Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

[bimble]

i never knew those two are responsible for the term Millenials. Current crop is the 'Homeland Generation', according to them.

 

[Rsf]

i never knew those two are responsible for the term Millenials. Current crop is the 'Homeland Generation', according to them.

Yeah it pretty much all came from two American historians who first published their theory in the early 1990’s. I’ve followed it since the late 1990’s and used to contribute to the now defunct forth turning forums. The American political establishment bought into the idea early on though. Believe it or not the marketing industry that did more to popularise it than the politicans though, prior to Strauss-Howe the common belief was that young people would eventually grow up to be very similar to their elders. Generational theory told marketers this simply wasn’t true and that they could predict what would be wanted more accurately than that. It’s an interesting theory, one which I believe holds a lot of merit, but the fact that Steve Bannon mentions it in a movie means that one simply has to screech hysterically and foam at the mouth to anyone that mentions it according to a few far left morons. The ‘looney left’ is such an apt description...

 

[SpineyNorman]

You are not like those others, you are special.

/creepy

Grooming.

 

[Toast Rider]

i honestly can't even tell what body part that is

 

[Celyn]

What? . Is that a crown of thorns Jesus-y thing? I hope that is some sort of fake. How crazy can people be?

ETA - does TR have views about people from the Middle East?

 

[RD2003]

Grooming.

Flattery will get him nowhere.

 

[Red Sky]

The Forth Turning is the name of a book that expanded upon an earlier book about generational theory. It was written by two American historians, was popularised amongst the US political elite by Al Gore, but is widely believed on both the right and left in America.

It’s the idea that while history never exactly repeats its self the general moods do repeat themselves, typically in four districts eras each lasting a generation with an entire cycle being roughly the length of a human life.

The authors of the theory said the last fourth turning was from the Great Depression to the end of WWII after which a new political consensus and a new high arose.

Those who subscribe to this theory would say that the financial crisis was the start of the fourth turning of the current cycle, they might say that the 2010’s feels like the 1930’s and the Blair era felt like the 1920’s boom era if that makes sense? It’s not a prediction that any specific event in the past will happen again.

They believe when a generation grows up they are affected by the conditions they grow up in and this gives different generations different life perspectives and lasting personality traits, so that when each generation enters middle age and is in control each will shape society differently. The authors of the fourth turning predicted baby boomers selfish individualism would make life difficult for the young and the millennials in middle age would be the next great generation and drag the west out of its self made crisis.

So to answer your questions:

The populist right are unstoppable because of the inflexiblity of the boomer generation, they will not compromise or have much pragmatism at all. Therefore the things that are driving populism will continue and Brexit is at risk of turning into a complete shit show for the same reason.

Almost Nothing good is likely to come from right wing populism in and of itself but it will force needed change.

After a crisis a new generation comes along, sorts it out with a new consensus, the consensus stands firm for two generations then in the third it unravels and goes into a crisis. Thatcher major and Blair are seen as the third turning, the unraveling of the post war welfare state consensus.

How universal is this template supposed to be? Does it apply equally to 19th century Austria and the Aztec empire?

 

[RD2003]

Almost Nothing good is likely to come from right wing populism in and of itself but it will force needed change.

But what will this needed change consist of?

 

[mrs quoad]

What? . Is that a crown of thorns Jesus-y thing?

Note the word “prophet” in fake Arabic script below

(As noted by someone on “worst tattoos ever” )

 

[SpineyNorman]

i honestly can't even tell what body part that is

I think it's a calf but where the fuck was the pic taken? Looks like a weird fetish chamber. So someone told me...

I also thought he was wearing a strange spaceman helmet but I think that's meant to be the sun.

Can't be real can it?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Also looks like he's either got a gigantic zit or he's dribbling from the left corner of his mouth as you look at it.

 

[Toast Rider]

I think it's a calf but where the fuck was the pic taken? Looks like a weird fetish chamber. So someone told me...

I also thought he was wearing a strange spaceman helmet but I think that's meant to be the sun.

Can't be real can it?

Oh yes it can

Because Tommy Christ is the People's Princess

 

[The39thStep]

How universal is this template supposed to be? Does it apply equally to 19th century Austria and the Aztec empire?

I suppose if you just use the historical events that suit you you can adapt it to anything. Anyway if its something 'proven' thats going to happen we can all save our energy and watch it unfold on TV . Theres no need for anyone to do anything if the future is on auto pilot.

 

[RD2003]

I was once accused of basing my political outlook on the latest book I happened to have read (don't think it's at all true ), but it looks like it might be the case with rsf.

 

[Raheem]

i honestly can't even tell what body part that is

I think it's his face.

 

[existentialist]

Oh I’ll be back, now and again.

