DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
That's a stretch, given the background
The new James Bond movie title is...
- Thread starter Helen Back
- Start date
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
what do you mean?
Reno
The In Kraut
Bond wasn't meant to be a sympathetic character or a conventional hero, his anti-social personality traits serve him well as an assassin for the British Secret Service. Fleming himself said, that he never intend him to be a likeable character. He's cold and calculating, views people, including women as disposable and as a man of his class and upbringing, he has conservative social values. That's the character of the novels and the Sean Connery films still are the closest to that in spirit. The later films soften him and turned him into more of a conventional hero, so people go back and are shocked that in the early films, he is basically a piece of shit. Yes, he also has a certain cool but that doesn't mean the books or the early films approve of all of his his actions, representation is not the same as endorsement.
The first two Roger Moore films still were written like Sean Connery movies and they don't quite work. The Spy Who Loved Me is the first Moore film which was tailored to his persona, self-deprecating and always ready with a bad pun and a raised eye brow. It also introduced the first Bond girl which genuinely was Bond's equal as 2nd wave feminism started to make inroads even with the Bond films (there were setbacks)
As someone who consumes a large amount of disreputable vintage entertainment on film (many worse than Bond) I can't get hugely outraged at dated or offensive values in old films. I look at it as where we were and how far we've come, but you can't change the past, so I look at it as educationial. There isn't another franchise which so reflects the values, aspirations and fashions of its time as the Bond films and that's what I think is the most interesting thing about them. It's always the same film but holding ap a mirror to current trends and attitudes.
The first two Roger Moore films still were written like Sean Connery movies and they don't quite work. The Spy Who Loved Me is the first Moore film which was tailored to his persona, self-deprecating and always ready with a bad pun and a raised eye brow. It also introduced the first Bond girl which genuinely was Bond's equal as 2nd wave feminism started to make inroads even with the Bond films (there were setbacks)
As someone who consumes a large amount of disreputable vintage entertainment on film (many worse than Bond) I can't get hugely outraged at dated or offensive values in old films. I look at it as where we were and how far we've come, but you can't change the past, so I look at it as educationial. There isn't another franchise which so reflects the values, aspirations and fashions of its time as the Bond films and that's what I think is the most interesting thing about them. It's always the same film but holding ap a mirror to current trends and attitudes.
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A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Didn't Flemming describe him as a thug in a dinner jacket?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I wasn’t outraged- just observing it with different eyes. All I cared about when I was 8 was the gadgets and the chases.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
He’s more of an assassin than a spy in the books. He doesn’t take photos of files in broken into offices or use many gadgets. He just fights, drinks, smokes, fucks and kills
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
reilly was real for a start Sidney Reilly - Wikipedia
Reno
The In Kraut
The space battle in Moonraker rocks. No seriously it's a great special effects sequence, it took the Stanley Kubrick approach of avoiding bluescreen and optical effects, everything was done in camera. There are no matte lines around anything, something which let so many effects sequences of the 70s and 80s down and the model work is very detailed.
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
This is the guy who by repute influenced Fleming for the "action" side of Bond:
Patrick Dalzel-Job – RN | SWWEC
war-experience.org
I remember him in much later life as a pillar of the community in Plockton and a more pleasant and gentlemanly chap you you couldn't hope to meet. He also claimed to have never read a Bond novel, having had enough of Fleming when serving under him in WW2!
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
That might be because of John Grover, who edited on 2001 as well Moonraker (and a load of other films of the era) - And I'm working with him this weekend, plus a few other Bond people:
Also:
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
I skimmed this thread with only one eye open as I was afraid of seeing open spoilers (but people seem to be behaving well on that front, thanks 
)
Consensus seems to be this is worth watching and as it’s shown up on a streaming service over here I’ll give it a go. Interestingly the cinematic release is listed as having a 2h43min duration but my friendly local streaming service has it up as a 2h 36min title. I wonder if they really have 7 extra mins of credits in the cinema roll, or if they’ve somehow edited the movie down a bit. I’ll probably never know.
