Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

[Magnus McGinty]

i work in a public facing role, but it's not community focussed, there's a definite difference. community focussed to me in the case you're talking about suggests more that the community are the group who are driving what the gym does, that would make it more of a community gym than an activist project.

Any idea what “a bit of a mix” means?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I mean community focussed in the sense of open to the community. Rather than insular scene stuff.

 

[Pickman's model]

Any idea what “a bit of a mix” means?

i think he means there's times when activists will be using it and times when the user group will be a bit broader, but that's just a guess and for the actual definitive meaning you'd have to ask Red Sky

 

[Red Sky]

Any idea what “a bit of a mix” means?

That some of the groups in the "Red Gyms" thing (which isn't really anything but a catchphrase) are trying to be community gyms. Some aren't or don't have the capacity to be if they wanted to.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

That some of the groups in the "Red Gyms" thing (which isn't really anything but a catchphrase) are trying to be community gyms. Some aren't or don't have the capacity to be if they wanted to.

But it was in response to me asking who trained at your gym. Never mind.

 

[CosmikRoger]

This thread was more fun to read when YL was getting a hiding from an OAP.

 

[Pickman's model]

This thread was more fun to read when YL was getting a hiding from an OAP.

For all we know he still is

 

[existentialist]

For all we know he still is

Now, there's a happy thought

 

[Pickman's model]

Now, there's a happy thought

Imagine syl's face being stamped on by a sturdy pensioner for 19 weeks

 

[jimmer]

Although it’s mad that a turnout of 1,000 is seen as pathetic nowadays, when I balked at that turnout in Newcastle in 2013 due to the bounce from Lee Rigby. It only takes some more shit from Islamist cunts for numbers to swell again further.

This is a good point. The protest SYL did in Manchester after the arena attack (as UK Against Hate) was double the size of the one after Lee Rigby (as the EDL). Although both of those were eclipsed by the Football Lads Alliance (FLA), which I think shows that Islamist terror attacks will provoke reactionary anti-Muslim street protests, but SYL will not always be in control of them. The FLA kept it's distance from SYL at the start, John Meighan was initially very keen to not be tarnished by SYL's reputation. SYL was nowhere near the first FLA demo, covered the second for Rebel Media but kept on the fringes, then on the third after the FLA/DFLA split Meighan was desperate to get his photo taken alongside SYL who was mobbed and treated as a hero at both.

 

[Kaka Tim]

This is a good point. The protest SYL did in Manchester after the arena attack (as UK Against Hate) was double the size of the one after Lee Rigby (as the EDL). Although both of those were eclipsed by the Football Lads Alliance (FLA), which I think shows that Islamist terror attacks will provoke reactionary anti-Muslim street protests, but SYL will not always be in control of them. The FLA kept it's distance from SYL at the start, John Meighan was initially very keen to not be tarnished by SYL's reputation. SYL was nowhere near the first FLA demo, covered the second for Rebel Media but kept on the fringes, then on the third after the FLA/DFLA split Meighan was desperate to get his photo taken alongside SYL who was mobbed and treated as a hero at both.

My feeling is that SYL's bubble has burst. Hes is back to having a following of the usal hardcore of boneheads - at one stage he was reaching well beyond that. It may well be that the constant counter campaign has had an effect - especially in highlighting his recent behavior - the delusional rants, the questions over money and the violence. So maybe - like hopkins - he is now too toxic anyone outside the far right hardcroe to be assocaited with.
I thinks its more likely that he fades into insignificance (like britain first) and someone else will bob up the far right u-bend.

 

[Pickman's model]

My feeling is that SYL's bubble has burst. Hes is back to having a following of the usal hardcore of boneheads - at one stage he was reaching well beyond that. It may well be that the constant counter campaign has had an effect - especially in highlighting his recent behavior - the delusional rants, the questions over money and the violence. So maybe - like hopkins - he is now too toxic anyone outside the far right hardcroe to be assocaited with.
I thinks its more likely that he fades into insignificance (like britain first) and someone else will bob up the far right u-bend.

might also be that so much of it is self-inflicted prison - it is hard for all but the most deluded to see how he's been victimised when the original verdict was set aside and a new, highly scrutinised, trial took place. and frankly the tearful plea to donald trump and the republican party for political asylum was just pitiful and abject.

 

[Kaka Tim]

might also be that so much of it is self-inflicted prison - it is hard for all but the most deluded to see how he's been victimised when the original verdict was set aside and a new, highly scrutinised, trial took place. and frankly the tearful plea to donald trump and the republican party for political asylum was just pitiful and abject.

yeah - the hysterical plea for asylum was a rather glorious bit of self humiliation . Anyone who wasn't laughing would have been "don't make eye contact ... keep walking" .

 

[8ball]

So maybe - like hopkins - he is now too toxic anyone outside the far right hardcroe to be assocaited with.

I wonder with Hopkins whether having part of her brain removed in 2016 contributed much to her career trajectory.
No such excuses for YL.

 

[LDC]

I mean community focussed in the sense of open to the community. Rather than insular scene stuff.

Wot community?

I'm all for being critical of scene stuff masquerading as a more expansive politics, but this banging your head against the variety of 'Red Gyms' seems a bit weird tbh. Anyway, here's a gym in Salford doing its thing next month with boxing, BBQ, music, and some arts and crafts.

