The Trump presidency

[bimble]

Some statistics from a recent survey suggesting that there really is nothing Trump could do that would make those who voted for him lose faith.

• 80 percent of Trump voters think it’s a bigger problem that news organizations produce false stories, while only 3 percent of them think it’s a bigger problem that the Trump administration makes false claims. (Among Republicans overall, this is 69-14)
• 84 percent of Trump voters think he’s keeping most of his major campaign promises, while only 4 percent think he isn’t, and 89 percent of them think he’s honest and trustworthy.

ttps://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/04/27/trumps-lies-are-working-brilliantly-this-new-poll-proves-it/?utm_term=.6735b23d5606

It really does seem that they will back him up every time he calls something he doesn't like Fake News, and believe him even when it must be an effort to do so.

 

[bimble]

On the other hand, the most extreme wingnuts in the vanguard do seem to be giving up on him.

 

[teqniq]

Captive of his deranged mind more like.

 

[J Ed]

On the other hand, the most extreme wingnuts in the vanguard do seem to be giving up on him.
View attachment 105532

Like the Genie in Aladdin under the spell of Jaffar

 

[bimble]

The article is a bit special even for them. Starts with the premise that since they fooled the world with 9/11 they have had no shame.

 

[butchersapron]

This is PCR who predicted a nuclear strike on iran was def 100% just about to happen in 2006. Counter-punch have given this man space.

 

[CRI]

I hardly think so because because what Noxion says happens to be true, certainly wrt Obama and the banks, And seeing as how you've got J Ed on ignore I'll just repost this:

View attachment 105524

The point being missed is that those on the Left in America are failing to engage with African Americans and other Americans of Colour. They didn't show for Sanders in the primaries and overwhelmingly backed Clinton in the general. African Americans are the strongest supporters of the Democratic party, and it needs them to win.

Sanders baldly stating that Trump voters aren't racist (not even "some" or "most,") went down like a lead balloon with those who actually experience racism. They're also chastised for the "divisiveness" of their "identity politics," when voicing concerns about racism or intersections of oppression being ignored by those on the Left. It baffles me that Sanders supporters seem unable (or unwilling) to see there is a problem here.

As for the infographic, I've seen it pop up frequently in social media and the poll's been popular in mainstream media. However, I haven't seem much unpicking of methodology. Have a wee nose at this WTF is the "Harvard-Harris Poll," Anyway?

It was only an online poll, small sample, white people over-represented. It asked about "popularity," which is not the same as "would you vote for." One post I saw said something about how many Black Americans like Laura Bush, but wouldn't vote for her. If Left leaning folk are using this one poll as evidence that they've got the support of Americans of Colour "in the bag," they're in for a big surprise.

The other point being missed is that there's nothing new about former US Presidents getting large fees for speaking engagements. But suddenly, it's all righteous indignation when it's Obama getting paid. It's amusing to read the textual gymnastics of people on the right and left trying to rationalise how "it's different" without saying the real reason it's "different" to them.

 

[Idris2002]

BTW, about the author of that piece...

smooth kobra racist - Twitter Search

This nasty piece of work used to just tweet racist, homophobic and sexist abuse into a void but somewhere along the line realised that he could monetise his disgusting behaviour by taking in scum like CRI.

Jesus, a black neckbeard. Now I've seen everything.

 

[maomao]

The point being missed is that those on the Left in America are failing to engage with African Americans and other Americans of Colour. They didn't show for Sanders in the primaries and overwhelmingly backed Clinton in the general. African Americans are the strongest supporters of the Democratic party, and it needs them to win.

Sanders baldly stating that Trump voters aren't racist (not even "some" or "most,") went down like a lead balloon with those who actually experience racism. They're also chastised for the "divisiveness" of their "identity politics," when voicing concerns about racism or intersections of oppression being ignored by those on the Left. It baffles me that Sanders supporters seem unable (or unwilling) to see there is a problem here.

As for the infographic, I've seen it pop up frequently in social media and the poll's been popular in mainstream media. However, I haven't seem much unpicking of methodology. Have a wee nose at this WTF is the "Harvard-Harris Poll," Anyway?

