The stupidity of the anti-vaxx nutcases

[BigMoaner]

The anti-vaxxer is typically trying to help others, they are not antipathetic. If they didn’t care about others, they’d just keep quiet rather than assume a militant “anti-vaxxer” identity. They think that people are hurting themselves by injecting poison and this bothers them, so they are trying to stop it.

By creating a “them and us” rhetoric and labelling the “them” as evildoers of malicious intent, all you’re doing is ensuring the divide becomes unbridgeable. Why should somebody listen to a person that has already labelled them as evil?

It's the monkey putting the fish safely up a tree to stop it drowning.

I get it.

Disinformation can kill though. I guess it would be manslaughter.

 

[kabbes]

Othering that prevents communication also contributes to that climate that kills. Do you see yourself as culpable?

 

[BigMoaner]

Othering that prevents communication also contributes to that climate that kills. Do you see yourself as culpable?

Othering might equally make them wonder why they are being othered!

If I have covid, whether I know it or not, and have disregard for the rules, then othering or not, and I pass it on, is that not manslaughter? How can I approach that without othering the person?

 

[BigMoaner]

If I wrote something on here that was clearly shite and nasty, and I got pages of abuse and criticism, I'm the type who would look inward because I'd be embarrassed. The idea thay criticism and even mockery always fences people off even deeper is.. Based on what exactly? Think it should be backed up especially after suggesting it kills.

 

[BigMoaner]

Ever thought mockery and ridicule could actually be a very natural way of protecting people from deranged stuff? That it's a way of fencing it off so others don't fall into it?

 

[BigMoaner]

Of course the conditions and systems and dynamics that's create the stuff need to be addressed too, but that doesn't mean it has to be one or the other.

 

[BigMoaner]

Othering that prevents communication also contributes to that climate that kills. Do you see yourself as culpable?

It's OK to other the otherer and call him a killer but not okay to call the othered a killer.

Confusing.

 

[petee]

FFS:

this bus driver's son is plenty angry with that

 

[NoXion]

Othering that prevents communication also contributes to that climate that kills. Do you see yourself as culpable?

Conspiratwats are not interested in communication. I've tried engaging with such people for a good chunk of my life. Even if you're scrupulously polite and do your best to humour them, the best you might get out of them is silence as they ignore you. Otherwise they can come up with a million post hoc rationalisations of their position. That's if they don't just accuse you of being a shill or try shouting you down.

They're preachers. They're looking for an audience, not an argument.

 

[BigMoaner]

Take scientology. Is the mockery and othering of scientology a way of making followers even more entrenched? Or will they one day think "hang on a minute, the world is taking the piss out of me. Perhaps I should look into this a bit more closely"

Is mockery and othering putting a barrier against people even entertaining the idea of joining them.. I would suggest it is.

 

[Shechemite]

One of the problems with mockery is it allows scum like Scientology to be perceived as bizarre yet harmless.

 

[krtek a houby]

Anti-vaxxers don’t want to kill you. That kind of escalation of rhetoric is the opposite of useful.

They just want freedom to potentially infect others. So some of them are selfish, at the least. Then, there's the crossover with the conspiracy loons and far right. Some of them want to kill.

 

[spring-peeper]

They just want freedom to potentially infect others. So some of them are selfish, at the least. Then, there's the crossover with the conspiracy loons and far right. Some of them want to kill.

I don't believe that of all anti-vax.
I think that they really, in their heart of hearts, believe that the covid is not real.

By trying to stop you from have poison injected into you, they think that they are trying to save you.

 

[krtek a houby]

I don't believe that of all anti-vax.
I think that they really, in their heart of hearts, believe that the covid is not real.

By trying to stop you from have poison injected into you, they think that they are trying to save you.

Am sure there are many well meaning anti-vaxx people out there. A few of my friends have gone down that route. Unfortunately, some of the other crossover stuff seems to have infected their thinking and it's led to a few strained relationships. That said, none of them want to kill anyone.

Everyone who's argued with anti-vaxxers/covid deniers/conspiracy types will have different experiences. Have had bad ones, (not with mates) so perhaps am biased to be less favorable to some of them.

 

[spring-peeper]

Am sure there are many well meaning anti-vaxx people out there. A few of my friends have gone down that route. Unfortunately, some of the other crossover stuff seems to have infected their thinking and it's led to a few strained relationships. That said, none of them want to kill anyone.

Everyone who's argued with anti-vaxxers/covid deniers/conspiracy types will have different experiences. Have had bad ones, (not with mates) so perhaps am biased to be less favorable to some of them.

Sad to say, but two of my four children will not get vaccinated.

They are not anti-vax, all their children have been vaccinated for all childhood diseases.

Boy will not because he doesn't have a health card. Told him that it didn't matter, but I think he is just lazy.

Girl will not because the flu shot makes her sick.
Her hubby thinks that everyone who gets the shot are guinea pigs.
He has no issue with his wife getting the vaccine.

 

[l'Otters]

Good Venn diagram and thread

That meme was going around last year with “anti masker” or “covid denier” where this version has “anti vaxxer”. I did think it made more sense in the previous versions when I saw it posted online a few days ago.

 

[spring-peeper]

That meme was going around last year with “anti masker” or “covid denier” where this version has “anti vaxxer”. I did think it made more sense in the previous versions when I saw it posted online a few days ago.

... and you did not share?

Since it was just a couple of days ago, could you go find it and let us see what you are on about?

 

[kabbes]

Ever thought mockery and ridicule could actually be a very natural way of protecting people from deranged stuff? That it's a way of fencing it off so others don't fall into it?

Mockery is very different to simply labelling somebody as a genocidal. There’s no mockery in saying that somebody has intent to kill.

