The most working-class anarchist group is...
- Thread starter ernestolynch
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redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I've already asked him twice but he doesn't seem to want to let us know.montevideo said:
montevideo
New Member
catch said:
i'd say coalition of skaterpunks, environmentalists, student types with a moral conscience. People who meet at kickstart or the basement or MERCi centre (pronounced "murky"). Maybe some hippie punk cast-off's from the okasional cafe & diehard homocult throwbacks. And probably the do summat collective too.
The iwca thing was because their wrath & anger was directed at The Council & its failings.
montevideo said:
Soap-dodgers you mean?
Thumper Browne
Big Wheel Up
LLETSA said:
Now that's what I call making headway!
See you are sooooooooo full of SHIT, there you was yesterday, saying that !!ANARCHY!! was dead cos no-ones ever heard of !!!ANARCHY!!! in the working classes and now you're here TOTALLLLY contraDICKting yourself. See those FUCKING proles love ME AS THEIR GOD!
THEY will cast THEIR dirty soap dodged bodies down before MY sk8board and low they will HOLD ALOFT a BLACK bandana (you know the nice one with the SKULLS!!!! on it) and low they will BLOW MY COCK. For it is written.
THUMPER
THUMPER
THUMPER
THUMPER
HEAR THEM ROAR!!!! THEY ARE MY PEOPLE AND THEY ADORE ME!!!!!!
The Black Hand
Unclean
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLETSA
Many TV appearances? And so? The same could be said for Les Dennis. I think you'd find that those TV appearances confirmed you in the eyes of the audience as what you were already perceived as (through your own efforts) by the tiny numbers who already knew of you - a novelty act.
THIS IS GIBBERISH...
In my experience the small number of people who ever came across it (to them Class War was merely stickers on a lamp post or graffiti on a wall) thought that Class War material was sometimes funny, and compared to the po-faced left it probably was. Nobody outside your own circle ever took it seriously as any kind of guide to action, however.
Durrr, whoever said a sticker could be a guide to action dimwit? As I have already said class consciousness is a process, there are no QUICK FIxes and any know it all lefties who pretend they have an answer ARE LIARS... and your last sentence above is complete bollox, Class War was used as a symbol of resistance for many, note the way that people gravitated to the CLass War contingent on the miners huge demo in autumn 1992, and likewise during the poll tax anniversary march... that's not including stickers that were and are being put in many provocative places such as police cars, on prison wings, and on vandalised property during riots etc
The whole approach Class War used to take towards the working class was fundamentally patronising (this was to some extent true of most anarchist groups I used to come across). To assume that most working people share your carefully cultivated 'rebel' poses and took seriously the juvenile 'fuck this, fuck that, fuck the other' tone of your propaganda can be described as nothing else.
AND FUCK YOU But seriously, Class War circulation grew in prisons approx 2000% (about a dozen to over 200) in one year of prison organising in the mid 1990s... a class composition that spits on you and yours and proves that working class people liked Class War... It is a take on working class people and their culture that you obviously have no comprehension nor knowledge of.
'Starbucks Fuck Off'? Is that the sound of empires tumbling? Oh no, it's just next door putting the bin out.
Do you think working people are fucking daft or what?
Are you going to reply to the above points 'Lettsa start a waste of time irrelevant thread'...??
Originally Posted by LLETSA
Many TV appearances? And so? The same could be said for Les Dennis. I think you'd find that those TV appearances confirmed you in the eyes of the audience as what you were already perceived as (through your own efforts) by the tiny numbers who already knew of you - a novelty act.
THIS IS GIBBERISH...
In my experience the small number of people who ever came across it (to them Class War was merely stickers on a lamp post or graffiti on a wall) thought that Class War material was sometimes funny, and compared to the po-faced left it probably was. Nobody outside your own circle ever took it seriously as any kind of guide to action, however.
