I didn't quote you, therefore I didn't screenshot your twitter, c'mon this aint rocket science.
The Tuts make dubious allegations after Brixton Windmill gig
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I didn't quote you, therefore I didn't screenshot your twitter, c'mon this aint rocket science.
Yes, that's exactly what I did
The subject of drinks prices was brought up from that blog post. I'd say it's highly relevant when the incident seemed to stem from someone bringing in their own vodka, whilst a friend of theirs declares that they feel "sick" for spending the huge sum of £2.40 at the bar.
But you misinterpreted it. She is sick, as I am, for giving a venue money following the actions that we witnessed. Both me and Simona have given that bar, on average, around £20 at least per visit to the Windmill on the bar and it is horrible to know that the money hasn't gone to a good cause but to a not only sexist and racist but from his attempt to punch me just all round violent thug.
I was quoted by a different member. I retract my comments. I still find it strange that Simona's personal details matter whereas mine do not when they are being quoted as if her comments and opinions have less credibility.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
That's understandable, but also, if you had seen/heard this on Twitter yourself, without actually being there, knowing that you've had plenty of good trouble-free nights there yourself, what would your opinion of the whole story be?
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
Having read through everything, I can't see any FIRST HAND account of the P word being used. Unless I've overlooked something, it's all "I heard that it was used, but didn't hear it myself".
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
The racism is troubling if it's true. And the violence of course.
I thought that era was over.
I thought that era was over.
To be honest, the fact that Nadia is a woman and was assaulted seems to be dismissed as 'crazy woman gets put in her place' followed by agreeing how quite right it is and that Seamus is not a thug- which is not open minded.
Screenshots of my twitter posted on this thread seem to be deliberately motivated at discrediting myself personally when I am simply recounting what I saw so that people specifically in the indiepop community who frequently book the venue and bands who play at the venue are aware. It was not intended for your gossip session or as a contribution to this forum.
BEEN MASSIVELY EDITED!
Well of course I cannot comment. I understand your perspective but so much testimony has now been given and it seems a bit off to simply declare that these claims are "dubious". In my own blog I have tried to be as clear and as objective as possible I have been critical of both sides and I would argue that the interpretation can be seen as having a degree of validity.
Shows have already been cancelled. This is a serious allegation. However, I admit that at this point that is all it is, officially, and you can't be expected to choose sides. I have found this forum is finding itself overly in favour of the venue, perhaps because of the sexism that has been argued here and on twitter and perhaps because it is happening in their backyard at somewhere they truly love. As I did.
I also find it strange that whilst everyone is fine to have-a-go at Nadia and comment on those events when it comes to Seamus randomly attempting to attack me unprovoked apart from me telling him I'm not giving him anymore money it has simply been glazed over. Partially I feel that this reaction is that if you were to respond to it the whole defense of the venue has to go out of the window.
Me and Tim the booker, who is a nice bloke who I have nothing against, has said he will pass my concerns on to Seamus with a full response to follow which I will publish here, twitter and on my blog if it is significant. I sincerely hope that a conclusion can be reached but I am not banking on it.
simsimsim said:
I am sorry but that has not been the case. Can you see how you saying stuff like this makes you seem malicious, defensive and unreliable?
No doubt something happened and it sounds sad/disappointing. I hope it gets sorted out but there are channels to go through. Witch hunt is not the best solution.
wayward bob
i ate all your bees
you are seeing something which isn't there.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
I haven't condoned his behaviour, so I'm not sure what perspective of mine you're understanding. I think his behaviour was bang out of order
I said perhaps. I didn't dispense judgement.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
I think you are. These forums are not in the slightest bit sexist
I didn't say that. I said that the issue has been easily dismissed as rumour.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
indiepop scene not cliquey? christ, you must be in a different scene to the one i've observed over the years. and it's really really heavily white and male dominated, too.
a bigoted woman
Member
i wasn't there, but a quick analysis:
- smuggling in drinks: bad (think the promoter/bands gets most of the door money) although good for the smuggler if not caught
- throwing out people for smuggling in drinks: okay - if force is justified
- unjustifiable force: assault
- assault: very bad
- racist language: REALLY bad
- feeling sick for contributing £2.40 to landlord you dislike: sad, but I'm sure the feeling will pass.
- pasting people's twitter with face and everything: slightly weird. takes some effort to do.
so it seems many people involved had been an asshole.
a different question: had it been a big man who was in the same situation (a big man with long hair), would this then have been okay? (my feeling is no)
- smuggling in drinks: bad (think the promoter/bands gets most of the door money) although good for the smuggler if not caught
- throwing out people for smuggling in drinks: okay - if force is justified
- unjustifiable force: assault
- assault: very bad
- racist language: REALLY bad
- feeling sick for contributing £2.40 to landlord you dislike: sad, but I'm sure the feeling will pass.
