The stupidity of the anti-vaxx nutcases

[bimble]

I had a long phonecall just now with an old friend i haven't seen for ages, she called me to get my 'take' on the worrying covid conspiracy views of guy she's dating and .. FUCKING HELL FUCK .

She's sent links to some of the stuff this dude's been sending her.
Not going to post them here but this stuff is so much worse & so much madder than i had any idea was even going on.
American, trumpist, so extreme, and fronted by people with MD in their title somehow.
Thought i was exhausted from the whole culture war covid battle already but I had no idea what was even out there. Video titles:



etc

She says she's not watched the videos, they're too long, but his influence has been enough to make her not get jabbed. She is a teacher at a secondary school.

 

[existentialist]

I had a long phonecall just now with an old friend i haven't seen for ages, she called me to get my 'take' on the worrying covid conspiracy views of guy she's dating and .. FUCKING HELL FUCK .

She's sent links to some of the stuff this dude's been sending her.
Not going to post them here but this stuff is so much worse & so much madder than i had any idea was even going on.
American, trumpist, so extreme, and fronted by people with MD in their title somehow.
Thought i was exhausted from the whole culture war covid battle already but I had no idea what was even out there. Video titles:

View attachment 277602View attachment 277603View attachment 277604

etc

She says she's not watched the videos, they're too long, but his influence has been enough to make her not get jabbed. She is a teacher at a secondary school.

It's almost like there's a second pandemic running in parallel with Covid-19

 

[bimble]

It's almost like there's a second pandemic running in parallel with Covid-19

Yes, hadn't seen it that way. they are scared as hell but of something else, something imagined.

 

[Chilli.s]

She is a teacher at a secondary school.

Advise her to change career, sharpish

 

[emanymton]

Advise her to change career, sharpish

Or just dump the guy.

 

[bimble]

Or just dump the guy.

did my best. this seems to be my job lately, people phone me and i say dump him.

 

[emanymton]

did my best. this seems to be my job lately, people phone me and i say dump him.

Sounds like you are providing a useful service.

 

[bimble]

Looking at those videos has done my head in. I did a couple of minutes and am haunted. cant even imagine what this does to people, watching hours and hours of that stuff, or how you recover from it. I like the idea of this as a parallel pandemic.

 

[spring-peeper]

googled on of the titles listed

What Judy Mikovits Gets Wrong

Pretty much everything, pathologist argues

www.medpagetoday.com

A number of videos by Judy Mikovits, PhD, most notably "Plandemic," address the origins of COVID-19 and the purported harms of mask-wearing. Her personal/political/non-COVID beliefs are her own, and will not be discussed here.

Regarding COVID, she makes three virology/immunology claims, and one public health claim:

• Mask-wearing "activates the virus," continually re-infects the wearer, and risks killing the wearer via carbon dioxide
• The cell line in which the new coronavirus is cultured, Vero E6, originated in a U.S. military laboratory and was recently transferred to Wuhan
• SARS-CoV-2 doesn't cause COVID-19; it's actually a retrovirus which was a contaminant in influenza vaccinations given in 2013-2014
• Predicting a pandemic, and planning a response to one, is suspicious

 

[kabbes]

bimble — do you have any friends that don’t cause you endless headaches and worry?

 

[bimble]

bimble — do you have any friends that don’t cause you endless headaches and worry?

Thinking about this, mostly it'll just be that i am a bit of a weirdo and naturally so are my friends but i think there's also something else going on - People who are single and were doing internet dating when the pandemic started (most of my little group of friends are this) , this past year and a half has been an extra strange time for some of them, and i think as a result with lockdowns and loneliness there have been worse choices and bigger compromises made than usual.
I don't even know that many people but it does feel like a lot of them, these single ones, have made allowances and ignored their gut instincts in the pursuit of some kind of comfort to a degree that they wouldn't have done in normal times when you can go out and meet people and do stuff .

 

[LDC]

A friend in a relationship with someone who had convinced them (or scared them enough) to not get a potentially life saving medical intervention is in an abusive relationship imo.

 

[bimble]

It's the most thankless task the 'dump him' service. She's pissed off with me now for popping all her balloons. I don't know if you can say its an abusive relationship she is a grown-up, she didn't have to carry on past the first lunatic youtube link from some internet dating bloke she chose to do that.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

It's the most thankless task the 'dump him' service.

It's a sad state of affairs if you're having to provide such advice repeatedly, but you're doing a good job.

 

[kabbes]

A friend in a relationship with someone who had convinced them (or scared them enough) to not get a potentially life saving medical intervention is in an abusive relationship imo.

I don’t know that it’s as black and white as that. He earnestly believes that something is harmful and he’s trying to prevent that harm. To do this, he’s trying to persuade using arguments. He’s wrong, but I don’t think being wrong by itself makes you abusive. The intent is benign.

 

[two sheds]

Always difficult advising someone about their partner - if they're serious they're going to have to tell the partner what you've said.

