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The line between mental illness and personality

Idaho

blah blah blah
What is it? Is someone obsessive because they are mentally ill or because that's their personality? When does an antisocial trait become illness?

In the Wee and poo man wages war against supermarket thread some claimed he was a twat, and others that he was mentally ill. Is it a matter of whether he can be treated? Or just about the extremity of the trait?

And as an extension - is it moral to 'treat' personality traits as if they were mental illness?

I can't make up my mind on this. There seems to be so much of what makes up our behaviour, how weare treated. But yet this seems to remove a lot of responsibility from our actions.
 
I really don't know, but I shall be keeping an eye on this thread. I've known sweet, lovely people who are mentally ill and only hurt themselves (these people far, far more common I think), and I've known people who are mentally ill and take it out on the world. Like I say, I don't know.
 
I really don't know, but I shall be keeping an eye on this thread. I've known sweet, lovely people who are mentally ill and only hurt themselves, and I've known people who are mentally ill and take it out on the world. Like I say, I don't know.

How about people who are a bit annoying, or don't listen to what other people say? Could these be seen as mild and treatable mental illnesses?
 
So you are saying there is no line between the two, or you don't know, so would rather simplify the issue into a statement of blandness?

No. I am saying you can be mentally ill and still act like a dickhead. Similarly you can be mentally ill and be a perfectly nice person.

Where in the reports does it state that he is mentally ill, I can't see it? Thanks.
 
How about people who are a bit annoying, or don't listen to what other people say? Could these be seen as mild and treatable mental illnesses?

it depends.
sometimes they're just idiots :)
sometimes there's an underlying issue - autism/aspergers/all that spectrum (if that counts as a mental illness? again the boundaries blur for me and i've not thought it through properly). plus other stuff...

hmm.

and treatable - surely it's a 'choice' thing.. if the 'afflicted' :hmm: person is fine and dandy with their life, why change it? if they're just a wee bit irritating, where's the harm? if you don't like 'em, don't speak to 'em.
 
i thought the same as pip - wondered if you was having a go indirectly at anyone on the boards.
i can think of a few people it would apply to (not on this thread :D)
 
:confused: eh?

A sly dig by who against whom?

Okay, never mind :)

Surely annoying is subjective? The diagnostic criteria for specific mental illnesses is pretty unambiguous I think, it can't really be based on vague impressions, or a couple of minor personality traits.
 
No. I am saying you can be mentally ill and still act like a dickhead. Similarly you can be mentally ill and be a perfectly nice person.

Where in the reports does it state that he is mentally ill, I can't see it? Thanks.

But when does being a dickhead become mental illness? If I take a dislike to you I might express my dislike in a number of ways:

- Ignore you
- tell you I dislike you once then ignore you
- Keep telling you I dislike you
- bitch about you to all your friends
- harrass and stalk you
- attack you
- murder you

Of course it all depends on what you have done to earn this dislike as to what is an overreaction. But all of these are actions could potentially be called mental illness, and all could be seen as being a nasty person.
 
What is it? Is someone obsessive because they are mentally ill or because that's their personality? When does an antisocial trait become illness?

In the Wee and poo man wages war against supermarket thread some claimed he was a twat, and others that he was mentally ill. Is it a matter of whether he can be treated? Or just about the extremity of the trait?

And as an extension - is it moral to 'treat' personality traits as if they were mental illness?

I can't make up my mind on this. There seems to be so much of what makes up our behaviour, how weare treated. But yet this seems to remove a lot of responsibility from our actions.

I see a personality as a collection of experiences and interpretations, and the expression of these.
I don't see it as fixed, and I see character traits as neutral, which can turn either good or bad, depending on the experiences, the time of these experiences, and the aftermath/outcome of those.

In my limited knowledge on this subject, What makes things go bad, or good, is our experiences, and how we handle them, in the formative years, when our basic personality structure is forming for the first time.
Traits imprinted for the first time, are not necessarily fixed, but are more complicated to change if they are pathological.

