The stupidity of the anti-vaxx nutcases

[LDC]

I've sent him some information about Joseph Mercola, reiterating that I understand and respect his choice not to have the jab, but that if he sees an article he should research the credentials of his author, and that Mercola clearly can't be trusted 100 percent.

I've got to the point where I can't be friends with people like that. An important basis for friendship is respect and trust, and I just have lost the ability to have any respect or trust for people that can entertain that kind of bollocks.

 

[cupid_stunt]

One of my housemates, who I consider a friend, says he's going to start social distancing from me in the house and sticking to WhatsApp for communication because I had the vaccine the other day and he's worried about protein shedding. He got that from an article written by a Joseph Mercola, who's a qualified doctor but antivax and now sells himself as an alternative healing specialist. In other words, a bullshitter and a scam artist.

This nonsense started of as simple 'vaccine shedding', which can only happen if a vaccine includes a live virus, none of the covid vaccines do.

Vaccine shedding is a term used to describe the release of a virus from a live-virus vaccine: essentially the possibility of a person who has received a vaccine passing on potential secondary effects to other people. However, as the CDC points out, none of the vaccines currently in use or in development in the United States contain the live virus that causes covid-19, making vaccine shedding an impossibility. LINK

Then they moved onto 'spike protein shedding', which is also impossible, and complete nonsense.

“They’re injected into your arm, and that’s where they stay,” Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins, was quoted as saying by the New York Times. “mRNA is taken up by your muscle cells near the site of injection, the cells use it to make that protein, the immune system learns about the spike protein and gets rid of those cells. It’s not something that circulates.” LINK

My housemate isn't a Covid denier, in fact he's been social distancing and masking up, sometimes even in the house. He's just not sure about the vaccine as he feels it was rushed through and doesn't want it injected into him. I don't agree but respect his choice as it's his body. So I'm not looking to convince him to get the jab if he doesn't want to, I'm just worried about him taking advice from someone like Mercola who's also denied that HIV causes AIDS and thinks you can treat cancer with baking soda.

They were rushed, for understandable reasons, but they still under went all the usual trials, these two articles have helped a few people I know that had such concerns, could help your housemate, if they are willing to read them. People that are just hesitant about the vaccines can be persuaded IME, it's the covid deniers & extreme anti-vaxxers that are beyond help.

The vaccine miracle: how scientists waged the battle against Covid-19

We trace the extraordinary research effort, from the discovery of the virus’s structure to the start of inoculations this week

www.theguardian.com

The Covid vaccine arrived quickly – but there's every reason to trust it | Charlotte Summers

It’s safe, it works, and it gives a tantalising glimpse of what else might be achieved given sufficient political will, says Dr Charlotte Summers, of the University of Cambridge

www.theguardian.com

 

[Orang Utan]

This 'plandemic' conspiracy theory is so ridiculously stupid you really have to be something of a moron to buy in to it.

My sister isn't a moron, thanks.

 

[editor]

My sister isn't a moron, thanks.

Get her to explain how all the governments, corporates, businesses, health authorities, scientists and doctors in the word all got together to make this plandemic happen then. And then ask what would be the point.

 

[xenon]

There's a range of anti vaccers. From those who just don't want to have medical intervention where they think it is not necesary, have concerns, maybe misguided or born on an over confidence in their own belief, that the vaccines may not be safe, have been rushed etc. To those who are full on Bill Gates, 5G, the vaccine is microchip poison, population control, NWO enslavement wackjobs.

I've got time for the former and could discuss it theoretically. The others, I despise, fuck 'em.

It seems an normal empathetic response as were I one of them, I'd expect to be shunned, othered etc.

Conspiracies, who they attract, how they gain currency and spread, is an interesting phenomenom though.

 

[Orang Utan]

Get her to explain how all the governments, corporates, businesses, health authorities, scientists and doctors in the word all got together to make this plandemic happen then.

I'd rather not - I don't think these people are necessarily stupid, just foolish

 

[LDC]

I'm totally zero tolerance for this stuff now. Someone I know has had their kids taken abroad by their ex as their ex is a complete plandemic/anti-vaxxer/extreme conspiracy person and they're insisting it's 'dangerous' for them to be in the UK. There's a good chance this person is going to lose access to their kids now.