)Consensus seems to be this is worth watching and as it’s shown up on a streaming service over here I’ll give it a go. Interestingly the cinematic release is listed as having a 2h43min duration but my friendly local streaming service has it up as a 2h 36min title. I wonder if they really have 7 extra mins of credits in the cinema roll, or if they’ve somehow edited the movie down a bit. I’ll probably never know.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Or maybe they play the film at an increased speed…I skimmed this thread with only one eye open as I was afraid of seeing open spoilers (but people seem to be behaving well on that front, thanks
Consensus seems to be this is worth watching and as it’s shown up on a streaming service over here I’ll give it a go. Interestingly the cinematic release is listed as having a 2h43min duration but my friendly local streaming service has it up as a 2h 36min title. I wonder if they really have 7 extra mins of credits in the cinema roll, or if they’ve somehow edited the movie down a bit. I’ll probably never know.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
They do. Cinema is 24fps while PAL TV's are 25
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
This appears to be the right answer…. I did the maths
2hrs 43 is 2.72 hrs.
2.72 x 24/25 = 2.61 hours
0.61 hours is 36.6 mins
So a 2hr 43 mins film played at 25/24 speed will run to 2 hours 36. All the action scenes are gonna be 25/24ths more exciting I’ll wager!
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
of course it's the right answer! No need for checking ya cheeky cunt
Reno
The In Kraut
PAL was an analogue format which went the way of the dodo when digital formats became the new standard a decade ago (DVB-T in Europe). PAL speedup happened when NTSC (used in the US) content got converted to PAL (used in the UK/Europe). Some British broadcasters still show old conversions with PAL speedup, but No Time to Die is a new film which never got converted into an analogue standard, so it can't suffer PAL speedup. Whatever streaming service this is, it's more likely they made a mistake than the film being shown with PAL speedup. Or they cut it.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
I don’t live in the US but whenever I’ve visited in the old days before the advent of HD and whatnot, it was remarkable how amazingly shit NTSC looked compared to PAL in Europe, even within the constraints of SD television.
Reno
The In Kraut
PAL had higher resolution and was technically superior.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
it is bizarre, and I totally agree it shouldn't happen, but it is also still quite commonplace.
Just looking at amazon and their streams all have the right length, but in five of the top 10 best selling blu-rays (that are also on prime) five of them are 4% shorter: bond; spiderman; scream; sing 2 & ghostbusters. Tis madness.
No way is a streaming (or blu-ray manufacturer) service cutting 7 minutes of the Bond movie without anyone noticing.
Reno
The In Kraut
The information on Amazon is far from reliable and many of the product description of Blu-rays get ported from the DVDs, which still were encoded in PAL or NTSC. Same for the reviews, you want to find out about the picture quality or extras of the Blu-ray and you get nothing but customer reviews of the DVD.
I don't know what streaming service "over here" MrCurry was referring to, but the Bond movies have often been cut to get a lower rating for broadcasting and cinema releases. It's more likely a mistake though.
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T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
The difference in quality was even more noticeable when watching daytime TV or current affairs/ news. We all notice the lower resolution when watching a BBC news clip from the late 90s compared to one nowadays. But an American counterpart news clip from even as recently as the early 2000s looks so shit by comparison it might have as well been shot on a Sony camcorder.
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
Gave this a watch last night. Really good I thought - definely a “proper bond movie” which ticked all the boxes and seemed to belong to the franchise in a way some of the modern bond movies haven’t. Of course some of it was quite silly, but even that is in the finest traditions of Bond Movies.
I assume the next movie will reveal how Bond somehow escaped being killed by the missiles, perhaps jumping down some hole into an inner bunker, etc.. I doubt they want to continue the franchise with just the ghost of Bond to play the lead role. Although since Blofeld and Leiter also bought it, perhaps they will set the next movie in the afterlife? 
ska invita
back on the other side
i watched it a couple of weeks back -
i thought the action sequences were of a really high quality - i think the highlight was the land rovers in the woods bit
beautifully shot film
what i find jarring is the way these films try to mix gravitas and serious, emotional storylines with ridiculous Bond nonsense. so yeah the overall story did zero for me but action sequences were all great (apart from the Cuba one which was so OTT and unrealistic that my brain switched off)
stereotypical eastern european scientist character was offensive to me - and also his repeated appearances made no sense whatsoever - but these are films where if you stop and ask any questions theres never a good answer so best not to ask.