Durrr, whoever said a sticker could be a guide to action dimwit? As I have already said class consciousness is a process, there are no QUICK FIxes and any know it all lefties who pretend they have an answer ARE LIARS... and your last sentence above is complete bollox, Class War was used as a symbol of resistance for many, note the way that people gravitated to the CLass War contingent on the miners huge demo in autumn 1992, and likewise during the poll tax anniversary march... that's not including stickers that were and are being put in many provocative places such as police cars, on prison wings, and on vandalised property during riots etc
The whole approach Class War used to take towards the working class was fundamentally patronising (this was to some extent true of most anarchist groups I used to come across). To assume that most working people share your carefully cultivated 'rebel' poses and took seriously the juvenile 'fuck this, fuck that, fuck the other' tone of your propaganda can be described as nothing else.
AND FUCK YOU But seriously, Class War circulation grew in prisons approx 2000% (about a dozen to over 200) in one year of prison organising in the mid 1990s... a class composition that spits on you and yours and proves that working class people liked Class War... It is a take on working class people and their culture that you obviously have no comprehension nor knowledge of.
'Starbucks Fuck Off'? Is that the sound of empires tumbling? Oh no, it's just next door putting the bin out.
Do you think working people are fucking daft or what?
Attica said:No - i think you are an arsehole.
Are you going to reply to the above points 'Lettsa start a waste of time irrelevant thread'...??
montevideo
New Member
here's the wombles 'position' on violence on demonstrations (apologies for length):
"The main function, deliberate or not, of the dilemma "violence"/"non-violence" is to create a new field of critique, a new ideological battlefield where everyone (journalists, politicians, protestors etc) talk about; a new object for our attention is born, which marginalises the most important aspect of every demo - the social struggle (as a whole entity) against the capitalist, authoritarian system (as a whole entity).
Both the "never violent"/"always violent" positions seek a symbolic & material impact during the demo; yet, in the present conditions of the broader social struggle, the expectations of a material impact are usually low. Rather, under the spectacular mechanisms of the media, a symbolic impact is perceived as more possible. The latter possibility can drive the two positions to be used merely for spectacular goals.
The "always violence" position uses violence as the only means to symbolise the confrontation with the powers of the state & capital, to symbolise the power of social struggle. Thus violence becomes a self-goal & it is not treated as another means of the broader social struggle.
The "never violent" position achieves a small symbolic impact by being "morally legitimate", by being compliant with the social value of "peacefulness". A much greater symbolic impact is achieved though, if the police attack; then the non-violent crowd symbolises "the powerless society", "the victim", & reveals the violent nature of the state. Under such conditions, the moral power of "being a victim" is used to gain sympathy of the "public opinion".
Both the "never violent"/"always violent" positions, when they become a repeated reality, drive to easily predicted demos. They create well-established social expectations for the form & outcome of the demos, & stereotypical patterns of crowd action by the members of the demos.
Our intentions, as anarchists/anti-authoritarians, should not be fixated on any dogmatic & simplistic role - "always violent"/"never violent". Rather, we should try to make a coherent analysis of the broader social context so as to identify the potential role of an active confrontation at a demo. The most important thing is to project a clear social-political meaning to the demo, whether we confront or not; a meaning connected with the broader social struggle against state & capital."
"The main function, deliberate or not, of the dilemma "violence"/"non-violence" is to create a new field of critique, a new ideological battlefield where everyone (journalists, politicians, protestors etc) talk about; a new object for our attention is born, which marginalises the most important aspect of every demo - the social struggle (as a whole entity) against the capitalist, authoritarian system (as a whole entity).
Both the "never violent"/"always violent" positions seek a symbolic & material impact during the demo; yet, in the present conditions of the broader social struggle, the expectations of a material impact are usually low. Rather, under the spectacular mechanisms of the media, a symbolic impact is perceived as more possible. The latter possibility can drive the two positions to be used merely for spectacular goals.
The "always violence" position uses violence as the only means to symbolise the confrontation with the powers of the state & capital, to symbolise the power of social struggle. Thus violence becomes a self-goal & it is not treated as another means of the broader social struggle.
The "never violent" position achieves a small symbolic impact by being "morally legitimate", by being compliant with the social value of "peacefulness". A much greater symbolic impact is achieved though, if the police attack; then the non-violent crowd symbolises "the powerless society", "the victim", & reveals the violent nature of the state. Under such conditions, the moral power of "being a victim" is used to gain sympathy of the "public opinion".