It was only an online poll, small sample, white people over-represented. It asked about "popularity," which is not the same as "would you vote for." One post I saw said something about how many Black Americans like Laura Bush, but wouldn't vote for her. If Left leaning folk are using this one poll as evidence that they've got the support of Americans of Colour "in the bag," they're in for a big surprise.

The other point being missed is that there's nothing new about former US Presidents getting large fees for speaking engagements. But suddenly, it's all righteous indignation when it's Obama getting paid. It's amusing to read the textual gymnastics of people on the right and left trying to rationalise how "it's different" without saying the real reason it's "different" to them.

This thread's supposed to be about the Trump presidency. Can't you stop banging on about last year's primaries.

 

[J Ed]

This thread's supposed to be about the Trump presidency. Can't you stop banging on about last year's primaries.

It's OK when they do it

 

[CRI]

A while back, I mentioned that Sanders had an easy ride from the mainstream media (that wanted to promote a "horse race" for clicks and revenue) and the GOP (happy to let the Democratic candidates beat up each other.)

If by some miracle he'd have captured the nomination, the kid gloves would have come off and the GOP would have eviscerated him. Among other things, they' have made hay with the investigation of Jane Sanders' murky financial dealings with regard to Burlington College, which may still be under investigation with the FBI. (And please, saying, "But, this is to do with his spouse, not him," because that horse left on the wagontrain long ago.)

See Feds investigated college once run by Bernie Sanders’ wife.

And case details (extract of letter below) can be downloaded from here.





Apologies for dragging this back to 2016 folks.

 

[J Ed]

A while back, I mentioned that Sanders had an easy ride from the mainstream media (that wanted to promote a "horse race" for clicks and revenue) and the GOP (happy to let the Democratic candidates beat up each other.)

If by some miracle he'd have captured the nomination, the kid gloves would have come off and the GOP would have eviscerated him. Among other things, they' have made hay with the investigation of Jane Sanders' murky financial dealings with regard to Burlington College, which may still be under investigation with the FBI. (And please, saying, "But, this is to do with his spouse, not him," because that horse left on the wagontrain long ago.)

See Feds investigated college once run by Bernie Sanders’ wife.

And case details (extract of letter below) can be downloaded from here.

View attachment 105534

View attachment 105535

Apologies for dragging this back to 2016 folks.

Truther shit. You aren't right tbh.

 

[maomao]

All we do know is that Hillary definitely did lose the election and that Bernie 'might' have won it (or might not). So anyone who supported Hillary during the democratic nomination campaign is therefore directly responsible for Trump being president.

 

[J Ed]

This forum of course is a hive of people who are supportive of William Clinton, the Bushes etc being paid for speeches. Corruption is great generally, we just don't like when Obama does it because.......

 

[spring-peeper]

This thread's supposed to be about the Trump presidency. Can't you stop banging on about last year's primaries.

exactly!!!

When I come here and see new posts, I used to expect they would relate to Trumps presidency. I end up scrolling through the nonsense of Clinton, Sanders and opinions of what could have been.

Seriously - get a new thread to debate this stuff.

 

[CRI]

All we do know is that Hillary definitely did lose the election and that Bernie 'might' have won it (or might not). So anyone who supported Hillary during the democratic nomination campaign is therefore directly responsible for Trump being president.

I don't get why those who say, "Bernie lost the primaries, it was rigged and it was Hillary's fault," apply a different "logic," with their, "Hillary lost the general, rigging wasn't an issue and it was her fault Trump won." Those who lost, lost because they didn't get enough votes in the right places and their opponents did, period.

Chanting some version of the mantra, "Bernie would have won, Trump is Hillary's fault," isn't going to help bring an end to the kleptocratic Trump administration and GOP congress. The Democratic party isn't going to transform into an ideologically pure socialist movement with Sanders at the helm any time soon.