 

[The39thStep]

This is a good point. The protest SYL did in Manchester after the arena attack (as UK Against Hate) was double the size of the one after Lee Rigby (as the EDL). Although both of those were eclipsed by the Football Lads Alliance (FLA), which I think shows that Islamist terror attacks will provoke reactionary anti-Muslim street protests, but SYL will not always be in control of them. The FLA kept it's distance from SYL at the start, John Meighan was initially very keen to not be tarnished by SYL's reputation. SYL was nowhere near the first FLA demo, covered the second for Rebel Media but kept on the fringes, then on the third after the FLA/DFLA split Meighan was desperate to get his photo taken alongside SYL who was mobbed and treated as a hero at both.

I don’t think the first FLA March against terrorism was reactionary . Quite a mixed crowd some of which are now-supporting FLAF, some right wing elements but mainly patriotic . Great pity that the left didn’t march against Islamacist terror attacks imo.

 

[jimmer]

My feeling is that SYL's bubble has burst. Hes is back to having a following of the usal hardcore of boneheads - at one stage he was reaching well beyond that. It may well be that the constant counter campaign has had an effect - especially in highlighting his recent behavior - the delusional rants, the questions over money and the violence. So maybe - like hopkins - he is now too toxic anyone outside the far right hardcroe to be assocaited with.
I thinks its more likely that he fades into insignificance (like britain first) and someone else will bob up the far right u-bend.

Agreed, I'm starting to think we may end up looking back and longing for the hegemonic figure on the far-right to be a coke-addled vlogger obsessed with building their own celebrity who would rather fleece their own followers to support their own habit than create a political movement which could be a serious threat. The next person could be worse.

I don’t think the first FLA March against terrorism was reactionary . Quite a mixed crowd some of which are now-supporting FLAF, some right wing elements but mainly patriotic . Great pity that the left didn’t march against Islamacist terror attacks imo.

Patriotic is reactionary, 'against all extremism' means anti-communist. I didn't say it was far-right, but it was definitely reactionary.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Patriotic is reactionary...

Not sure I agree with this and most of the left don’t either given they celebrate the patriotism of the underdog.
In a UK context there’s plenty who see national identity as part of who they are who aren’t necessarily bigots. The left alienates itself by dismissing all those people (especially when alongside championing ‘correct’ patriotism’).

 

[Serge Forward]

There is no 'correct' patriotism.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

There is no 'correct' patriotism.

So a prole who gets off on their national side is just a cunt? Out of touch much?

 

[Proper Tidy]

So a prole who gets off on their national side is just a cunt? Out of touch much?

I support my national team but tbh don't think that can be conflated with patriotism in any sort of political sense. I don't think left should be so precious about this stuff, and def not about stuff like supporting england - social change makes the social conditions not the other way around - but calling a political demonstration around the english or british flag or centred on patriotism reactionary is fair game really isn't it

 

[Pickman's model]

Not sure I agree with this and most of the left don’t either given they celebrate the patriotism of the underdog.
In a UK context there’s plenty who see national identity as part of who they are who aren’t necessarily bigots. The left alienates itself by dismissing all those people (especially when alongside championing ‘correct’ patriotism’).

Does national identity equal patriotism? I'm not so sure

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I support my national team but tbh don't think that can be conflated with patriotism in any sort of political sense. I don't think left should be so precious about this stuff, and def not about stuff like supporting england - social change makes the social conditions not the other way around - but calling a political demonstration around the english or british flag or centred on patriotism reactionary is fair game really isn't it

The left are definitely touchy about it where as the far right embrace it. It’s an Achilles heel imho.

 

[Treacle Toes]

So a prole who gets off on their national side is just a cunt? Out of touch much?

What does 'national side' or 'national identity' actually mean to you?

...most of the left don’t either given they celebrate the patriotism of the underdog.

Eh? really? The only people I have ever heard refer to themselves as 'patriots' or celebrate 'patriotism' are far from being the lovelies of the 'left'. 'Patriotism of the underdog' means a completely different thing a lot of the time..you are doing this weird blanket thing of using such terms as meaning 'usually white' and 'working class' again.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

What does 'national side' or 'national identity' actually mean to you?



Eh? really? The only people I have ever heard refer to themselves as 'patriots' or celebrate 'patriotism' are far from being the lovelies of the 'left'. 'Patriotism of the underdog' means a completely different thing a lot of the time..you are doing this weird blanket thing of using such terms as meaning 'usually white' and 'working class' again.

I’m not. That’s simply how you interpret me as that’s how you think.
Maybe ask Irish people watching the Irish cricket team if national side means nothing to them. Or English Football fans or Welsh rugby fans, or any other examples you might think about instead of making shit up.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I’m not. That’s simply how you interpret me as that’s how you think.

...oh give over...using your 'definition' Thomas Mair would be celebrated by the left.

I don't think this shit, you actually post it.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

...oh give over...using your 'definition' Thomas Mair would be celebrated by the left.

I don't think this shit, you actually post it.

The only person bringing race into this is you as fucking usual. I really can’t be arsed with your bullshit identity politics. So piss off, eh?

 

[Treacle Toes]

The only person bringing race into this is you as fucking usual. I really can’t be arsed with your bullshit identity politics. So piss of, eh?

As usual, you actually don't understand the implications of what you post do you?

Your own identity politics are laid bare, repeatedly, and have subtexts that you clearly haven't ever thought about, understand, or are too 'prole' and 'patriotic' to admit. Have a word.

I've never done anything you've suggested so won't start now. Thanks though.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I can’t make a single Point without you telling me what I really mean is the white working class (ergo, I’m a racist really).
I’m talking about how the left alienates itself from people. And then you prove my point. By telling me what I really mean and that I’m a racist but I just can’t see it?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Just Fuck off.