Both the "never violent"/"always violent" positions, when they become a repeated reality, drive to easily predicted demos. They create well-established social expectations for the form & outcome of the demos, & stereotypical patterns of crowd action by the members of the demos.
Our intentions, as anarchists/anti-authoritarians, should not be fixated on any dogmatic & simplistic role - "always violent"/"never violent". Rather, we should try to make a coherent analysis of the broader social context so as to identify the potential role of an active confrontation at a demo. The most important thing is to project a clear social-political meaning to the demo, whether we confront or not; a meaning connected with the broader social struggle against state & capital."
Attica said:
Seeing as you originally posted it up in a way that made it impossible - at least to somebody with my limited computer knowledge - to bring it up in my reply so as to make it obvious which post I was addressing, I left it for a while. A line of angry revolutionaries to address, as you might have seen.
Actually that's balls. In truth, I was cringing before your erudite demolition of me. I didn't sleep a wink last night.
Hail the revolt of the spiky tops!
Thumper Browne said:
Now that's what I call making headway!
See you are sooooooooo full of SHIT, there you was yesterday, saying that !!ANARCHY!! was dead cos no-ones ever heard of !!!ANARCHY!!! in the working classes and now you're here TOTALLLLY contraDICKting yourself. See those FUCKING proles love ME AS THEIR GOD!
THEY will cast THEIR dirty soap dodged bodies down before MY sk8board and low they will HOLD ALOFT a BLACK bandana (you know the nice one with the SKULLS!!!! on it) and low they will BLOW MY COCK. For it is written.
THUMPER
THUMPER
THUMPER
THUMPER
HEAR THEM ROAR!!!! THEY ARE MY PEOPLE AND THEY ADORE ME!!!!!!
Ricky Gervais can sleep easy.
Thumper Browne
Big Wheel Up
LLETSA said:
Why do you persist with the stereotypes?
Who wears spiky tops
Thumper Browne
Big Wheel Up
LLETSA said:
First off, its not helpful to any discussion to talk in terms of stereotypes. It's like quoting from fiction to support arguments about real life.
Secondly, it makes you look like a cunt.
Give up this ghost and comic book capers 
Thumper Browne
Big Wheel Up
*washes hands*
montevideo said:
Sorry I had to work till 8.00 clock last night, watched the Chelsea game and am still at work, now so no time to reply at all. However by your friends you shall be known.
from the enrager boards
From Manchester network news bulletin
Manchester Social Forum and Manchester Anarchists | 27.04.2004 17:44 | Manchester
"The new gardens have a sense of emptiness. No matter which way you look,
you can't get away from the concrete wall".
We are meeting up in Piccadilly at 11.45. We have Manchester Samba band who are coming to play for us (thanks) and we hope to have a giant teapot, cup and saucer with food to give away for free and popcorn. Its a mad teaparty for a mad world. Come dressed as madly as possible at short notice!! Its a fluffy event, and we hope to have interesting and decorative things for children to do. There shouldn't be any problem with the police because they gatecrashed a meeting so they know about it.
The serious political bit is that is Mayday and we are angry about the rip-off of public space in Manchester. (thats Sat May 1st, btw, NOT Bank Holiday Monday).
from Manchester Indie Media News
From IndyMedia Manchester
In addition on enrager we have manc anarchists supporting the 'critical mass'- a monthly bike ride against the car, "come with bikes, skateboards or rollerskates"
or Manchester street olympics - "reclaiming public spaces, putting two fingers up to corporate Manchester"
So I would suggest these are the tell tale signs of activity so so similar to the fake 100 days site. Anarchy in the UK? Either they are mistaken that this is anarchism or you are.If they are right then its no wonder that anarchism isn't ever considered as an option by the working class. If you are right then you had better either reclaim the brand name or call yourself something else. Will the 'real ' anarchists stand up please?
montevideo
New Member
Chuck Wilson said:
no mate, not good enough. What tell tale signs on the website denotes it an anarchist one? So far you've giving nothing, not one tell tale sign from that website that could give away the fact that it was 'the anarchists' who did it.
All the examples you've quoted above make absolutely no reference to this website or its content.