The party can be pulled to the left by listening to, bringing along and building on its core support base. The extra votes needed to win can be found among those who didn't vote or were prevented from voting last time. Courting Trump voters is a waste of time and energy. Bimble's post below and other evidence shows most of them are quite happy with what Trumps doing, thank you very much. If they suddenly wise up that they've shot themselves in the foot along with the people they don't like, they'll figure out how not to vote Trump/GOP next time.

Yes, let's move on.

Some statistics from a recent survey suggesting that there really is nothing Trump could do that would make those who voted for him lose faith.

• 80 percent of Trump voters think it’s a bigger problem that news organizations produce false stories, while only 3 percent of them think it’s a bigger problem that the Trump administration makes false claims. (Among Republicans overall, this is 69-14)
• 84 percent of Trump voters think he’s keeping most of his major campaign promises, while only 4 percent think he isn’t, and 89 percent of them think he’s honest and trustworthy.

ttps://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/04/27/trumps-lies-are-working-brilliantly-this-new-poll-proves-it/?utm_term=.6735b23d5606

It really does seem that they will back him up every time he calls something he doesn't like Fake News, and believe him even when it must be an effort to do so.

 

[maomao]

I don't get why those who say, "Bernie lost the primaries, it was rigged and it was Hillary's fault," apply a different "logic," with their, "Hillary lost the general, rigging wasn't an issue and it was her fault Trump won." Those who lost, lost because they didn't get enough votes in the right places and their opponents did, period.

Chanting some version of the mantra, "Bernie would have won, Trump is Hillary's fault," isn't going to help bring an end to the kleptocratic Trump administration and GOP congress. The Democratic party isn't going to transform into an ideologically pure socialist movement with Sanders at the helm any time soon.

The party can be pulled to the left by listening to, bringing along and building on its core support base. The extra votes needed to win can be found among those who didn't vote or were prevented from voting last time. Courting Trump voters is a waste of time and energy. Bimble's post below and other evidence shows most of them are quite happy with what Trumps doing, thank you very much. If they suddenly wise up that they've shot themselves in the foot along with the people they don't like, they'll figure out how not to vote Trump/GOP next time.

Yes, let's move on.

I wasn't being entirely serious. I was mocking your previous argument. I won't do it again. I had forgotten that you're only capable of very basic and literal arguments. Apologies.

 

[NoXion]

Point missed completely then.

Humour me then, what point are you trying to make? The article seems to imply that it's racist to criticise Obama for being paid silly money to speak at a bunch of banker wankers. I presume that you have an opinion of your own?

 

[CRI]

Humour me then, what point are you trying to make? The article seems to imply that it's racist to criticise Obama for being paid silly money to speak a bunch of banker wankers. I presume that you have an opinion of your own?

I've argued before that few "birthers" genuinely believe Obama was born in Kenya, but they felt less queasy citing this for why he shouldn't be in the White House rather than their real reason - that he was Black and should not be Commander in Chief.

Hardly a whimper when past Presidents, Democrats and Republicans, took coins after leaving office. Now the ex prez is a Black guy, people on the Left and Right are tamping about the "ethics."

In politics, some people get slated and some get a pass, or even celebrated for doing virtually the same things. You don't have to look hard to see that usually there's some double standard involved, though almost always denied.

Before anyone gets their panties in a wad - I am not calling any individual here a racist, but won't be surprised if someone insists I am. We're all grown ass people on an anonymous message board. Plenty here respond to my posts with personal attacks, but IDGAF about someone I don't know calling me a name, telling me I'm stupid, whatever. As before, I'll suggest that anyone who finds my posts upsetting or offensive put me on ignore. Life's too short!

 

[NoXion]

I've argued before that few "birthers" genuinely believe Obama was born in Kenya, but they felt less queasy citing this for why he shouldn't be in the White House rather than their real reason - that he was Black and should not be Commander in Chief.

Hardly a whimper when past Presidents, Democrats and Republicans, took coins after leaving office. Now the ex prez is a Black guy, people on the Left and Right are tamping about the "ethics."

In politics, some people get slated and some get a pass, or even celebrated for doing virtually the same things. You don't have to look hard to see that usually there's some double standard involved, though almost always denied.

