Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%

[Balbi]

See a few years back when NZ was banning conversion therapy a heap of the arguments made by our right wingers were literally ones from the UK.

I wrote about Section 28 and how it impacted a generation of kids, in the context of how the NZ right were attacking trans healthcare through opposition to a conversion therapy ban: This Bill Will Pass

I laid it all out then, opposition to puberty blockers, removing patient choice for teenagers - section 28. And in the UK all of it is literally happening.

We're not safe here either, we got conversion therapy banned and self id but one part of the current coalition government is organising with the Christian right to go after trans people, and guess where they're getting their tactics from? Aye.

 

[Balbi]

Huh who turned trans people into a politically contested idea? Who's decided that trans people are inappropriate content for young people?

Honestly this has happened so incredibly fast, but it's been warned about for over a decade by the community.

 

[PR1Berske]

I remember our sex ed (circa 1992 or so) was how it physically worked. That was it.

Lucky for me I wasn't interested in sex at all until my early 20s, but for teens having sex, fat lot of good that would have been.

I was at High School between 91 and 96. I've forgotten much of the experience except the sex education, which was a complete disaster:

1. One lesson which involved discussing how many different terms for having sex we could identify
2. One lesson that involved watching a video, which consisted of an animation showing a wizard walking backwards for some reason
3. One lesson where the "tough lads" made it impossible for anybody to ask questions so everything that hung in the air dissolved like candyfloss and that's that.

 

[two sheds]

Only thing I remember from early 60s sex education was a speaker called in being asked whether having hot baths makes you sterile and replied that he had five hot baths a week and has three kids.

Curbs on sex education use pupils as ‘political football’, school leaders say

Conservatives criticised over plans to ban sex and relationship lessons for children under nine in England

www.theguardian.com

The revised guidance will also restrict “explicit” discussions of important topics such as contraception and sexual violence until children are in year 9, the third year of secondary school when most pupils are aged 13.

So any kid being subjected to sexual violence can't talk about it to teachers? I'm not sure what 'explicit' means in those circumstances. And the bible really does need to be banned - spilling seed on the ground for contraception is the least of it, as I recall there are quite a few explicit discussions of sexual violence in there.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

So discussions/refutations of Tate and such people will be forbidden? They often go on about the 'social' aspects of sex. Or if someone's being bullied, accused of being gay or bisexual or trans in the playground - wouldn't that fall under this ban?

Sorry for the questions @Balbi - but is this going to mean book bannings in school libraries like in the US? The bible will be out for a start, and any children from fundy Christian parents will doubtless be told at home about the various people who will be damned - that can't be discussed either?

Depends what the law says and how it's interpreted.

I don't think any local authority or school was actually prosecuted under section 28, but meant that schools tended to be very risk averse, and not do / say anything that might have led to action being taken.

 

[Orang Utan]

Hey that's a lot more dangerous than it looks.

Sex education in English schools set to be banned before children are nine

Education secretary Gillian Keegan to announce guidelines for phased discussion of topics depending on pupils’ age

www.theguardian.com

No discussion of contraception, abortion, stds, sexual violence, domestic or relationship violence until Year 9 (age 13-14). At all.

So legislation targeting queer kids is gonna make all kids that little bit more vulnerable

Also:
“Pupils in year 7 will be able to be taught about the dangers of sending or receiving naked images or pornography, as well as about sexual harassment, stalking and grooming.”
Bit too fucking late for that, isn’t it? 27% of children have seen pornography before the age of 11, and that’s from the government’s own reports.
These restrictions are irresponsible and dangerous and show that this is not motivated by concern for children’s safety and wellbeing

 

[Rob Ray]

View attachment 424511

Huh who turned trans people into a politically contested idea? Who's decided that trans people are inappropriate content for young people?

Honestly this has happened so incredibly fast, but it's been warned about for over a decade by the community.

What this actually means is "I don't want my kids exposed to any other views than my own, because I'm not all that confident that my views are defensible." Radicals, meanwhile, are expected to suck up their kids being sent to history lessons about how great Churchill was, which of course is in no way "politically contested" content.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

What this actually means is "I don't want my kids exposed to any other views than my own, because I'm not all that confident that my views are defensible." Radicals, meanwhile, are expected to suck up their kids being sent to history lessons about how great Churchill was, which of course is in no way "politically contested" content.

The best bit is that these people manage to also proclaim themselves to be committed to 'free speech' when it suits them.