 

[Yossarian]

That Venn diagram has been around since before the pandemic - it seems a little unfair to mountain lions, which almost never attack humans.

 

[rekil]

Bolsonaro is being othered. Guilty of trying to help too much.

Tens of thousands of Brazilians march to demand Bolsonaro’s impeachment

Protests in over 200 cities and towns in Brazil sparked by president’s handling of the Covid pandemic

www.theguardian.com

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I have to say, I have mixed feelings about all this. On the one hand I think, or did think - for a while, that it is good to , at the very least, have some sympathy/understanding for people who have gone down the rabbit hole. I'm talking here about people who have had a really tough time and seem to have used being anti-lockdown/anti-mask etc as a coping mechanism (that's one way of looking at it anyway). For a lot of people, particluarly lonely people, this pandemic has been so hard. I think maybe we need to acknowledge this, and that these people are vulnerable, and have been conned by grifters and fake scientists and doctors etc

But the other part of me is wary of this and worries that sympathising with them sends out the wrong message and kinda legitimises their dangerous and bizarre beliefs. But it wouldn't be sympathy for their crazy and dangerous beliefs exactly, just that they've had a tough time like we all have, but they haven't coped with it and have resorted to these weird beliefs that have actually made themselves vulnerable (and others unfortunately). Ofcourse, I have no sympathy with the far-right, fascist elements and those who 'know what they're doing' and the sort of people who will harrass people and be disruptive. It's more the people that have been duped into this. How you determine who has been conned and who has just decided themselves to get into all this I don't know. It's complex I guess.

But I have to honest, I'm in two minds about what approach to take regarding these people.

 

[kabbes]

It’s best to start by avoiding us/them, sympathy/antagonism reasoning, particularly when it comes to imputing assumptions about motivations and bracketing all those on the “other side” together.

Your don’t have to sympathise with people or treat them with kid gloves in order to avoid labelling them as murderers and saying there is no basis for anything they say. There is something in between.

 

[Clair De Lune]

Also being angry and scared all the time is seriously bad for your health too.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

One of my housemates, who I consider a friend, says he's going to start social distancing from me in the house and sticking to WhatsApp for communication because I had the vaccine the other day and he's worried about protein shedding. He got that from an article written by a Joseph Mercola, who's a qualified doctor but antivax and now sells himself as an alternative healing specialist. In other words, a bullshitter and a scam artist.

My housemate isn't a Covid denier, in fact he's been social distancing and masking up, sometimes even in the house. He's just not sure about the vaccine as he feels it was rushed through and doesn't want it injected into him. I don't agree but respect his choice as it's his body. So I'm not looking to convince him to get the jab if he doesn't want to, I'm just worried about him taking advice from someone like Mercola who's also denied that HIV causes AIDS and thinks you can treat cancer with baking soda.

 

[Orang Utan]

My sister has gone a bit down this rabbit hole. She’s vaccine resistant and seems to suspect it’s a plandemic. Not an anti masker though. I just don’t bring it up and neither does she.

 

[two sheds]

One of my housemates, who I consider a friend, says he's going to start social distancing from me in the house and sticking to WhatsApp for communication because I had the vaccine the other day and he's worried about protein shedding. He got that from an article written by a Joseph Mercola, who's a qualified doctor but antivax and now sells himself as an alternative healing specialist. In other words, a bullshitter and a scam artist.

My housemate isn't a Covid denier, in fact he's been social distancing and masking up, sometimes even in the house. He's just not sure about the vaccine as he feels it was rushed through and doesn't want it injected into him. I don't agree but respect his choice as it's his body. So I'm not looking to convince him to get the jab if he doesn't want to, I'm just worried about him taking advice from someone like Mercola who's also denied that HIV causes AIDS and thinks you can treat cancer with baking soda.

Probably as well - if he's not vaccinated and catches coronavirus he could still pass it on to you even though you've have been.

 

[LDC]

One of my housemates, who I consider a friend, says he's going to start social distancing from me in the house and sticking to WhatsApp for communication because I had the vaccine the other day and he's worried about protein shedding. He got that from an article written by a Joseph Mercola, who's a qualified doctor but antivax and now sells himself as an alternative healing specialist. In other words, a bullshitter and a scam artist.

My housemate isn't a Covid denier, in fact he's been social distancing and masking up, sometimes even in the house. He's just not sure about the vaccine as he feels it was rushed through and doesn't want it injected into him. I don't agree but respect his choice as it's his body. So I'm not looking to convince him to get the jab if he doesn't want to, I'm just worried about him taking advice from someone like Mercola who's also denied that HIV causes AIDS and thinks you can treat cancer with baking soda.

That sounds totally fucking stupid and deluded to the point of comedy tbh. Worried about vaccine protein shedding so he's only going to send you Whatsapp messages and will social distance in the house?! Not sure how sharing a house longer term with someone like that can go well.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

That sounds totally fucking stupid and deluded to the point of comedy tbh. Worried about vaccine protein shedding so he's only going to send you Whatsapp messages and will social distance in the house?! Not sure how sharing a house longer term with someone like that can go well.

I've sent him some information about Joseph Mercola, reiterating that I understand and respect his choice not to have the jab, but that if he sees an article he should research the credentials of his author, and that Mercola clearly can't be trusted 100 percent.

 

[LDC]

I don't agree but respect his choice as it's his body.

Think this individualized and illogical personal choice over-ruling any evidence based collective social responsibility is part of the problem tbh.

 

[editor]

My sister has gone a bit down this rabbit hole. She’s vaccine resistant and seems to suspect it’s a plandemic. Not an anti masker though. I just don’t bring it up and neither does she.

This 'plandemic' conspiracy theory is so ridiculously stupid you really have to be something of a moron to buy in to it.