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Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

There was a poll a couple of years ago, that claimed 48% would vote for a nationalist party that eschewed violence, was shocked at that one.
 
ddraig said:
Has TR ever ever campaigned against white paedos ever?
He doesn't care about the victims, just himself, image, ego and bank balance
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Worse than that - back in his EDL days he actually defended an EDL member who was caught with child porn on his computer.

I'm away at the moment so can't find the links, but if you google it you'll find a host of EDL/BNP/NA types have been sent down for this sort of thing. Not a peep out of TR though.
 
The39thStep said:
You are confusing multiculturalism and multiracialism. Edie's right. Top down multiculturalism doesnt encourage integration , it encourages seperation or side by side living. Many of the funding streams under Labour for communities were race based not community based.When people complained they were labelled racist. Even Trevor Philips who was a key proponent of top down multiculturalism acknowledges that not onlydid it fail but has created divisions.
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So when a right wing person says multiculturalism has failed - what they are actually saying is that multiracialism has failed? Have to be honest, I've not heard of the latter term before.
 
Thinking about it a wee bit more, I can't really accept this particular definition of it. It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong? It would mean that the right wing bigots who have sneered at multiculturalism since at least apartheid times are somehow right?

Confused.:confused:
 
But the UK has always been a multi-cultural place. I mean, the English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish nations all have equal standing in this proud Union.:thumbs:
 
krtek a houby said:
Thinking about it a wee bit more, I can't really accept this particular definition of it. It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong? It would mean that the right wing bigots who have sneered at multiculturalism since at least apartheid times are somehow right?

Confused.:confused:
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Sorry for just barging in without an introduction. I’ve been following this thread since Tommy’s arrest and his appeal (which I think will be partly successful). As for which side of the debate is ‘right’ I suspect it’s neither:

“It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong?” - I think it’s only partly wrong.

"It would mean that the right wing bigots who have sneered at multiculturalism since at least apartheid times are somehow right?“ - Or it could mean they are partly right about something’s. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. But are you sure it’s fair to categorise the right as mere “bigots”? Isn’t a bigot someone who doesn’t accept other people having different views and opinions to themselves, is this intolerance limited to the right.

In my experience the left are sometimes correct and sometimes wrong, and the right are sometimes correct and sometimes wrong? Isn’t this exactly what should be expected?
 
Surely focusing on immigrant cultures is unduly restrictive? In respect of the UK the primary question is the extent to which the constituent nations are part of a plural culture. That, I think, is something that is disappearing, and it has nothing to do with lack of integration of immigrants.
 
krtek a houby said:
Thinking about it a wee bit more, I can't really accept this particular definition of it. It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong? It would mean that the right wing bigots who have sneered at multiculturalism since at least apartheid times are somehow right?

Confused.:confused:
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Have you read any of the links on here that are left wing critiques of multi-culturalism? Did you read the Kenan Malik piece?
 
Rsf said:
Sorry for just barging in without an introduction. I’ve been following this thread since Tommy’s arrest and his appeal (which I think will be partly successful). As for which side of the debate is ‘right’ I suspect it’s neither:

“It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong?” - I think it’s only partly wrong.

"It would mean that the right wing bigots who have sneered at multiculturalism since at least apartheid times are somehow right?“ - Or it could mean they are partly right about something’s. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. But are you sure it’s fair to categorise the right as mere “bigots”? Isn’t a bigot someone who doesn’t accept other people having different views and opinions to themselves, is this intolerance limited to the right.

In my experience the left are sometimes correct and sometimes wrong, and the right are sometimes correct and sometimes wrong? Isn’t this exactly what should be expected?
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Tommy Robinson will never be right, not even once a day. He's doing time, mind. Which I'm cool with.

ETA: By "right" I mean "correct", he's clearly a bigot.
 
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Edie said:
The way TR uses the free speech line is really very clever. Look at this interview with Shazia Hobbs. Here’s a woman who is concerned about forced marriage, FGM and the abuse of Muslim children. She was accused by Sadiq Khan of hate speech when raising the issue. The point TR makes is that if you raise concerns about ‘cultural practices’ like FGM, forced marriage, honour killings then you are silenced by the left, by the establishment, by being called a racist.