You are a lair.
Now it may be that anarchists are indeed responsible (& more power to them) but nothing, nothing from that website betrays the fact.
You are a liar.
montevideo said:
Pants on fire! Let's not get into name calling monty, it simply doesn't make you look big or even clever. You know as well as I do that the list of comical activities that that Manchester anarchists posted are in the same vein as that one the site.And the question you keep side stepping ( and not surprisingly) is , is this what anarchism is all about? More importantly for those of us who don't come across anarchists very often in real life is are we supposed to take this as a serious contribution to pro working class politics? You say more power to them , I say leave the studio.
You can take the Real Anarchists with their skateboarders against the car,the 'fluffy' picnic with free popcorn on MayDay reclaiming open spaces, the street olympics against the corporatism of the city centre etc or those that who wish to remain annoymous who are into skateboarders against car pollution, anti corporatism of the city centre and want to reclaim the open spaces. Same trick same trade in my opinion.
If you are looking for an anarchist group to publicly take responsibility both you and I know that this is unlikely to happen so why invent that as a possibility?
Attica said:
I never said that you think stickers are a guide to action. What I said was that the tiny number of non-politicos I've come across who had heard about Class War (and this fifteen or more years ago) knew of the organisation only from stickers on a lamp post and the occasional graffiti that made already run-down areas look even worse. They knew nothing about what they were actually supposed to stand for, even after the odd press article and the telly programmes you refer to. They were amused by the comic book nature of their propaganda in the same way that they might be amused by Viz. 'Fuck this and fuck that, angry, angry, angry!': this reveals an understanding of the working class mentality that might have been displayed by an art school punk band circa 1977, and lays bare a fundamental misunderstanding of the priorities of the average working class person. Far from considering Class War a serious political force, this form of propaganda ensured that they were taken even less seriously than the Socialist Worker sellers who occasionally turned up outside our workplaces and so on. In fact I didn't meet a single non-politico who assumed that Class War was actually trying to be taken seriously; as I said, they were, in my experience, viewed as a novelty act: sometimes mildly funny as long as they weren't on too long.
The fact that some prisoners liked Class War proves nothing. Prisoners are bored shitless and of course if somebody starts circulating something like Class War around jails, its contrived irreverence towards authority will go down well with some. What are you trying to say though? That having been inside somehow makes you more proletarian than anybody else? Never heard so much tosh in all me born days. That's the kind of patronising approach to the working class that I was talking about: of course to self-styled anti- authoritarians all prisoners are victims. Some may well be but I think you'll find that the average working class person will first of all consider what an individual has actually been put inside for and conclude that for some of them - the violent and anti-social element in particular-that's the best fucking place for them. Read all that stuff you've written again about 'a class composition that spits on you and yours'; hopefully you'll blush with embarrassment. Far from being an alternative to the condescending, middle class-dominated left you present just another form of condescension. No, in actual fact I've also heard this kind of thing from middle class Trots; it's just that you dressed it all up in comic book imagery.
'Stickers in provocative places such as police cars, on prison wings and on vandalised property during riots etc.' As I said, is that the sound of empires falling? Oh no it's just next door's kids playing football in the passage.
montevideo
New Member
Chuck Wilson said:
so 'the anarchists' didn't do it. Took our time getting there.
"se gli anarchici non se ne curano, la storia la faranno i loro nemici"
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
montevideo said:
If you have the same argument, but instead talk about the general libertarian activist scene (because there are very few overt UK anarchist groups) then Chuck's point make very good sense. Many of those Manchester people are my good friends, some would call themselves anarchists, some not. The point about anarchoid visibility to the general public, and the 'anti-100 days' as part of this, is still valid.
montevideo
New Member
Random said:
the argument was it was a website done by 'the anarchists'. Those are his words. All i wanted to know was how did he know it was done by 'the anarchists'. Fact is he didn't.
montevideo said:
Ma se gli attori non ci offriranno le loro testimonianze gli storici non potranno scrivere?
Can we have a link to this offending website please?
Great thread so far - I liked Chuck and LLETSA's posts from last night.
Great thread so far - I liked Chuck and LLETSA's posts from last night.
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