Before anyone gets their panties in a wad - I am not calling any individual here a racist, but won't be surprised if someone insists I am. We're all grown ass people on an anonymous message board. Plenty here respond to my posts with personal attacks, but IDGAF about someone I don't know calling me a name. As before, I'll suggest that anyone who finds my posts upsetting or offensive put me on ignore. Life's too short!

You are aware that those on the left criticise politicians for taking coin all the time, right? Just because the Birthers do it as a fig-leaf doesn't mean others do, and you should understand that implying that those on the left are doing the same thing will understandably get peoples' backs up.

 

[killer b]

I think the social media maelstrom of modern politics makes it difficult to compare criticism of what Obama does now with criticism of, say, what Clinton did after he left office in 2001.

To look at someone who's left office more recently than Clinton, there's plenty of criticism of Tony Blair's post Downing Street career, and I don't think he's black.

 

[bimble]

This is really bad news, given how much the President loves watching Fox News.

Respondents said that N Korea was threat number one now, above ISIS.
Fox News Poll: April 27, 2017

 

[CrabbedOne]

You are aware that those on the left criticise politicians for taking coin all the time, right? Just because the Birthers do it as a fig-leaf doesn't mean others do, and you should understand that implying that those on the left are doing the same thing will understandably get peoples' backs up.

In a political system where a typical Congressman spends a couple of hours a day pestering lobbyists for campaign funding and almost ever senior Senators breakfasts are dominated by the same endless grubby business getting at politicians for being in others pay is a bit like being angry with whelks for being wet. Kissing babies and telling lies about caring for the lowest decile is far less central to US politics.

Ended up entirely playing into Trump's far from clean tiny hands as well as it supported his bogus claim to be self funded. At which point he does his best to reward his largest donors.

 

[J Ed]

I think the social media maelstrom of modern politics makes it difficult to compare criticism of what Obama does now with criticism of, say, what Clinton did after he left office in 2001.

To look at someone who's left office more recently than Clinton, there's plenty of criticism of Tony Blair's post Downing Street career, and I don't think he's black.

Romney was pilloried for speaking fees in2012, also not black. Almost as if race here is an irrelevance and an offensive one at that.

 

[J Ed]

Isn't it interesting how content free CRI and similar others' politics are. It's all just cultural wedge issues and the defence of the left side of neoliberalism with baseless accusations of racism or whatever. Almost like this is all motivated by a combination of ignorance and a desire to conceal their right wing politics.

 

[bimble]

Some wag on the late night Tv quipped that it's silly to expect Obama to not just be the first black president but also the first president not to cash in after the job. A non story surely this whole thing.

 

[The Pale King]

Romney was pilloried for speaking fees in2012, also not black. Almost as if race here is an irrelevance and an offensive one at that.

Agreed, but not quite an irrelevance I think. Allows the liberal defender of Obama to perform 'wokeness' whilst in fact demonstrating a patronizing and essentialist attitude to race.

 

[maomao]

In a political system where a typical Congressman spends a couple of hours a day pestering lobbyists for campaign funding and almost ever senior Senators breakfasts are dominated by the same endless grubby business getting at politicians for being in others pay is a bit like being angry with whelks for being wet. Kissing babies and telling lies about caring for the lowest decile is far less central to US politics.

Ended up entirely playing into Trump's far from clean tiny hands as well as it supported his bogus claim to be self funded. At which point he does his best to reward his largest donors.

Except no-one here's mentioned it. They were just responding to the rather odd suggestion that any such criticism would be racist.

 

[J Ed]

Some wag on the late night Tv quipped that it's silly to expect Obama to not just be the first black president but also the first president not to cash in after the job. A non story surely this whole thing.

He is literally still speaking out against the influence of money in politics, that was and is his schtick. He is a corrupt hypocrite.

 

[J Ed]

The main real difference here is that the defence of corruption is accusations of racism against those who have the temerity to correctly identify it.

These accusations are fanatical and cannot actually be believed by anyone, yet another hypocrisy from those who worry about ,'post-truth'