This of course completely ignore the fact that many in Muslim communities are opposed to, and organise against, those practices. But TR doesn’t care, he can use ‘free speech’ to mean free to be racist and present it as being on the side of justice.
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I would love to see what the left’s response to what this lady is saying actually is. I believe they will continue to refuse to address her concerns and double down on the attempts to silence her. This will leave the likes of Tommy Robinson as the only people helping her and continue to strengthen the likes of Tommy Robinson. I remember the count dankula trial where a comedian was prosecuted under a UK wide law brought in by the last labour government which criminalised jokes online if someone was grossly offended by them. The case went on and on and gathered more and more publicity creating a sense of outrage against the law. The leftist PC Scottish establishment doubled down and Tommy Robinson got involved towards the end of the case and his support seemed to be welcomed (probably because very few others supported dankula). In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.
 
Rsf said:
I would love to see what the left’s response to what this lady is saying actually is. I believe they will continue to refuse to address her concerns and double down on the attempts to silence her. This will leave the likes of Tommy Robinson as the only people helping her and continue to strengthen the likes of Tommy Robinson. I remember the count dankula trial where a comedian was prosecuted under a UK wide law brought in by the last labour government which criminalised jokes online if someone was grossly offended by them. The case went on and on and gathered more and more publicity creating a sense of outrage against the law. The leftist PC Scottish establishment doubled down and Tommy Robinson got involved towards the end of the case and his support seemed to be welcomed (probably because very few others supported dankula). In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.
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I thought you were done with this site beavis?

Look, the left isn't part of the life of the people behind the TR stuff in any way except as a lecturing teacher or careerist two faced wanker. The left as left simply doesn't exist apart from as something to kick against - historical mis-identification and so on aside. So demanding that 'the left' wave a magic wand and and somehow sort all of this out is nonsense - and you know it. And your patent dishonesty in this is part of why this gap between w/c people and the left has developed - people like you in their ear all the time saying yes, the left is your enemy, they have never done and never will do anything for you - despite the (idealised) conditions that the EDL and similar responses are an inchoate demand to return to - being substantially due to the actions of the historic left. You are poisoning the ground for any hopeful or useful future movement and you damn well know it.
 
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Rsf said:
I would love to see what the left’s response to what this lady is saying actually is. I believe they will continue to refuse to address her concerns and double down on the attempts to silence her. This will leave the likes of Tommy Robinson as the only people helping her and continue to strengthen the likes of Tommy Robinson. I remember the count dankula trial where a comedian was prosecuted under a UK wide law brought in by the last labour government which criminalised jokes online if someone was grossly offended by them. The case went on and on and gathered more and more publicity creating a sense of outrage against the law. The leftist PC Scottish establishment doubled down and Tommy Robinson got involved towards the end of the case and his support seemed to be welcomed (probably because very few others supported dankula). In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.
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I think you're disingenuous. Dankula (twat with a twat's name) deliberately posted a video that he claimed was private setting to be outrageous. "Gas the jews" is not a neutral statement, and he didn't say it once or twice. He said it over and over and over. Just because he's saying it to a dog is irrelevant. That someone thinks such a statement is trivial enough to be guffaw material because "dank memez" shows what kind of a scumbag he is. That he's happy to buddy up with Tommy Robinson, Paul Joseph Mapwanker, Lauren Southern, the repugnant racist Stefan Molyneux and of course Swindon's finest intellectual troll (a man who doesn't take his own 'ideas' seriously') is telling. He wasn't a victim of leftist anti freespeech nazis, he violated a UK wide communications law. I have zero sympathy for him nor cunts like him who think free speech is an excuse to be a massive arsehole.

Dankula was not a communist. He doesn't even understand the word, like the rest of these fuckwits. If people join ukip because of their antics it isn't a failure of free speech, it's because Youtube culture has weaponised ignorance and allowed video game thickos to manufacture outrage for cash. That's the only reason Sargon has any popularity at all: beacuse he jumped on the Gamergate bandwagon to harass and cyberstalk women. These people are cunts and I hope I live long enough to see them all fall into the pit of shit from whence they spawned.

It's also utterly irrelevant to the facts of this case. Robinson broke the terms of his suspended sentence - by doing the exact same thing that he was unequivocally warned by a judge not to do in the first place. He wasn't reporting; calling defendants in an ongoing trial rapists and pedos is not journalism. It's risking a mistrial and it's clearly intended to play to his racist audience base. And of course the people he films are going to react violently - who wouldn't when faced with some thug shoving a camera in their face. (I've no idea if they are guilty, and if they are deal with them appropriately.)
 
