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Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

Libertad said:
Win what exactly?
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Win the culture. Win in the way old UKIP won. They started winning 10% plus in general elections so the tories had to give in to their demand for a referendum and starting singing their tune. In a decade the country will be more conservative than it is now if the new far right win. People like Douglas Murray will just seem like normal common sense rather than controversial. The old far right were openly racist, the new far right aren’t racially prejudiced but they are culturally prejudiced and don’t believe all cultures are equal. They are currently winning because the left are in an echo chamber.
 
Beavis22 said:
Win the culture. Win in the way old UKIP won. They started winning 10% plus in general elections so the tories had to give in to their demand for a referendum and starting singing their tune. In a decade the country will be more conservative than it is now if the new far right win. People like Douglas Murray will just seem like normal common sense rather than controversial. The old far right were openly racist, the new far right aren’t racially prejudiced but they are culturally prejudiced and don’t believe all cultures are equal. They are currently winning because the left are in an echo chamber.
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the far right is not conservative, as the alternative name for them, the radical right, indicates. it's like saying hitler was a conservative. mussolini was a conservative. it's utter bollocks.

but people like douglas murray will always appear loons, in some ways the world never changes.
 
Beavis22 said:
Win the culture. Win in the way old UKIP won. They started winning 10% plus in general elections so the tories had to give in to their demand for a referendum and starting singing their tune. In a decade the country will be more conservative than it is now if the new far right win. People like Douglas Murray will just seem like normal common sense rather than controversial. The old far right were openly racist, the new far right aren’t racially prejudiced but they are culturally prejudiced and don’t believe all cultures are equal. They are currently winning because the left are in an echo chamber.
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They hide their racism under culturalism precisely because they know racism in not acceptable - that it is a potent accusation that has harmed them significantly in the past because anti-racism is now the common sense of both society and the states institutions. But your earlier intervention was to say that accusations of racism no longer have any power. The far right seem to think that they do.

Btw this culturalism as hidden racism is not new - it's been part of the original new right (or at least the last major 'new right', that is the french one around de benoist not the neo-liberal one of the late 70s/80s tory and republican right that this culturalist right is vehemently opposed to) since the late 60s.
 
Beavis22 said:
Win the culture. Win in the way old UKIP won. They started winning 10% plus in general elections so the tories had to give in to their demand for a referendum and starting singing their tune. In a decade the country will be more conservative than it is now if the new far right win. People like Douglas Murray will just seem like normal common sense rather than controversial. The old far right were openly racist, the new far right aren’t racially prejudiced but they are culturally prejudiced and don’t believe all cultures are equal. They are currently winning because the left are in an echo chamber.
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Revisionism.
 
butchersapron said:
They hide their racism under culturalism precisely because they know racism in not acceptable - that it is a potent accusation that has harmed them significantly in the past because anti-racism is now the common sense of both society and the states institutions. But your earlier intervention was to say that accusations of racism no longer have any power. The far right seem to think that they do.
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In that case they seem to manage to hide it pretty well from their non white members. My first realisation that the right were now bigger than the left was last year in Edinburgh. There was some right wing demonstration against terrorism and a much smaller counter demonstration. Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white, approached the counter demonstrators, all of whom were white, and the counter demonstrators all started screaming hysterically that the non-white people were racists. It was the most surreal thing I’d ever seen, then I realised that the left had well and turely lost the plot. In my youth I was a committed SSP voter, seeing what the far left have become makes me ashamed of this.
 
Beavis22 said:
In that case they seem to manage to hide it pretty well from their non white members. My first realisation that the right were now bigger than the left was last year in Edinburgh. There was some right wing demonstration against terrorism and a much smaller counter demonstration. Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white, approached the counter demonstrators, all of whom were white, and the counter demonstrators all started screaming hysterically that the non-white people were racists. It was the most surreal thing I’d ever seen, then I realised that the left had well and turely lost the plot. In my youth I was a committed SSP voter, seeing what the far left have become makes me ashamed of this.
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soz the left are smaller than the right? and you base this on one demo in edinburgh?
 
Beavis22 said:
In that case they seem to manage to hide it pretty well from their non white members. My first realisation that the right were now bigger than the left was last year in Edinburgh. There was some right wing demonstration against terrorism and a much smaller counter demonstration. Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white, approached the counter demonstrators, all of whom were white, and the counter demonstrators all started screaming hysterically that the non-white people were racists. It was the most surreal thing I’d ever seen, then I realised that the left had well and turely lost the plot. In my youth I was a committed SSP voter, seeing what the far left have become makes me ashamed of this.
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You think it's impossible for the 'new far right' to hide racism behind culture to a handful of non-central camp followers? Or that, the latter couldn't put up with it for some reason. Tommy Robinson/Stephen Lennon himself *as well as other participants in the original edl and related groups) said that this was exactly what happened.

