Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

[ddraig]

*round of applause
mask's proper slipped now eh

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

After Thatcher admiration and Bannon praising RSF is now pimping Bannon’s favourite “Fourth Turning” Strauss-Howe BS......
The Crackpot Theories of Stephen Bannon’s Favorite Authors
The delusion and beguilement is strong with this one.

 

[bimble]

.. I also believe we are about 9 years into a forth turning cycle of history when trust in institutions is at its lowest.

You are a Bannonite idiot.

 

[Rsf]

After Thatcher admiration and Bannon praising RSF is now pimping Bannon’s favourite “Fourth Turning” Strauss-Howe BS......
The Crackpot Theories of Stephen Bannon’s Favorite Authors
The delusion and beguilement is strong with this one.

Their first book I read was Generations, the history of America’s future after seeing it discussed on a program called ‘hard talk’ in the late 1990’s. I didn’t believe it then but found it interesting and waited to see if they authors were right, they were. That’s been clear for at least five years now. Generational theory has only recently been popularised in the U.K. but it was popularised in the USA by Vice President Al Gore in the 1990’s, he was so impressed by the original work he sent a copy to ever member of Congress. Generational theories is an interpretation of history not a political theory. Steve Bannons belief is that which ever side wins in the crisis era leading to the high will dominate for two generations until the next unravelling era. He is correct if history is anything to go by.

Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.

 

[YouSir]

Their first book I read was Generations, the history of America’s future after seeing it discussed on a program called ‘hard talk’ in the late 1990’s. I didn’t believe it then but found it interesting and waited to see if they authors were right, they were. That’s been clear for at least five years now. Generational theory has only recently been popularised in the U.K. but it was popularised in the USA by Vice President Al Gore in the 1990’s, he was so impressed by the original work he sent a copy to ever member of Congress. Generational theories is an interpretation of history not a political theory. Steve Bannons belief is that which ever side wins in the crisis era leading to the high will dominate for two generations until the next unravelling era. He is correct if history is anything to go by.

Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.

First book I read had talking animals, as I recall. You must have had a dismal childhood.

 

[RD2003]

Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.

No idea why you bother, no. Nor why it has taken you so long to wrap your tomfoolery around so many inch by inch mask dropping posts. What a bloody waste of time.

Intellectualised fascism is still fascism. You know that don't you?

 

[RD2003]

It seems to me that lots of people no longer trust the U.K. police to apply the same law equally to everyone with total unbiased impartiality. In these conditions many people will suspect conspiracy even if there is no evidence of one. I think political correctness, censorship and the criminalisation of speech is a large part of how we got here. It’s a truly depressing state of affairs. I also believe we are about 9 years into a forth turning cycle of history when trust in institutions is at its lowest.[/QUOTE]

Did the police ever 'apply the same law equally to everyone'...? Or was it always dependent on social class when it came down to it? The difference now is that, for a variety of reasons not too divorced from lunatics and charlatans having access to a wide audience on the internet, more people are inclined to look for easy and simplistic reasons and supposed solutions based on their own personal bigotries and preferences. In other words, the quirks of their own personalities.

What exactly is this 'forth (sic) turning cycle of history.' And what were the other three? (Another feature of the internet age-the coming into their own of pseudo-intellectuals.)

 

[Libertad]

I give up.

See ya.

 

[RD2003]

See ya.

I think he should stay. He hasn't been overtly antagonistic, and how else can we learn how these arseholes think?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

What exactly is this 'forth (sic) turning cycle

something to do with the falkirk wheel?

 

[YouSir]

I think he should stay. He hasn't been overtly antagonistic, and how else can we learn how these arseholes think?

10 minutes on Reddit.

 

[RD2003]

10 minutes on Reddit.

Fair enough, but I only visit this board, and don't think we should be afraid of debate with political enemies. What else is the point?

 

[YouSir]

Fair enough, but I only visit this board, and don't think we should be afraid of debate with political enemies. What else is the point?

There is no point, not really. Occasionally you can glean the odd gem of wisdom or source from some people, otherwise it's no more rewarding or better here than Twitter. On the politics section that is, I believe the other subs have their own thing. Either way, if you want to see some pretend clever racism it's all over right now, don't need it delivered to your door.

 

[classicdish]

Rsf - you want rational debate?

How do you know who has been sending the threats to Sarah Champion?

What is the evidence that the dangerous driving deaths had any connection to terrorism? Re. the driver's religion: his surname suggests his family is from the Hindu Kshatriya community in Gujarat, India. His first name is also Hindu.

