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Turkey, ISIS, Kurds and Syria

Reuters...

“Strike them with an iron fist, make them taste the hell of your fires,” the National Army, the main Turkey-backed rebel force, told its fighters in a statement.
 
News has made it hard to Google but think it was here that someone posted an article about Erdogan's militias that were operating against the Kurds long before this. Anyone remember the source?
 
Never mind, found it.

YouSir said:
News has made it hard to Google but think it was here that someone posted an article about Erdogan's militias that were operating against the Kurds long before this. Anyone remember the source?
Click to expand...

butchersapron said:
Remember this article i posted back in october about the potential planned Syrianization of Turkey and its argument that Erdogan has now moved to a "strategy may be summed up by the following formula: if you cannot take Turkey into Syria, then bring Syria into Turkey!" and it then lists all the potential elements for this syrianisation/civil war - well have a read of this and cross-ref with those elements suggested in the original piece:

Who controls the masked men — the ‘Esedullah team’ — now terrorizing Kurds in southeast Turkey?
Click to expand...
 
teqniq said:
Could the orange turd's decision to greenlight Turkey's incursion into northern Syria be this venal? Possibly. Trump has been criticised before for not completely divesting his business interests since becoming president.

Donald Trump's longtime business connections in Turkey back in the spotlight
Click to expand...

I doubt it. The performative aspect of it might be. But the US was never going to stand by a stateless group of lefty Kurds against a regional power/NATO member/economic asset/right wing nationalist autocrat.
 
miss direct said:
Could you clarify this please?
Click to expand...
I mean that i expect the PKK to react with car-bombs and suicide attacks in turkey, probably under the banner of a hands off group like the Kurdistan Freedom Hawks or TAK as happened across 2016- and probably stepped up car-bombings under the resistance banner in afrin in syria.
 
YouSir said:
I doubt it. The performative aspect of it might be. But the US was never going to stand by a stateless group of lefty Kurds against a regional power/NATO member/economic asset/right wing nationalist autocrat.
Click to expand...
Yet this was the bet the PKK bosses decided to place all 'the kurds' money on. Again.
 
butchersapron said:
I mean that i expect the PKK to react with car-bombs and suicide attacks in turkey, probably under the banner of a hands off group like the Kurdistan Freedom Hawks or TAK as happened across 2016- and probably stepped up car-bombings under the resistance banner in afrin in syria.
Click to expand...

Willing to bet Erdogan factored that in as a positive in all this.
 
kebabking said:
What other options do you think they had at the time?
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Depends which 'at that time' we're talking about - 2011-12 they had the clear option of joining with the wider revolution instead of allowing assad to remove his forces from kurdish areas to stem the tide that was just about to engulf his regime. A wider victory then would have likely resulted in an internationally brokered outcome that meant either regional autonomy (as they now claim was always their sole demand) or some sort of internationally recognised looser federation with the KRG as a step towards an independent form of kurdistan further down the line. Which, of course, would and will always be opposed by turkey - or may even lead to yet another kurdish civil war, but that option was there at that point.

After Kobani and the use of the USAF i think the thoughts switched to making as much use of that help as possible to gain as much territory as possible within syria as quickly as possible (you could say the flattening of raqqa and the civilians deaths there was one of the prices for that, but that's for a wider argument i haven't time for i think) and to then use them as a bargaining chip when the conflict dies down, with the US being the guarantor, rather than a slower and clearly arab led and dominated clearing of the rest of the northern syria, or a push against assad in the north east to open another anti-regime front. They chose the US and helped produce the conditions that meant that any other options dissapeared over the horizon rather than becoming more likely. And not for the first time.
 
Idlib has been under attacks for months - hospitals targeted. Civilians killed day after day after day. Pics that you DO NOT want to see day after day. Nothing from the left. Rojava touched and it's all station go. At the start of this the PKK made a choice to play on western fetishism of kurds and a converse barbarity of the arabs. Well, what's left now of that decision?
 
TomUS said:
Butchers,
What do you think of the possibility that many Kurdish fighters would slaughter the ISIS prisoners rather than release them and have to fight them all over again?
Click to expand...
Not much. Slaughter the prisoners is not a situation that could happen here. They'd get overrun and killed most likely. Any fighters will be bumped up to other fightingers stuff i reckon. Any uprising, now is the time.....

Of course, that could be encouraged...*nods*
 
There's always mistakes made under pressure, but the more i think on it, the model assad's regime would be what rojava would look like if given time. Authoritarian., culturally exclusive, own fucking police, wider bigger GOD decides. Like the KRG
 
butchersapron said:
Idlib has been under attacks for months - hospitals targeted. Civilians killed day after day after day. Pics that you DO NOT want to see day after day. Nothing from the left. Rojava touched and it's all station go. At the start of this the PKK made a choice to play on western fetishism of kurds and a converse barbarity of the arabs. Well, what's left now of that decision?
Click to expand...
PKK? You must be mistsken there are no links. Emily Maitlis said.
 
butchersapron said:
Idlib has been under attacks for months - hospitals targeted. Civilians killed day after day after day. Pics that you DO NOT want to see day after day. Nothing from the left. Rojava touched and it's all station go. At the start of this the PKK made a choice to play on western fetishism of kurds and a converse barbarity of the arabs. Well, what's left now of that decision?
Click to expand...

Isn’t that last bit a little harsh from afar? A stateless people fighting for their lives. Confusion in many directions about the exact nature of the various rebel groups. IS were undoubtedly barbarous in Kobani and elsewhere. That doesn’t excuse any atrocities against Sunnis or silence as the bombs drop but the Kurds were undoubtedly worthy of support against IS invaders.

Peace and solution is needed not more war. I know you want that too.
 
“A Kurdish political leader, Hevrin Khalaf, and her driver were among those killed on Saturday, according to Kurdish forces. Handheld videos shot by the assassins widely distributed on the internet also show several people being repeatedly shot by the verge of a road. Their killers are heard to shout insults as they fire their military weapons at them. US officials have suggested the footage is authentic.”

Kurdish politician among nine civilians 'executed by pro-Turkey forces' in Syria | Syria | The Guardian
 
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