 

[two sheds]

Get her to explain how all the governments, corporates, businesses, health authorities, scientists and doctors in the word all got together to make this plandemic happen then. And then ask what would be the point.

Is that necessarily true? Only really needs one person to plan anything. Not saying they did, clearly, but I don't think they need to believe that loads of people have to be in on it.

 

[editor]

Is that necessarily true? Only really needs one person to plan anything. Not saying they did, clearly, but I don't think they need to believe that loads of people have to be in on it.

Except the fruitloop plandemic theory is not about one person. Read up on it (if you can be arsed).

The Twitter origins and evolution of the COVID-19 “plandemic” conspiracy theory | HKS Misinformation Review

Tweets about “plandemic” (e.g., #plandemic)—the notion that the COVID-19 pandemic was planned or fraudulent—helped to spread several distinct conspiracy theories related to COVID-19. But the term’s catchy nature attracted attention from anti-vaccine activist filmmakers who ultimately created...

misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I've got to the point where I can't be friends with people like that. An important basis for friendship is respect and trust, and I just have lost the ability to have any respect or trust for people that can entertain that kind of bollocks.

I'm the same. I strongly feel I can't risk having anything to do with such people.

 

[pinkmonkey]

I can't be bothered to argue with people online. You're unlikely to change their mind. But you can decrease their reach by blocking them and not engaging with them.

 

[two sheds]

Except the fruitloop plandemic theory is not about one person. Read up on it (if you can be arsed).

The Twitter origins and evolution of the COVID-19 “plandemic” conspiracy theory | HKS Misinformation Review

Tweets about “plandemic” (e.g., #plandemic)—the notion that the COVID-19 pandemic was planned or fraudulent—helped to spread several distinct conspiracy theories related to COVID-19. But the term’s catchy nature attracted attention from anti-vaccine activist filmmakers who ultimately created...

misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu

I'll take your word for it

 

[l'Otters]

... and you did not share?

Since it was just a couple of days ago, could you go find it and let us see what you are on about?

The one I saw a couple of days ago is the one I was replying to.

The version with other text in that section of the Venn diagram was going around last summer. I did not save it.

I don’t actually find it that easy to add attachments to posts & I don’t appreciate the implication that it’s required.

 

[Riklet]

Ive decided im not going to say any soft liberal pap like...

"it's ok it's your choice" or "everyone has to make a personal decision" etc to any other balanced neutral thing to the anti vaxx or vacc resistant people I know. Equally im not going to let it anger or frustrate me, just step back.

Fuck off I am not validating some stupid selfish people's daft attitudes, if they are going to be like that I'm not validating it in the slightest bit. If they were so concerned and caring and bla bla bla they would be getting vaccinated.

 

[Flavour]

It's staggering and depressing how many people I know in Italy who are generally not anti-vax but are not at all sure they'll get the vaccine and don't really see it as necessary. I'm tired of talking about it.

 

[Yossarian]

... and you did not share?

Since it was just a couple of days ago, could you go find it and let us see what you are on about?

There's anti-masker version - that Venn diagram seems to have as many variants as the coronavirus.

 

[Orang Utan]

You could substitute ‘Urban 75 poster’ just about anywhere there

 

[BigMoaner]

It should all blow over.

I think.

 

[souljacker]

This nonsense started of as simple 'vaccine shedding', which can only happen if a vaccine includes a live virus, none of the covid vaccines do.



Then they moved onto 'spike protein shedding', which is also impossible, and complete nonsense.






They were rushed, for understandable reasons, but they still under went all the usual trials, these two articles have helped a few people I know that had such concerns, could help your housemate, if they are willing to read them. People that are just hesitant about the vaccines can be persuaded IME, it's the covid deniers & extreme anti-vaxxers that are beyond help.

The vaccine miracle: how scientists waged the battle against Covid-19

We trace the extraordinary research effort, from the discovery of the virus’s structure to the start of inoculations this week

www.theguardian.com

The Covid vaccine arrived quickly – but there's every reason to trust it | Charlotte Summers

It’s safe, it works, and it gives a tantalising glimpse of what else might be achieved given sufficient political will, says Dr Charlotte Summers, of the University of Cambridge

www.theguardian.com

Good luck getting any of these clowns believing anything in the Guardian

 

[souljacker]

Is that necessarily true? Only really needs one person to plan anything. Not saying they did, clearly, but I don't think they need to believe that loads of people have to be in on it.

