Top 100 Sources of Truth
- Thread starter Will2403
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Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Mao Zedong
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
This should be a good'un.
Tea?
Tea?
Will2403
Active Member
never studied any of this, taught myself all i know via the internet and i've not been actively interested in it for more than a couple years, so i'm ahead of the curve then! thanks
re. Mao, if his truth led him to commit such terrible crimes and kill so many people, how could his theory and practical implementations of those theories have been right?
Will2403
Active Member
oh jeez. is this like an introductory thread? cos i have already had 2 of those?
i'm like the newcastle united of urban posters
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Well, it's like, just because Hitler for example was a mass murdering cunt doesn't mean that there were reasons for why he became popular, that he wasnt' an astute political anaylst, despite being one of the most evil men ever, or that his successes etc can't be learned from. Not really comoaring Mao to Hitler but you know.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
i have a little sense of there being an elitist and sort of sneering attitude to some of the posters here towards those who are less well versed in these ideas. we all have to start somewhere.
maybe its the wrong sense and i'm just a annoying clown
to be honest, urban's probably not always the best place for everyoen to learn about politics. i've posted on here for years and still don't really have a clue
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
i have a little sense of there being an elitist and sort of sneering attitude to some of the posters here towards those who are less well versed in these ideas. we all have to start somewhere.
maybe its the wrong sense and i'm just a annoying clown
Dick measuring is standard behavior here, it ain't nothin' personal.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I don't think you should regard any person as a 'source of truth'. It might lead to you taking everything they said seriously. I think there are certain people I can learn more from than others - some of whom are on your list - but I still question what they say and think they are wrong sometimes.
Truth is a bit of a problematic word. It isn't that I don't think there is such a thing. It's just that as soon as people decide they're sure they know what the truth is, they close their minds. Thus preventing them from adjusting their worldview to a more 'truthful' position in the face of new ideas and evidence.
So I think it's better not to think of anything as the truth - just the best approximation to reality we can manage at the moment.
Truth is a bit of a problematic word. It isn't that I don't think there is such a thing. It's just that as soon as people decide they're sure they know what the truth is, they close their minds. Thus preventing them from adjusting their worldview to a more 'truthful' position in the face of new ideas and evidence.
So I think it's better not to think of anything as the truth - just the best approximation to reality we can manage at the moment.
Will2403
Active Member
Thanks Brainaddict. Great post.
When I wrote truth, I meant it as the gospel according to Urban75. Which I assumed to be people like Marx, Chomsky, Zinn and the others I have listed.
I think you are right about the foolishness of taking an author's or comedians or whoever's body of work and describing it as one thing. Chomsky is the guy I read / listen to or watch the most over the last couple years and I often find myself agreeing to everything he says, and he appears to use the best sources and his opinions very clear and straightforward to understand. When I first started watching clips of his I found myself totally disagreeing. I can still remember the kind of sense of what a mindfuck it was that everything he said was the opposite of or close to the opposite of how I perceived the situation. I remember being shocked in about 2003 to learn that Labour were right wing. I don't recall anything he has said to be untruthful, or proved incorrect by anybody credible, which obviously the powers that be would dearly love.
I love talking to people now who hold the same viewpoints that I used to hold and offering them a different perspective on their thoughts and I love seeing their reaction when they realise what I'm saying makes more sense.
As an aside, for Chomsky fans, what would be some points he has made that you disagree with. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but might come back to this.
When I wrote truth, I meant it as the gospel according to Urban75. Which I assumed to be people like Marx, Chomsky, Zinn and the others I have listed.
I think you are right about the foolishness of taking an author's or comedians or whoever's body of work and describing it as one thing. Chomsky is the guy I read / listen to or watch the most over the last couple years and I often find myself agreeing to everything he says, and he appears to use the best sources and his opinions very clear and straightforward to understand. When I first started watching clips of his I found myself totally disagreeing. I can still remember the kind of sense of what a mindfuck it was that everything he said was the opposite of or close to the opposite of how I perceived the situation. I remember being shocked in about 2003 to learn that Labour were right wing. I don't recall anything he has said to be untruthful, or proved incorrect by anybody credible, which obviously the powers that be would dearly love.