Rsf said:
I would love to see what the left’s response to what this lady is saying actually is. I believe they will continue to refuse to address her concerns and double down on the attempts to silence her. This will leave the likes of Tommy Robinson as the only people helping her and continue to strengthen the likes of Tommy Robinson. I remember the count dankula trial where a comedian was prosecuted under a UK wide law brought in by the last labour government which criminalised jokes online if someone was grossly offended by them. The case went on and on and gathered more and more publicity creating a sense of outrage against the law. The leftist PC Scottish establishment doubled down and Tommy Robinson got involved towards the end of the case and his support seemed to be welcomed (probably because very few others supported dankula). In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.
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How is tommeh "helping" that woman, in any way?
 
Toast Rider said:
I think you're disingenuous. Dankula (twat with a twat's name) deliberately posted a video that he claimed was private setting to be outrageous. "Gas the jews" is not a neutral statement, and he didn't say it once or twice. He said it over and over and over. Just because he's saying it to a dog is irrelevant. That someone thinks such a statement is trivial enough to be guffaw material because "dank memez" shows what kind of a scumbag he is. That he's happy to buddy up with Tommy Robinson, Paul Joseph Mapwanker, Lauren Southern, the repugnant racist Stefan Molyneux and of course Swindon's finest intellectual troll (a man who doesn't take his own 'ideas' seriously') is telling. He wasn't a victim of leftist anti freespeech nazis, he violated a UK wide communications law. I have zero sympathy for him nor cunts like him who think free speech is an excuse to be a massive arsehole.

Dankula was not a communist. He doesn't even understand the word, like the rest of these fuckwits. If people join ukip because of their antics it isn't a failure of free speech, it's because Youtube culture has weaponised ignorance and allowed video game thickos to manufacture outrage for cash. That's the only reason Sargon has any popularity at all: beacuse he jumped on the Gamergate bandwagon to harass and cyberstalk women. These people are cunts and I hope I live long enough to see them all fall into the pit of shit from whence they spawned.

It's also utterly irrelevant to the facts of this case. Robinson broke the terms of his suspended sentence - by doing the exact same thing that he was unequivocally warned by a judge not to do in the first place. He wasn't reporting; calling defendants in an ongoing trial rapists and pedos is not journalism. It's risking a mistrial and it's clearly intended to play to his racist audience base. And of course the people he films are going to react violently - who wouldn't when faced with some thug shoving a camera in their face. (I've no idea if they are guilty, and if they are deal with them appropriately.)
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Top rant, 10/10. :thumbs:
 
Rsf said:
In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.
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Anyone know him in Scotland?, if he was a communist, he would surely have made comments, been on demo's,etc?
 
krtek a houby said:
Tommy Robinson will never be right, not even once a day. He's doing time, mind. Which I'm cool with.

ETA: By "right" I mean "correct", he's clearly a bigot.
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I’m afraid on some issues he probably is correct or at least partly correct. In fact it would be pretty difficult to be consistently wrong on everything in exactly the same way as there is no such thing as someone who is always right. Try to see the world as it actually is.

Tommy is despised by the real far right and by the left. By far right I mean the fascist ethno-nationalists, the old BNP types who reject the liberal idea of individual rights and believe in collective or group rights (and thereby believe in collective guilt and collective responsibility) and define the nation by a racial identity. These types have far more in common with the far left than I think they realise though, they are both bigotted (by which I mean intolerant of others having different opinions to themselves) and believe in an extreme form of collectivism. I have heard that the real far right call Tommy a “race traitor” for example as he doesn’t agree with them defining “Britishness” by race. Tommy also said it was wrong of David Cameron to say multi culturalism had failed and that he regarded multi culturalism as a success with the one exception of Islamism which he said was incompatible with western democracy and human rights.

You might find Tommy to be a rather unpleasant character, I find some of the rhetoric pretty unpleasant myself, especially the rhetoric from the EDL which can be particularly nasty, but things are not as straight forward and clear cut as you seem to think.

I guess the main point I’m making though is while people like Shazia Hobbs continue to have their legitimate concerns ignored and while the left continue to try and silence them, and shutdown hustings and such like, people will continue to see this and see Tommy as a sort of martyr to a legitimate cause. As another poster said it has now reached the point where you have Facebook groups comparing him to Mandela. These feelings will continue to grow until all the issues that Tommy has taken up (including free speech and comedians being prosecuted for jokes) are openly acknowledged and fully debated (without harassment and attempts to silence from the far left) and dealt with by the authorities in a manner that is satisfactory to most people. Until then I expect the movement around tommy to continue to grow, it may even reach the stage of having some parliamentary support rather than just street protests.
 
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