Bit of a diversion but even worse is when a couple split up and you say to your friend "I'm not surprised, I never understood why you were going out" because it's then almost certain they'll get back together again

 

[bimble]

I don’t know that it’s as black and white as that. He earnestly believes that something is harmful and he’s trying to prevent that harm. To do this, he’s trying to persuade using arguments. He’s wrong, but I don’t think being wrong by itself makes you abusive. The intent is benign.

Yeah exactly, he surely genuinely thinks he's keeping her safe from harm. I think she is experiencing this as care & love, which she craves obvs, and that's why she refuses to engage brain.

 

[existentialist]

I don’t know that it’s as black and white as that. He earnestly believes that something is harmful and he’s trying to prevent that harm. To do this, he’s trying to persuade using arguments. He’s wrong, but I don’t think being wrong by itself makes you abusive. The intent is benign.

It might not be "abusive" but it's heading pretty close to being controlling/coercive.

 

[kabbes]

It might not be "abusive" but it's heading pretty close to being controlling/coercive.

We don’t have enough information to conclude that. We all in some way try to persuade our partners and friends of things that we believe in. At what point does presenting an argument become coercive? I think that point is a long way after saying what you believe and sending a YouTube link to back it up.

 

[LDC]

We don’t have enough information to conclude that. We all in some way try to persuade our partners and friends of things that we believe in. At what point does presenting an argument become coercive? I think that point is a long way after saying what you believe and sending a YouTube link to back it up.

When what someone is trying to do is stop them getting a potentially life saving intervention? Also sounds like it's a bit beyond them just sending a YouTube link to her to me.

As for the keeping someone safe argument, that holds no water for me, what about keeping someone locked up to stop them coming from what you think is some harm in the outside world? Not letting them see their old friends as they think they're a bad influence on them? All sorts of stuff like that gets used to justify abusive and controlling behaviour doesn't it?

Maybe abusive is not strictly right, but controlling and coercive at the very least surely?

I admit I have a very low bar for this though. It rings like a million warning bells for me having seen people I know have similar things, it never ends well, best save time and heartache and get them split up now.

 

[kabbes]

Maybe abusive is not strictly right, but controlling and coercive at the very least surely?
I admit I have a very low bar for this though. It rings like a million warning bells for me having seen people I know have similar things, it never ends well, best save time and heartache and get them split up now.

There is a danger that in applying your own experiences, you’ll impute behaviour to others that they aren’t actually exhibiting. This guy could be coercive. He could be controlling, he could be neither. Merely believing in something and being evangelical about that belief is not in itself either, though. Bimble is the only one here really in a position to judge beyond that.

 

[bimble]

i think my best last shot on this one will be to suggest to her that whilst the bombardment with youtube videos about why she shouldn't have the vaccine cos it will kill you might feel like evidence of someone caring about you, she needs & deserves a far better and different kind of affection.
thats it what else can i do. She's only met the guy a few times she can get out of this one all by herself.

 

[prunus]

I know this is a purely personal reaction, but if anyone I was supposed to have any kind of relationship with, be it romantic or friendship, tried to persuade me of anything by bombarding me with YouTube videos rather than you know, talking with me, like friends are supposed to, it would be a massive red flag.

I am nearly 50 though, maybe communication has changed.

 

[existentialist]

Nimble

There is a danger that in applying your own experiences, you’ll impute behaviour to others that they aren’t actually exhibiting. This guy could be coercive. He could be controlling, he could be neither. Merely believing in something and being evangelical about that belief is not in itself either, though. Bimble is the only one here really in a position to judge beyond that.

TBF, I carefully said "getting close to being" controlling and coercive - nobody sensible is going to be making definitive statements about a situation being reported third hand.

But, FWIW, the "it's for your own good" stuff raises some big red flags for me.

 

[LDC]

I am nearly 50 though, maybe communication has changed.

The youth probably dump one another by sending each other TikTok memes or something.

And yes, all fair points kabbes and the others.

 

[pug]

I think theres a level of malignant manipulation being propagated with stuff like memes which state that "if you loved me youd watch these (bullshit) videos before getting the jab"

 

[WouldBe]

googled on of the titles listed

What Judy Mikovits Gets Wrong

Pretty much everything, pathologist argues

www.medpagetoday.com

Oh no, if you can suffocate due to wearing a mask then mouth to mouth resuscitation can't work.

 

[Orang Utan]

just had a customer demanding housing benefit and other benefits cos they’ve lost their care home job for being unvaccinated.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I know this is a purely personal reaction, but if anyone I was supposed to have any kind of relationship with, be it romantic or friendship, tried to persuade me of anything by bombarding me with YouTube videos rather than you know, talking with me, like friends are supposed to, it would be a massive red flag.

I am nearly 50 though, maybe communication has changed.

You're clearly very out of date with the modern world.

It is a bit weird - it'd be like prospective partners sending you magazines and books to read in the pre-internet days.

 

[petee]

it'd be like prospective partners sending you magazines and books to read in the pre-internet days.

not a bad idea, shows what you;re interested in.
i was once dropped by a woman after playing some of the music i liked - penguin cafe orchestra, for example.