/western influence in Central Asia, and look like a winner - which is a huge part of his play. secondly, for all the hot air, Russia simply doesn't have the combat power to seriously fight Turkey.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what's the one thing turkey has which russia has always wanted?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
geography.
teqniq
DisMembered
Why am I not surprised?
UK refuses to join France, Germany and Netherlands in halting arms sales to Turkey
UK refuses to join France, Germany and Netherlands in halting arms sales to Turkey
not-bono-ever
meh
Time for Johnson to close the Dardanelles , just like his hero tried to
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