Good action but its a load of auld rubbish really
i thought the action sequences were of a really high quality - i think the highlight was the land rovers in the woods bit
beautifully shot film
what i find jarring is the way these films try to mix gravitas and serious, emotional storylines with ridiculous Bond nonsense. so yeah the overall story did zero for me but action sequences were all great (apart from the Cuba one which was so OTT and unrealistic that my brain switched off)
stereotypical eastern european scientist character was offensive to me - and also his repeated appearances made no sense whatsoever - but these are films where if you stop and ask any questions theres never a good answer so best not to ask.
Good action but its a load of auld rubbish really
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skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Yeah agree with that. The comedy Russian baddie and Cuba bit were silly. Cuba was all very obviously shot on a stage and the attractive sidekick a little bit cliched but other moments made up for it. As a series of films, Skyfall, Spectre and No Time To Die all hold up as among the best Bond films for me and I prefer them to most other ones that came before.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Have been continuing with my old-fashioned boxset and am now 10 films in. Just watching Jaws biting people at the Pyramids in Egypt in The Spy Who Loved Me, which amazingly I don’t think I’d seen before.
The worst so far has been The Man With The Golden Gun. I had forgotten how boring and plotless Bond films can be, particularly in the Roger Moore sequence of films. They seem to have kind of lost their way post-Diamonds Are Forever - repeating stunts, trying to capture the zeitgeist by making a Bond Blaxploitation movie in Live & Let Die and then having pointlessly shoehorned-in martial arts sequences in The Man With The Golden Gun as Bruce Lee was at the height of his fame. They also rehashed minor characters for no particular good reason - the racist cop from Live & Let Die is on holiday in Hong Kong and Bangkok in Golden Gun, except this time he’s racist towards the Chinese and the Thais.
The worst so far has been The Man With The Golden Gun. I had forgotten how boring and plotless Bond films can be, particularly in the Roger Moore sequence of films. They seem to have kind of lost their way post-Diamonds Are Forever - repeating stunts, trying to capture the zeitgeist by making a Bond Blaxploitation movie in Live & Let Die and then having pointlessly shoehorned-in martial arts sequences in The Man With The Golden Gun as Bruce Lee was at the height of his fame. They also rehashed minor characters for no particular good reason - the racist cop from Live & Let Die is on holiday in Hong Kong and Bangkok in Golden Gun, except this time he’s racist towards the Chinese and the Thais.
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DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Absolutely agree - as a kid I kinda liked the whole gun thing, and the hall of mirrors climax, but when I Partridged, it was just tedious.
Whereas I really enjoyed A View To A Kill - stupid, but everyone seemed committed.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
We’re of a similar age I think. I also loved A View To A Kill, but as I heard on a podcast recently, it’s many of us’ favourite cos it was one of the most anticipated. Felt an age waiting for it.
Elpenor
a clown’s heart and a mandolin
I have to admit I’ve got a soft spot for the early Moore films - they’re definitely a product of their time eg JW Pepper and the blaxploitation / kung fu themes but they’re also a lot of fun - and the themes make them an interesting snapshot of the time.
Live and Let Die and The Spy Who Loved Me are both in my top 5. TMWTGG which gets a poor rap I still like because I’ve been to the island it was filmed on and I love Christopher Lee camping it up as Scaramanga. Don’t like the later Moore ones as much and never liked A View To A Kill though for a lot of people that’s right up there with the best.
Agent XXX is for me the most attractive of the Bond Girls, (just ahead of Solitaire) - Ringo was definitely punching - hmm maybe that’s why I like both those films
I’ve said before but for me the films are at their most fun in this era and that’s what I come to a Bond film for.
Live and Let Die and The Spy Who Loved Me are both in my top 5. TMWTGG which gets a poor rap I still like because I’ve been to the island it was filmed on and I love Christopher Lee camping it up as Scaramanga. Don’t like the later Moore ones as much and never liked A View To A Kill though for a lot of people that’s right up there with the best.
Agent XXX is for me the most attractive of the Bond Girls, (just ahead of Solitaire) - Ringo was definitely punching - hmm maybe that’s why I like both those films
I’ve said before but for me the films are at their most fun in this era and that’s what I come to a Bond film for.
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