Can't. Fucking. Wait.

 

[Poi E]

I think it's a calf but where the fuck was the pic taken? Looks like a weird fetish chamber. So someone told me...

Probably prison, dude.

 

[Rsf]

How universal is this template supposed to be? Does it apply equally to 19th century Austria and the Aztec empire?

Most cultures have believed/acknowledged that there is a rhythmic or seasonal nature to history. The Romans even had a term for it. Christianity changed that mind set though because in Christian theology time is a linear concept with a beginning and leading to an ‘end of days’ for everyone, after which there is heaven and hell as a fixed eternal state. So the church used to see time as a journey towards a fixed end state. Communism and other utopian ideas that think they can control society enough to implement and keep a near utopia also tend to see things more linearly. They don’t imagine that there will ever be a break down or forty turning after their glorious revolutions. Other countries are in different parts of the cycle and it will manifest differently if the country is not democratic and ruled by just a few people. Are you actually interested in a discussion though? Or just another lefty bigot incapable of reason or debate?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Most cultures have believed/acknowledged that there is a rhythmic or seasonal nature to history. The Romans even had a term for it. Christianity changed that mind set though because in Christian theology time is a linear concept with a beginning and leading to an ‘end of days’ for everyone, after which there is heaven and hell as a fixed eternal state. So the church used to see time as a journey towards a fixed end state. Communism and other utopian ideas that think they can control society enough to implement and keep a near utopia also tend to see things more linearly. They don’t imagine that there will ever be a break down or forty turning after their glorious revolutions. Other countries are in different parts of the cycle and it will manifest differently if the country is not democratic and ruled by just a few people. Are you actually interested in a discussion though? Or just another lefty bigot incapable of reason or debate?

Clever little device you've got there. If you're incapable of addressing someone's point say they're a lefty bigot incapable of reason or debate then you can just dismiss them.

Just like the student identity politics left. Anyone with awkward questions is a bigot to be kept out of your safe space.

Special little snowflake rsf keeps getting triggered.

 

[teqniq]

Plus they're not actually interested in debate, not really.

 

[DotCommunist]

mmm. The wisdom of pre modern thinking. Sounds familiar.

 

[butchersapron]

This drivel is what people who've never read theory think that theory is.

Partridge theory, in fact

 

[Rsf]

This drivel is what people who've never read theory think that theory is.

Partridge theory, in fact

So, tommy could be getting out of jail this week, eh?

 

[existentialist]

So, tommy could be getting out of jail this week, eh?

WUT? I know you think you're that much cleverer than the rest of us, but perhaps you'd be able to patronise us with a little of the detail behind your enormous leaps of intuition?

 

[bimble]

Most cultures have believed/acknowledged that there is a rhythmic or seasonal nature to history. The Romans even had a term for it. Christianity changed that mind set though because in Christian theology time is a linear concept with a beginning and leading to an ‘end of days’ for everyone, after which there is heaven and hell as a fixed eternal state. So the church used to see time as a journey towards a fixed end state. Communism and other utopian ideas that think they can control society enough to implement and keep a near utopia also tend to see things more linearly. They don’t imagine that there will ever be a break down or forty turning after their glorious revolutions. Other countries are in different parts of the cycle and it will manifest differently if the country is not democratic and ruled by just a few people. Are you actually interested in a discussion though? Or just another lefty bigot incapable of reason or debate?

Sorry but this is drivel. One of the very few things i know about is the misuse of the idea of 'cyclic time' / that eternal return concept that you seem to be vaguely waving your hands about.
Also a brief look clearly shows they were only ever talking about 'anglo-american' history over the last 500 years (picking out whatever bits they felt like and leaving the rest).

 

[Rsf]

mmm. The wisdom of pre modern thinking. Sounds familiar.

Well Marxist thinking might be modern, but as ideas go it is one of the worst ever and lead to the death of hundreds of millions. And yes real communism has been tried before. The USSR was real socialism.

PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?

 

[teqniq]

Wrt to Stephen Yaxley Lennon and his ilk, I quite like this sentiment.

 

[Toast Rider]

Well Marxist thinking might be modern, but as ideas go it is one of the worst ever and lead to the death of hundreds of millions. And yes real communism has been tried before. The USSR was real socialism.

PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?

How did marxism lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions?

Is it a good thing to have tommy robinson walking around spouting ignorance and jeopardising serious criminal trials?

 

[ddraig]

<snip>

PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?

so you're now a supporter of law breakers?

 

[DotCommunist]

Well Marxist thinking might be modern, but as ideas go it is one of the worst ever and lead to the death of hundreds of millions. And yes real communism has been tried before. The USSR was real socialism.

PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?

did you know the romans had a word for a bundle of rods tied together? fascinating stuff