They do though. It would be impossible to make up a pandemic without huge amounts of people involved, from govt ministers all the way down to nurses in hospitals. You couldn't roll out a huge new communications protocol that happens to kill whilst activating the chips in the vaccines without the help of thousands of scientists, engineers, executives, admin staff etc etc. You couldn't roll out the beginnings of a fascist state without getting local councils and communities on board with agenda 21 and the great reset. There must be literally millions 'in on it' if it's true.

 

[BigMoaner]

Good luck getting any of these clowns believing anything in the Guardian

They do though. It would be impossible to make up a pandemic without huge amounts of people involved, from govt ministers all the way down to nurses in hospitals. You couldn't roll out a huge new communications protocol that happens to kill whilst activating the chips in the vaccines without the help of thousands of scientists, engineers, executives, admin staff etc etc. You couldn't roll out the beginnings of a fascist state without getting local councils and communities on board with agenda 21 and the great reset. There must be literally millions 'in on it' if it's true.

Thyed have to hoodwink all the major unis studying this stuff

 

[kabbes]

Within the “plandemic” conspiracy theories, the idea that COVID is made up (which would require massive buy-in from worldwide health actors) is a fringe belief. The more usual conspiracy is that the virus was intentionally created and released. That would not require many actors as part of the conspiracy. One laboratory, really.

This is part of what I mean about othering and dehumanising. There is just an assumption being made about how stupid the “other side” are and therefore a willingness to blanket them with straw man beliefs, no matter how unlikely.

 

[BigMoaner]

Within the “plandemic” conspiracy theories, the idea that COVID is made up (which would require massive buy-in from worldwide health actors) is a fringe belief. The more usual conspiracy is that the virus was intentionally created and released. That works not require many actors as part of the conspiracy. One laboratory, really.

That was an early runner, but denial/extremely minimised is the general thread now. "it just the flu", if it exists at all

 

[kabbes]

That was an early runner, but denial/extremely minimised is the general thread now. "it just the flu", if it exists at all

In the paper that editor posted, it was the primary focus.

Throughout Plandemic, discredited former National Cancer Institute scientist Dr. Judy Mikovits is shown in a series of interview clips (Alba, 2020). Dr. Mikovits makes several demonstrably false or misleading claims about COVID-19, including: 1) coronavirus may have originated from US government research into the flu vaccine, 2) COVID-19 vaccine is being used to push a pro-vaccine agenda led by academia and industry, 3) Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the US National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Disease, profited from the HIV/AIDS epidemic and suppressed Dr. Mikovits’ anti-vaccine research, and 4) face masks activate dormant coronavirus particles implanted through flu vaccination (Alba, 2020; Elliott, 2020; Frenkel et al., 2020; Funke, 2020a).

 

[Yossarian]

In the paper that editor posted, it was the primary focus.

Mikovits implicates doctors, scientists, academics, numerous government agencies, and probably the reverse vampires in her theories, which sounds like a lot of actors to me.

 

[kabbes]

Mikovits implicates doctors, scientists, academics, numerous government agencies, and probably the reverse vampires in her theories, which sounds like a lot of actors to me.

But the core belief that spread was not that COVID was fake, but that it was planned. From there, people could believe all kinds of things about what that plan involved.

 

[Yossarian]

But the core belief that spread was not that COVID was fake, but that it was planned. From there, people could believe all kinds of things about what that plan involved.

Whether COVID was created as part of a plan that involved exaggerating the threat or whether the whole thing was planned as a hoax is probably the subject of hot debate in certain circles, but I get the impression that "hoax" is now the dominant strain of thought.

 

[jakejb79]

As well as hearing the usual this is a Bill Gates Microchip vaccine, someone once told it was created by Visa and MasterCard so that the entire world goes cashless.....

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

"it's just a flu" and "a mountain out of a molehill" is what I see at the moment, leading to "give us our freedom back" and "it's being used to steal our freedom"

 

[Orang Utan]

Had a Covid-denier/anti-masker at work today. I told him to shut his mouth. He started muttering f-bombs. I yelled at him not to come back with any of that nonsense. He was supposed to come back to use a computer but didn’t - shame, as I was in the mood for a barney and was looking forward to asking him to put a mask on