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Trident: the vote is today, 18th July 2016

Banging on about Trident – it’s Corbynism to a T | Archie Bland

This imagination free rascal has probably just got a weeks rent from 500 shitty uninspired words when he could have just used 3 letters- meh

I fucking hate the guardian, even seeing it on a Saturday, all smug, with Ottolenghis* face leering at me from the cover of the uninspired smug twee handwringing weekend magazine, makes me want to smash the shop windows. or even a stairwell window in a building that may have once rented an office to a labour MP's ward surgery.

* nothing personal Otts
 
Looking likely the MPs will vote for Trident replacement.

But is the £31bn with a £10bn contingency just the cost of the submarines or does it include the missiles and warheads?
 
weltweit said:
Looking likely the MPs will vote for Trident replacement.

But is the £31bn with a £10bn contingency just the cost of the submarines or does it include the missiles and warheads?
Click to expand...
That was never in any doubt.
The only question was to what extent the LP would deploy its weapons of mass self-destruction.
 
weltweit said:
Looking likely the MPs will vote for Trident replacement.

But is the £31bn with a £10bn contingency just the cost of the submarines or does it include the missiles and warheads?
Click to expand...

Just the four submarines. At the current estimate (edit: including the contingency, because its going to be used and then some) the cost per sub is more than what the Yanks are paying for each of their newest 100,000 ton, thousand-foot-long, air group of ninety aircraft, nuclear-powered supercarriers.

This vote is insanity.
 
not-bono-ever said:
Banging on about Trident – it’s Corbynism to a T | Archie Bland

This imagination free rascal has probably just got a weeks rent from 500 shitty uninspired words when he could have just used 3 letters- meh

I fucking hate the guardian, even seeing it on a Saturday, all smug, with Ottolenghis* face leering at me from the cover of the uninspired smug twee handwringing weekend magazine, makes me want to smash the shop windows. or even a stairwell window in a building that may have once rented an office to a labour MP's ward surgery.

* nothing personal Otts
Click to expand...

On one level he is right though; people don't care about it. They should - its £176 billion of their money, after all, spent solely so that we can make our own contribution to the apocalypse - but they don't.
 
Santino said:
What will be changed by this vote?
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Precisely nothing. It wasn't voting on a Bill (ie a piece of legislation that actually does something in law) it was voting on a "motion" which is when the House of Commons turns into a public school debating club for the day and everyone gets pompous and declamatory and then votes according to which ever position brings them temporary political advantage.

E.G. "This House believes that apples are better than pears", huzzah!

But not one thing has changed in law. Trident had already been approved by the Commons and was going ahead anyway. This was just theatre to con people who aren't paying attention and the media happily play along of course (although I notice it barely made the front page of the Telegraph so maybe even they are getting bored?).
 
Mr.Bishie said:
Chop chop Ms May, best crack on with austerity to pay this bill!

Bunch of fucking cunts.
Click to expand...

Nope. Trident comes out of the defence budget, which is pegged at 2% of GDP. So if we buy Trident, all that happens is we have less to spend on tanks, fighter-bombers, body armour, bullets and helicoptors. In fact the best argument for Trident is exactly this; it's a stupid waste of money but it stops our idiotic rulers getting their mitts on actual usable kit which would probably get us into some actual real wars.

If you want to beat swords into ploughshares then the vote would have to be whether or not we dedicate 2% of GDP to arms.


Eta; yes they are a bunch of fucking cunts, 'nope' was to what would happen to the money if it didn't go on trident.
 
co-op said:
... In fact the best argument for Trident is exactly this; it's a stupid waste of money but it stops our idiotic rulers getting their mitts on actual usable kit which would probably get us into some actual real wars...
Click to expand...

But the U.K. does have a habit of engaging in actual real wars already. Until we can stop that habit, it might be better for soldiers to have enough body armour and stuff.
 
Celyn said:
But the U.K. does have a habit of engaging in actual real wars already. Until we can stop that habit, it might be better for soldiers to have enough body armour and stuff.
Click to expand...

Which was the argument being put forward by some Labour M.P.s yesterday. Personally I think if you give the UK govt a load more aircraft carriers it'll get in a load more wars.
 
Nah, let them have aircraft carriers but not aircraft to play with. :D

I wonder if there's any hope that people might stop joining up for all these wars.
 
co-op said:
Which was the argument being put forward by some Labour M.P.s yesterday. Personally I think if you give the UK govt a load more aircraft carriers it'll get in a load more wars.
Click to expand...

Exactly The two we've got are specifally designed for going to bomb brown people or argentina ( as they see themselves as white) cant think of another bunch of white people who we arnt allied with :hmm: and arnt russian:(

Having the abilty to deploy a hi intenstiy war brigade anywhere on the planet gives the uk goverment the abilty to wreck most countrys.
At least trident is defensive you cant actually use it to achieve UK's goals.

Although a carrier does make a brillant mobile disaster relief base if you've already spent the cash on your toy.
Barrow CND member probably the uks most unpopular person :hmm:
 
Defensive? What, we won't use it till somebody nukes us? I didn't think that was the plan at all.
 
maybe I am being a twat, but why not just dump nukes and piggy back the USA's arsenal under the NATO umbrella ? saves us nearly 200 Bn and the likelihood of the UK wanting to nuke someone unilaterally is pretty low. or am I mistaking pride and image over like actual practicality ?
 
not-bono-ever said:
maybe I am being a twat, but why not just dump nukes and piggy back the USA's arsenal under the NATO umbrella ? saves us nearly 200 Bn and the likelihood of the UK wanting to nuke someone unilaterally is pretty low. or am I mistaking pride and image over like actual practicality ?
Click to expand...
:D

Oh, but we mustn't go "naked into the conference chamber". :(

And it lets the U.K. feel dead big and important and keep its permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council.

Dangerous willy-waving nonsense. :(
 
CnrIaDhWEAAup6o.jpg:large
 
What's the point. After thon prog a few months ago, we more or less told the world that the UK establishment wouldn't use nukes even if they were used in a first strike against our armed forces.
 
not-bono-ever said:
maybe I am being a twat, but why not just dump nukes and piggy back the USA's arsenal under the NATO umbrella ? saves us nearly 200 Bn and the likelihood of the UK wanting to nuke someone unilaterally is pretty low. or am I mistaking pride and image over like actual practicality ?
Click to expand...
There are huge sums of money involved particularly in respect of the US companies responsible for manufacturing the missiles and all the rest so I think there would have been a lot of arm-twisting from across the pond to make sure we bought their white elephant.

e2a Not even arm-twisting but more like lots of plausibly deniable backhanders in the form of seats on the boards of companies etc etc etc.
 
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co-op said:
Nope. Trident comes out of the defence budget, which is pegged at 2% of GDP. So if we buy Trident, all that happens is we have less to spend on tanks, fighter-bombers, body armour, bullets and helicoptors. In fact the best argument for Trident is exactly this; it's a stupid waste of money but it stops our idiotic rulers getting their mitts on actual usable kit which would probably get us into some actual real wars.
Click to expand...

thanks, I like that, one silver lining to the bleak shitwittedness of it all.
 
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