Ok, you said 'the new far right' has moved on from race to culture. What made this movement necessary? What drove it? And why are the same people who were always very clear on it being all about race still involved? Are they genuinely no longer racist or have they - being aware of the damage the sting of racism can deliver - decided on another way to present themselves in order to attempt to fit in with wider social understandings?
 
Beavis22 said:
Just noticed this now. Since vile abuse is what seems to counts for debate and discussion around here I’m gone. Not posting on this site again.
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Heh. I got distracted and went to go and do something else, but I was going to make a post here along the lines of "if the traditional trajectory holds true, there'll be a bit of back and forth, and then our noble Warrior Of The Right, who has already decided on a moment's acquaintance with Urban exactly how it works, will give up on it with disgust. Anything rather than accept that presumptously bouncing onto a board and telling everyone what they ought to think, on the basis of a few flimsy arguments and lots of handwavery, was ever going to go down well."

Only you've saved me the trouble. Jolly good. Don't let the door, etc.
 
Beavis22 said:
Just noticed this now. Since vile abuse is what seems to counts for debate and discussion around here I’m gone. Not posting on this site again.
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giphy.gif
 
Beavis22 said:
. Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white.
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i totally and utterly believe this far right demo was only attended by people of colour. that really would be a major shift in the usual demographic they attract and utterly upset the apple cart of anti-racism/fascism.
thanks for pointing this out - i will now look at all these pictures in a different light
1*rhRKcWYY-gc6uGc4OKKTmQ.jpeg

infidelswa.jpg

TommyRobinsonDemo9-6-18-28-WEB.jpg


yep - the far right - its total fucking rainbow.
 
Pickman's model said:
your bias is showing. as is your ignorance. slum clearances continued into the 1980s.
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They were definitely knocking down large areas of back-to-backs in Leeds in the early 80s, possibly local to Kaka Tim (Wortley and Burley). I know of a few streets demolished since I moved there in 1989, though replaced with local authority housing or left vacant. More recent than you’d think.
 
my parents house was trashed about 82 when the outside bogs, tin baths and coal houses fell out of favour

Now I live in Peckham, i see back to back povery chic is all the rage amongst the bright young things

but yes, outside London, there were still classic slums kicking about. Still there, but have donned new clothes
 
The ‘police were worried about racism’ thing is such a crock of shit. Plod not exactly known for their PC attitude (no deliberate pun there!) - more a case of them pointing the finger elsewhere rather than accept that they let people down because they didn’t think they were worth it, a mix of contempt for very marginalised children and not wanting to deal with troubled/difficult and potential unreliable victims. They didn’t think these girls mattered, but easier to pretend their hands were tied by political correctness than own up to this.

Surely the fash know this too and are just being disingenuous, or are they really that stupid/trusting of the police narrative?
 
Beavis22 said:
In that case they seem to manage to hide it pretty well from their non white members. My first realisation that the right were now bigger than the left was last year in Edinburgh. There was some right wing demonstration against terrorism and a much smaller counter demonstration. Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white, approached the counter demonstrators, all of whom were white, and the counter demonstrators all started screaming hysterically that the non-white people were racists. It was the most surreal thing I’d ever seen, then I realised that the left had well and turely lost the plot. In my youth I was a committed SSP voter, seeing what the far left have become makes me ashamed of this.
Click to expand...

32512486.jpg
 
Dogsauce said:
The ‘police were worried about racism’ thing is such a crock of shit. Plod not exactly known for their PC attitude (no deliberate pun there!) - more a case of them pointing the finger elsewhere rather than accept that they let people down because they didn’t think they were worth it, a mix of contempt for very marginalised children and not wanting to deal with troubled/difficult and potential unreliable victims. They didn’t think these girls mattered, but easier to pretend their hands were tied by political correctness than own up to this.

Surely the fash know this too and are just being disingenuous, or are they really that stupid/trusting of the police narrative?
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Sorry but the 'worried about racism' for both council and police services particularly at the elected member and PCC level wasnt a crock of shit.Its not all the story and you are right about the other factors. As for the Police's PC attitude have a look at just about any Police forces social media.
 
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