- pasting people's twitter with face and everything: slightly weird. takes some effort to do.
so it seems many people involved had been an asshole.
a different question: had it been a big man who was in the same situation (a big man with long hair), would this then have been okay? (my feeling is no)
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
People on this forum kind of have a long association with the Windmill as many of us used to go as a group to events there.
As well as going there as a (female) punter I have played there in bands many, many times over more than a decade. I have always had a warm welcome from the landlord and all the staff, never experienced any problems of this nature or heard of anyone having any (and I know a lot of people on the South London music scene).
This is not to say that the incident as reported didn't happen, but I certainly wouldn't want to rush to judgement.
As well as going there as a (female) punter I have played there in bands many, many times over more than a decade. I have always had a warm welcome from the landlord and all the staff, never experienced any problems of this nature or heard of anyone having any (and I know a lot of people on the South London music scene).
This is not to say that the incident as reported didn't happen, but I certainly wouldn't want to rush to judgement.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Initially, by some people, until they got the full story from other people that were there, and that information only arrived a while ago. Before that, it was all just twitter comments
Kanda
Diving wanker
They sound like fun...
snowy_again
Slush
I don't think anyone has make it gender specific, but said that if you bring booze in, and get caught, that might upset the landlord who will think that you're just exploiting his venue whilst putting on a show there. My own experience of Seamus has always been fine, (I've played there >20 times) and I'm shocked, but can't make a decision until both side of the story are explained. That seems fair and equitable doesn't it?
If his reaction was physical and disproportionate to the situation then pursue it as has been pointed out by a number of people.
If you've got a brain, you'll drink your booze outside of the little wall bit and get on with it. Then play your show to your mates and you can all go home happy.
I'm not ruling it out. The posts about Simona and drinks distorted the issue and belittled her opinions when her opinion on the price of drinks has nothing to do with the reports and should have been ignored. The fact that her face and name was used and mine wasn't is also a bit strange. The comment about Nadia being a bitch, or similar, also justified Seamus's actions on the ground that he "put the woman in her place".
I favour the second view personally, that you don't like the idea that this happened in "your backyard" and a place you have a connection with. But I think this thread does have some quite unpleasant elements.
Anyway, this discussion ignores the true issue of what happened. I am willing to answer any questions anyone has about WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED and no longer feel the need to engage in these trivialities. I am sorry that they have gone this far really.
I look forward to what the Windmill has to say and I am sure they will produce a statement. I hope that we can come to an agreement about what did happen that will leave all parties happy.
It's how I interpreted your interpretation which is completely rational.
I don't really want to go into this further because I am tired of this thread. I have privatised my twitter again too.
Just to emphasise, I am never going to step foot into The Windmill again because of what I personally witnessed. I feel unsafe there. I am aware that this was only the actions of one man and everyone has their off days and the rest of the staff had nothing to do with this but as a still-teenage young woman I do not wish to attend or give money to a venue where I have witnessed violence, especially against women, or racism.
You may have your own opinion, I respect this and I hope that you are able to continue to attend The Windmill in future (should you choose to do so) without any such problems.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
I would like to point out that I don't drink in the pub so have no agenda
Did I really do this ? Or did I say that I'd reserve judgement until I hear a first hand account from my friend who was there. I wish I'd joined her there now like I was supposed to.
And fwiw I haven't always seen eye to eye with Saemus, so I wouldn't just blindly defend him.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
i have a question for those that know the singer of this band. given your knowledge of her, the fact she's apparantly quite bolshie etc. would she have left the venue of her own accord at any point once asked to leave by the landlord?
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
As I said in a previous post, I can't see any FIRST HAND account of racist language being used. Is there anyone who actually heard it, rather than just heard that someone else heard it?
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
and all middle class kids from the burbs too...
Whilst I do not know her personally there were many friends of her and some who I assume may have been family, many of which were responsible people who could only be seen as middle aged. If Seamus had walked away, or Nadia for that matter, and both parties had kept their distance following them being separated by myself and others I am sure she would have been convinced to leave only partially harmed from the initial incident.
The language happened when Seamus was talking to police it was reported by members of the band and their friends. SilentPunk's (JenCMW) tumblr post touched on it and I'm sure she is in a better position than me to discuss this.
The police heard it apparently, and refused to do anything about it, which I find a bit hard to believe.
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