 

[Ax^]

The best bit is that these people manage to also proclaim themselves to be committed to 'free speech' when it suits them.

pure bullocks as your full aware it this was flipped to a Muslim parents against sex education they be the first to scream of the islamification of UK schools

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I genuinely don't know, but the attack on trans and non binary folks has brought us to the point of an effective Section 28 but just for trans people and that fucking legislation fucked up a heap of queer folks the first time round.

This is what the right wing has always wanted and the just asking questions gender critical crowd were happy to demonise trans folks to the point that we can return to the halcyon days of this 1987 election advert.

View attachment 424508

Police Out of School was a banger though.

“Police Out of School” – Hackney Teachers’ Association, 1985

In 1979 the Hackney branch of the National Union of Teachers (HTA) started a policy of non-co-operation with the police. The pamphlet reproduced below explains why. It is a remarkable document whic…

hackneyhistory.wordpress.com

 

[InArduisFouette]

so for a cynical attempt to retain a few votes in the next election the scum bag Tories are will in make children unsafe in their homes, limit knowledge and risk the mental health of any queer kids, also increase the spread of std and cause a spike in teen pregnancy

fucking dirt birds

children don't vote and young adults don't vote for the Selfservatives
the Selfservatives also think children are chattel goods

 

[Rob Ray]

Police Out of School was a banger though.

“Police Out of School” – Hackney Teachers’ Association, 1985

In 1979 the Hackney branch of the National Union of Teachers (HTA) started a policy of non-co-operation with the police. The pamphlet reproduced below explains why. It is a remarkable document whic…

hackneyhistory.wordpress.com

Given the absolute loons the police used to send to talk the kids ...

 

[SpookyFrank]

So we're not allowed to teach 'gender identity' any more. Fuck knows what that means in practice, am I expected to deny that trans people exist? This is incompatible with basic safeguarding and inclusivity. Leaves teachers massively exposed to swivel-eyed parents steaming in and trying to get teachers sacked or barred from teaching altogether. Puts schools in a very tight corner as well.

 

[Balbi]

Trans teachers eh. They're out there, doing their jobs.

 

[two sheds]

And the politicians know that it won't be them dealing with thousands of complaints and attempts to ban stuff, it'll be the teachers.

 

[Balbi]

Pupils in England can learn about gender surgery but not ‘ideology’, says Keegan

“I’ve seen some materials where they talk about gender identity being a spectrum, there being many different genders looking at, you know, trying to get children [to] do quizzes on, you know, what’s a different gender identity and what isn’t. Ignoring biological sex … a lot of that material has caused concern.”

Yeah so this is basically denying that gender is a thing at all, in favour of teaching kids that trans people only exist in terms of full gender reassignment surgery.

Keegan said this would not stop schools teaching children about people who undergo gender-reassignment surgery and that this distinction was a “sensitive way” to handle it.

Except teaching kids the only trans people are ones who've undergone surgery means the government is very very deliberately not letting them know that their gender presentation doesn't require surgery, hell it doesn't even require hormone treatment.

Oh and getting the surgery in the UK? A seven to eight year wait in the public system following referral to an adult gender identity clinic but faster if you go private (thanks to InArduisFouette for this correction) Insanely difficult. And this government and probably Labour will also ensure it's near impossible for young folks to access gender affirming care.

This is bad. And it doesn't even get into the other RSE stuff covered up thread.

 

[Balbi]

Some folks on social media are going through the draft guidance and yeah it seems to be a shopping list of anti trans activist demands.


So this one ties in with restricting gender affirming care for young people and the focus on the legal classification will probably be used as justification for not allowing social transition in schools - after all Cass did indicate along those lines.



Hoo boy they really think that telling young people that gender is different than sex, that it exists on a spectrum, that there's various different presentations is what convinces young people that they might be trans or non binary.

That's not how it works, unless you're an insane transphobe who believes you can indoctrinate kids into being trans.

It's basically a reheated "if you tell kids about non hetero relationships that makes them be gay" from the 1980s which led to Section 28 in the first place.

So if a kid asks about gender identity, schools should teach the facts about biological sex. That basically means not talking about anything beyond genitals and reproduction and chromosomes.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Pupils in England can learn about gender surgery but not ‘ideology’, says Keegan



Yeah so this is basically denying that gender is a thing at all, in favour of teaching kids that trans people only exist in terms of full gender reassignment surgery.