I love talking to people now who hold the same viewpoints that I used to hold and offering them a different perspective on their thoughts and I love seeing their reaction when they realise what I'm saying makes more sense.
As an aside, for Chomsky fans, what would be some points he has made that you disagree with. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but might come back to this.
AverageJoe
...
elbows
Well-Known Member
I was teasing.
Good
Im afraid I seldom miss an opportunity to rant about such characters, especially if Im not really sure how serious people are when linking to them.
AverageJoe
...
Good
No worries elbows - we've never met, and have rarely had banter, so I'm not suprised that wires were crossed.
I was fucking about though so sorry OP
elbows
Well-Known Member
The easiest criticism of Chomsky that I can come up with is that he covers the same ground again and again.
Even if someones analysis is almost perfect, it seldom covers wide enough ground, and as most are far from perfect the best approach is to take in as many different views as possible. I believe there are actual truths and realities, its not all just a matter of opinion, but at the end of the day as individual living things we have our own sense of reality, which is never quite the same as the absolute reality.
Even if someones analysis is almost perfect, it seldom covers wide enough ground, and as most are far from perfect the best approach is to take in as many different views as possible. I believe there are actual truths and realities, its not all just a matter of opinion, but at the end of the day as individual living things we have our own sense of reality, which is never quite the same as the absolute reality.
AverageJoe
...
jeff rense never did that
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You may as well add Alex Jones (Prisonplanet) and James Delingtroll to that rather small list.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Oh, yeah...what is "truth"? It's a bit subjective innit?
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Chomsky is very good - but I find him a bit dry - lacking in passion and inspiration. I think his analysis is too mechanistic when looking at power structures, he tends to see the power elite almost as a well oiled machine, working in concert towrads its own clearly defined - self interested goal - rather than an amalgomation of different power strutures that work together in general, but often have contridictroy and inflicting interests; i.e. the tensions between real-politic and idelogical drives apparent in the US establishment with regards to the the second Iraq war.
From reading Chomsky, its easy to fall into the trap of seeing corporate intersts, the military, the media, the political executive etc as a all part of of a co-ordianted, ideological, self concious conspiracy of interests and actions ('the man') - wheras the relationships between them - whilst there is a large amount of overlapping interests -is more subtle, nuanced and ambiguous.
I would recommend Foucault , Gramsci.
Away from academia - George Orwell, John Steinbeck.
Ms Kak recommends black feminst Belle Hooks.
From reading Chomsky, its easy to fall into the trap of seeing corporate intersts, the military, the media, the political executive etc as a all part of of a co-ordianted, ideological, self concious conspiracy of interests and actions ('the man') - wheras the relationships between them - whilst there is a large amount of overlapping interests -is more subtle, nuanced and ambiguous.
I would recommend Foucault , Gramsci.
Away from academia - George Orwell, John Steinbeck.
Ms Kak recommends black feminst Belle Hooks.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Yep, Foucault, Gramsci. Good stuff.
Anything by Adorno is worth a read
Debord's Society of the Spectacle is useful
Quite like Benedict Anderson
Stuart Hall (the sociologist) is good too.
Anything by Adorno is worth a read
Debord's Society of the Spectacle is useful
Quite like Benedict Anderson
Stuart Hall (the sociologist) is good too.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
But truth...well, that's a tricky one.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Why not? I find his analyis of power realationships and social control pretty useful - not an expert though.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Indeed, what is truth.
Everyone shapes their perception of events through the prism of their own beliefs.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
I think Foucault's take on the contingent production of truth doesn't sit very easily with the sort of truth the OP seems to be after.
Louis MacNeice
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
weltweit
Well-Known Member
pls expand / explain?
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