I'd guess that the Sargon video has "a like to dislike ratio of over 100 to 1" because the vast majority of people who watch his stuff are already sympathic/fans/subscribers. It doesn't mean anything really.

 

[YouSir]

Rsf - you want rational debate?

How do you know who has been sending the threats to Sarah Champion?

What is the evidence that the dangerous driving deaths had any connection to terrorism? Re. the driver's religion: his surname suggests his family is from the Hindu Kshatriya community in Gujarat, India. His first name is also Hindu.

I'd guess that the Sargon video has "a like to dislike ratio of over 100 to 1" because the vast majority of people who watch his stuff are already sympathic/fans/subscribers. It doesn't mean anything really.

Of course they don't, they want their cleverness rewarded with affirmation, or to cause offence. Either one works.

 

[classicdish]

There are a lot of morons here who I would call the ‘looney left’ that are actually intellectually incapable of making rational arguments and have nothing else other than to resort to shaming, violence, oppression and censorship.

Can you link to some of these posts please?

If you can't back this up by linking to the specific posts and/or posters it suggests that you are just trolling - making a vague blanket statement aimed at provoking an angry reaction, so you can play the victim, amuse yourself seeing how much you can rile people and disrupt discussion and see how many alt-right/alt-light links you can post and figures you can name-check before you finally go too far.

 

[krtek a houby]

There are a lot of morons here who I would call the ‘looney left’ that are actually intellectually incapable of making rational arguments and have nothing else other than to resort to shaming, violence, oppression and censorship. Does that ever change anyone’s mind? I think not. Those people will likely never achieve anything and are often too thick, to arrogant or to sheltered and privileged to understand that the exact same things they advocate using against others could be used against them by a movement far stronger than they are.

You could also say that veiled threats of nebulous movements flexing their muscles isn't going to achieve much, either. And who here is censoring and oppressing you, that's a bit of a dishonest accusation.

What is the message that you want to put across?

 

[SpineyNorman]

There isn't one. He probably doesn't even believe this shit and even if he does that's incidental, it's a pretty obvious though so far relatively successful troll.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I know cos I've done this shit myself on rev left.

Obviously with far more style, wit and charm and without pretending to be a racist, sorry non racist right wing UKIP nationalist lol

 

[JimW]

Champion of free speech but anyone who disagrees with me must be a bigot. Fascist cry-arses.

 

[SpineyNorman]

You're violating his safe space you left wing fascist

 

[SpineyNorman]

Right and left identity politickers are just mirror images of one another. Neither can handle dissenting views or debate.

Real right wingers that I meet in person (as opposed to tedious unoriginal trolls like the one on this thread) don't know what to do if you argue the points and do so from a proper pro wc position. That's why they go off like this.

 

[Rsf]

I think he should stay. He hasn't been overtly antagonistic, and how else can we learn how these arseholes think?

Oh I’ll be back, now and again. It’s just that I won’t be debating with morons anymore. You’re the minority on this site, you haven’t exactly been friendly or polite but most people here clearly aren’t even interested in learning what others think and are even less interested in why, as I said they are either too bigoted or intellectually incapable of the effort required to see things from another’s point of view. That alone marks you as a little different to most of the posters.

 

[RD2003]

Oh I’ll be back, now and again. It’s just that I won’t be debating with morons anymore. You’re the minority on this site, you haven’t exactly been friendly or polite but most people here clearly aren’t even interested in learning what others think and are even less interested in why, as I said they are either too bigoted or intellectually incapable of the effort required to see things from another’s point of view. That alone marks you as a little different to most of the posters.

Well for one thing I'm still waiting for you to answer my question from days ago when you said that the rise of right-wing populism is unstoppable, and I asked you where you thought it was all leading.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.

Oh I’ll be back, now and again. It’s just that I won’t be debating with morons anymore. You’re the minority on this site, you haven’t exactly been friendly or polite but most people here clearly aren’t even interested in learning what others think and are even less interested in why, as I said they are either too bigoted or intellectually incapable of the effort required to see things from another’s point of view. That alone marks you as a little different to most of the posters.

You are not like those others, you are special.