Except teaching kids the only trans people are ones who've undergone surgery means the government is very very deliberately not letting them know that their gender presentation doesn't require surgery, hell it doesn't even require hormone treatment.

Oh and getting the surgery in the UK? Insanely difficult. And this government and probably Labour will also ensure it's near impossible for young folks to access gender affirming care.

This is bad. And it doesn't even get into the other RSE stuff covered up thread

getting Gender Affirming surgery in the UK is not 'insanely difficult'

if you have the funds you can get top surgery in weeks and lower surgery in a just over a year ( that said lower for trans masc people is very expensive if a phalloplasty is desired)

the NHS pathway for trans women is supposed to take just shy of 3 years end to end currently running at around 7 to 8 years from initial referral to a GIC to accessing Gender confirming surgery on average

 

[Balbi]

My apologies, I meant difficult in the public system, not going private - with the GIC waiting list etc. I will edit that for more clarity, as 7 - 8 years is still a long time.

Thank you for spotting that Arduis.

 

[Cloo]

I love the way they blithely imply that biological essentialism is an uncontested ideology, despite the large numbers of people contesting it, which is why they feel they have to ban saying it.

 

[smmudge]

It risks pupils questioning their gender when they might not have done so otherwise.... i.e. it's wrong to question your gender??? Why is that something to actively discourage. Fuckin hell.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I bet that even though there's no gender identity in schools any more, I'll somehow still have to wear a shirt and tie to work while the women get to wear whatever they like.

 

[Cloo]

Yes, I wonder if boys will be able to ask why they can't wear skirts? No ideologies about gender there.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I love the way they blithely imply that biological essentialism is an uncontested ideology, despite the large numbers of people contesting it, which is why they feel they have to ban saying it.

Schools should teach the facts about biological sex.

Challenge accepted motherfuckers. I've got a genetics degree. I've got facts you are not going to like one bit and you've just compelled me to teach them to my students.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yes, I wonder if boys will be able to ask why they can't wear skirts? No ideologies about gender there.

Ludicrous isn't it? Like of course everything they've seen around them since they learned to focus their eyes has been teaching them gender identity and, lets be honest here, gender ideology.

Just, you know, the completely coherent and non-problematic version of gender identity and gender ideology where you get put in a pink box or a blue box at age zero and you fucking stay there.

 

[Dystopiary]

Some stuff I could say but it's just too personal. Suffice to say, I'm f'ing fuming.

 

[Balbi]

A story from down here and it's unpleasant, but just note how this is reported on in NZ compared to how the UK would have.

Transgender 18-year-old attempts surgery on himself at home due to lack of access

That three doctors wrote a journal article advocating for better access to care, that it clearly states this young person was assessed for mental health issues and later reported a huge improvement in their life following surgery.

It also quotes PATHA, but doesn't do the thing of approaching some anti-trans group purporting to be experts for "balance".

Needless to say, this article and all of the ones on this story will likely be subject to a complaint about balance - as any article that doesn't give anti trans activists a chance to tell nonsense always does.

I'm not kidding, there's a particular activist who submits around 1000 words in complaint for any story about trans healthcare that doesn't list her anti trans talking points, which is exhausting for journos and professionals to rebut and refute - and even then they escalate it to the media council so you have to repeat the process.

It's a deliberate tactic to exhaust the pro-trans community with behind the scenes justifying while the anti trans movement spews misinformation on every available channel.

 

[SpookyFrank]

And this is all for absolutely nothing. Just another doomed attempt to claw a few extra votes from miserable idiots who will piss and moan about things they don't understand and have no stake in just because they've been trained to. Same way you'd train a dog not to shit on the floor, only the other way round.

As a teacher, I'm ignoring this. My ultimate responsibility is to my students, some of whom are trans and non-binary. I'm not going to stand there and lie to them about their own experience of existing in their own bodies.

 

[two sheds]

I'm not sure you need to ignore it - what you said above seems eminently sensible

Challenge accepted motherfuckers. I've got a genetics degree. I've got facts you are not going to like one bit and you've just compelled me to teach them to my students.

 

[Orang Utan]

Presumably the proposed banning of teaching ‘gender ideology’ would include that of ‘gender-critical’ idealogues? Would only be fair.

Also, from what I have gleaned, there has been nothing to address the fact that children ask teachers questions about gender. Would this legislation prohibit answering those questions honestly and truthfully or does it only prohibit the teaching of gender identities?