Raheem
Well-Known Member
I wonder if anything in those photos might run against gender stereotypes, and if so what that tells us?
Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%
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Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Didn't know that. She got a new phone the other month, she was swithering until she was told it was pink. She said she was sure that there is a note on her account saying 'Tell her it is pink'.
Jennaonthebeach
What would Picard do?
This is where trans voices are vitally important. I grew up with this trans thing in me and it was there from before i can really fully remember. I vocalised it at around 6 years old, but i always knew it was wrong and i tried to hide it. It never went away despite everything i tried. so let's start there, right, as my example here is pretty typical.
It was never a choice!
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
Solidarity like
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Seriously.
Trans activists are sometimes characterised by the other side as being aggressive and demanding people believe in things that they find hard to believe in.
And here you are abusing someone on the internet because they take the radical and offensive position of "a bit cautious on the nature-nurture debate".
Please note, I am not trying to suggest that you therefore are what they say you are.
But you might want to think about whether it is a useful way to react to people. Up to you.
Please also not thar in typing this out I am thinking of your benefit not mine. You are entitled to find this patronising if you like.
Now, bye.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
oh look a post dripping in misogyny and seemingly made without any consideration of my educational, professional or lived experience background ...
yet Raheem believes they not the one embarassing themselves
Cloo
Banana for scale
Cisgender, heterosexual woman who 'inherently' went for male-associated toys and TV programmes as a child here, BTW.
And no, I don't think the world would have tried to 'trans' me if I grew up like that these days, because trans-supportive people don't think that everyone non gender-conforming 'ought' to be trans. My non binary teen, before they came out as such, went through a phase of presenting in a very masc way but no one seemed to be jumping out of the woodwork to try to convince them or me and my husband that they were a trans boy.
And no, I don't think the world would have tried to 'trans' me if I grew up like that these days, because trans-supportive people don't think that everyone non gender-conforming 'ought' to be trans. My non binary teen, before they came out as such, went through a phase of presenting in a very masc way but no one seemed to be jumping out of the woodwork to try to convince them or me and my husband that they were a trans boy.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
exactly , although there is a societal double standard where a tomboy or butch presenting AFAB person is seen as a choice and none threatening
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Where's the misogyny? I didn't see any.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
a post directed to a woman telling her that she absolutely doesn't know what she is talking aobut isn't misogynistic?
now what aobut if that woman also happpens to have a relevant primary qualifying degree, a role which involves governance oversight of that area of clinical practice AND lived experience of the condition ?
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
How do you want trans people/activists/allies to react, given an often hostile environment?
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
I don't see that as misogyny. It's not something that's just aimed at women. Men are often told they don't know what they're talking about, too.
Disagreeing with a woman isn't misogynistic, surely.
Thora
Differently Ethical
A baby choosing gendered toys after 9 or 12 months of being offered and expected to want gendered toys, of being handled differently, spoken to differently, dressed differently because of their sex, doesn't tell me anything about innateness.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
I think it depends. As I've said above, I don't have a firm view on the science. But at least some of the studies have been done on very young children. I'm not sure precisely, but first few weeks perhaps.
Then you get into what was found when, what possible other explanations might there be etc. None of which I really know about. I just don't think there's anything to be gained from dismissing those sorts of findings out-of-hand.
Thora
Differently Ethical
A baby of a few weeks old - an immobile blob basically - demonstrates a preference for gendered toys?
Raheem
Well-Known Member
I think it's more on the level of a gendered difference in preference for different types of object, but yes.
Just to repeat, I am not promoting this as brilliant science. It may be, or it may be seriously flawed.
1. It seems entirely plausible (in the sense that it does not contradict logic or anything we know about biology and genetics) that there could be predispositions to certain behavioural differences between male and female infants which, in combination with many other factors, are expressed as a contributing factor in the determination of their preference to play with certain toys rather than others. If they exist, such predispositions would not necessarily be operative in every infant, but would be theoretically statistically detectable across a large enough number of them.
2. It may well be impossible to determine the truth or falsehood of (1), due to the nature of socialisation and other influences.
3. Neither the truth or falsehood of (1) tell us anything about whether boys or girls should or should not play with any particular kinds of toys.
2. It may well be impossible to determine the truth or falsehood of (1), due to the nature of socialisation and other influences.
3. Neither the truth or falsehood of (1) tell us anything about whether boys or girls should or should not play with any particular kinds of toys.
You're assuming it's a coherent and consistent ideology. The gender critical position on any subject is what makes trans people look bad. It doesn't matter that it contradicts other positions they hold. So trans women are trying to force lesbians to have sex with them, but also trying to turn all young lesbians into men. Or hormones turn people into lifelong medical patients racked by side effects with crumbling bones, but people on hormones are also going to take over women's sports. Or gender is a social construct consisting purely of stereotypes which trans people reinforce, but also men are so inherently violent that even a trans child raised as a girl since infancy who never went through male puberty is as inherently violent as a cis man.
It may even not exist. Pretty sure 9-24 months is the range in the literature at which gendered preferences have been identified.
Cloo
Banana for scale
It says something that on seeing the date of Trans pride confirmed I'm feeling worried my teenager wants to go because of safety concerns. Something I wouldn't be concerned about if I had a kid going five years ago.
I'm sick of a minority fucking up the fabric of our society, and I don't mean trans people.
I'm sick of a minority fucking up the fabric of our society, and I don't mean trans people.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
No one should plat with toys that normalise cops
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
which is related in part of the developing intellect and sense of self which is strongly informed by the behaviours , attitudes and role modelling of others ...
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
yep,
before long i really do think thje Fascists are going to try something really daft in a daft = coccurance responded to by the 999 services as an MTA event
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
when someone who is presumed to be male demans a woman it always comes froma position of misogyny, what is sad is the number of womens whose misogyny is so ingrained they can;t see it and even exercise it themselves becasue they consider it to be a norm
this is why a lot of cis het men are veery afaird of women who they percieve as masculine whether that is becasue they are lesbians,. trans or beacuse they have served in the military or work in a 999 setting
rioted
redundant
What puberty did they go through?
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
i think you are missing the point , Rioted was demonstrating the lies of transphobes
Well not male puberty based on any of the changes that we know happen to adolescent boys. Or does the mystical essence of manhood mean it is still a male puberty despite not involving any of the descriptors we'd use to describe male puberty?
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
trans pride last year recruited a huge number of stewards and some very unobtrusive queer security to help the event be safer: The event went well despite 2023 also being a terrible year for trans oppression in the media and on the streets. Stewards are already being recruited and different groups consulted eg the support for disabled people wasn't as inclusive as it could have been and organisers are paying disabled trans people to take take part in focus groups now so as to design better support
( I know that wasn't your main point but I thought it was worth stating).
oryx
Sitting on the bok of the day
This, and I wonder how we got to this stage bearing in mind that trans people are a tiny minority (around 0.2 - 0.5%, I believe).
What actually drives peoples like JK Rowling and Graham Linehan? Both were successful writers so don't need to solicit attention this way. It's as if, now, they want to define themselves by being anti-trans rather than successful writers. I mean, why?
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Hello there. Are you still gender critical these days?
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