/creepy

 

[Toast Rider]

Thanks very much for posting that. The Luke Nash Jones video is exactly the sort of thing I had feared, the real far right mingling with a wider nationalist/patriotic movement. Obviously as a member of UKIP Luke has to be careful with the company he keeps as he would be slung out of UKIP for sharing a stage with actual racists. But I think many people are just ignoring these warnings about actual BNP type racists now because they have heard so many people unjustly smeared as racist in the past that they no longer believe any of it. I read that the violent and fascist far left had been smearing and threatening Sarah Champion now to the point where she needs police protection from these thugs.

I believe Tommy’s appeal has been heard by the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales and two of his associates so perhaps he will be released from prison soon? Any predictions how that will go? My own is that he is guilty of contempt but tommy is treated by the criminal justice system far harsher than anyone else (nobody else gets locked up for lending a family member money for a deposit) and a very senior judge will say he was treated unfairly harshly and free him.

I have no idea if there is any merit at all in these claims that death by dangerous driving was actually a terrorist attack but when so many people in power have covered up grooming gangs just the past and are still clearly trying to silence those like Sarah Champion speaking about them its no wonder trust has broken down so badly. David Kurten was speaking to RT about it recently. I agree with pretty much everything he said:


One of the large YouTubers that joined UKIP (Sargon of Akkad) published a video this weekend called ‘Western Sharia Police’ that has had over 200,000 views already with a like to dislike ratio of over 100 to 1.


It seems to me that lots of people no longer trust the U.K. police to apply the same law equally to everyone with total unbiased impartiality. In these conditions many people will suspect conspiracy even if there is no evidence of one. I think political correctness, censorship and the criminalisation of speech is a large part of how we got here. It’s a truly depressing state of affairs. I also believe we are about 9 years into a forth turning cycle of history when trust in institutions is at its lowest.

Western Sharia Police?

From the guy that sent a rape threat to a female MP who had survived sexual assault? From the guy who emailed a university "ban social justice courses" (that's ALL he wrote). From the guy who was, and possibly still is, friends with a person who thinks child abuse is ok and advocates the murder of journalists. From the guy who bandies around the term 'regressive left' but, when called out, cannot actually explain what that means? From the guy who thinks a community of video gamers bullying a woman on the basis of lies is acceptable. From the guy who thinks black people are ok to call the N word. From the guy who continually smears feminism without any idea what it means, what it does, and without himself doing anything to campaign positively on any topic ever?

Are you fucking serious?

 

[Ax^]

Oh I’ll be back, now and again. It’s just that I won’t be debating with morons anymore. You’re the minority on this site, you haven’t exactly been friendly or polite but most people here clearly aren’t even interested in learning what others think and are even less interested in why, as I said they are either too bigoted or intellectually incapable of the effort required to see things from another’s point of view. That alone marks you as a little different to most of the posters.

*gets coat*

 

[Rsf]

Well for one thing I'm still waiting for you to answer my question from days ago when you said that the rise of right-wing populism is unstoppable, and I asked you where you thought it was all leading.

The Forth Turning is the name of a book that expanded upon an earlier book about generational theory. It was written by two American historians, was popularised amongst the US political elite by Al Gore, but is widely believed on both the right and left in America.

It’s the idea that while history never exactly repeats its self the general moods do repeat themselves, typically in four districts eras each lasting a generation with an entire cycle being roughly the length of a human life.

The authors of the theory said the last fourth turning was from the Great Depression to the end of WWII after which a new political consensus and a new high arose.

Those who subscribe to this theory would say that the financial crisis was the start of the fourth turning of the current cycle, they might say that the 2010’s feels like the 1930’s and the Blair era felt like the 1920’s boom era if that makes sense? It’s not a prediction that any specific event in the past will happen again.

They believe when a generation grows up they are affected by the conditions they grow up in and this gives different generations different life perspectives and lasting personality traits, so that when each generation enters middle age and is in control each will shape society differently. The authors of the fourth turning predicted baby boomers selfish individualism would make life difficult for the young and the millennials in middle age would be the next great generation and drag the west out of its self made crisis.

So to answer your questions:

The populist right are unstoppable because of the inflexiblity of the boomer generation, they will not compromise or have much pragmatism at all. Therefore the things that are driving populism will continue and Brexit is at risk of turning into a complete shit show for the same reason.

Almost Nothing good is likely to come from right wing populism in and of itself but it will force needed change.

After a crisis a new generation comes along, sorts it out with a new consensus, the consensus stands firm for two generations then in the third it unravels and goes into a crisis. Thatcher major and Blair are seen as the third turning, the unraveling of the post war welfare state consensus.