Even if we have bad experiences, at this time, it dosen't mean we will turn bad. We may have a bad experience, then we may receive support enough for us to heal, and to grow from this experience.

I will wager that the wee and poo man, probably had some pretty deep disturbances in his life, which he has not yet come to terms with. The extreme responses indicate this.
I don't know the reason why he perceived these companies deserve a cocktail of his own liquidised excreta.
I know we can all experience frustration and dissappointment at various ways we perceive our relationship with these types of companies in our own lives.
I am assuming that wee and poo man has felt some frustration and dissappointment with these companies, and the wee and poo is how he is expressing it.
The problems lie with the way he has dealt with these, and they way he felt about whatever triggered this reaction in him.
It is an extreme and bizzare way to handle negativity, and whatever his motioves were, the very extremeness and bizzareness of it, is what tells me, all is not well in the emotional life of Mr Wee & Poo man.

Mental illness is, in a way, a separate thing from emotional/psychological illness.
OK some mental illness is has pathological emotional and psychologcal causes, but what of the mental illnesses that have other causes?

As I dont know the history of Mr wee and poo man, I would say there is emotional disturbance, from what I can see, and as to metnal disturbance, that's probably a decision for his psych services team.
 
I really don't know, but I shall be keeping an eye on this thread. I've known sweet, lovely people who are mentally ill and only hurt themselves (these people far, far more common I think), and I've known people who are mentally ill and take it out on the world. Like I say, I don't know.

I think those who take out their shit on themselves, internalize negativity, and those who take it out on the world, externalize negativity.

I've known non mentally ill internalize and hurt themselves, but I've also known non mentally ill exernalize and victimize others.
Ditto for mentally ill.
 
From what I learned in my intro Psych class, a doctor or psychologist should exercise caution in making a mental health diagnosis and only really make it if there is good reason for thinking the behavior is pathological.

I tried googling to see if I could find the criteria that I learned but can't seem to find it written concisely. The criteria I remember as being the most important in the grey-area cases are:

Whether or not the patient is unable to meet their responsibilities because of the disorder, whether or not the disorder causes considerable distress to the patient, whether or not the disorder causes considerable distress to others.

There are other more obvious diagnostic criteria for the different kinds of mental illness, but those are the ones I remember for people who just seem to be acting like arseholes.

I don't think that you necessarily need to seperate mental illness from arsehole behavior. Regardless of the cause, we are all ultimately responsible for our actions. A mental health diagnosis might give you a better shot and changing the behavior though.
 
There is no line.

Some mental illnesses have an effect on mood and personality, others do not.

Personality, as in the personality someone has does not need to be linked to mental illness at all. People just do have personality traits, all people.
 
People are nice/nasty irrespective of their psychological balance IME.

I'd say that someone who was a corprophiliac had some issues TBH - disregarding faeces and getting turned on by playing in them?
 
not so much a line, but the level of effect.

To put it (mental illness) in figures I think-

5% of the population are raving nutters.

The other 50% are just keeping themselves under control or managing their lives best they can day to day. This is the gray area of personality trait 'v' mental illness.

The other 45% are totally 'normal' what ever that is. With no family or clinical evidence of mental illness.
 
I think you are all assuming that personality and mental illness are distinct but interact. What I am saying is that some extremes of personality could be seen as mental illness and some mild mental illness is merely personality.

I am quite obsessive about certain things. I feel fairly compelled to be so obsessive. It's both my personality and could be seen as a very mild compulsive disorder.
 
Both people who are mentally ill and people who are well have personalities.

Everybody has a personality.
 
What is it? Is someone obsessive because they are mentally ill or because that's their personality? When does an antisocial trait become illness?

In the Wee and poo man wages war against supermarket thread some claimed he was a twat, and others that he was mentally ill. Is it a matter of whether he can be treated? Or just about the extremity of the trait?

And as an extension - is it moral to 'treat' personality traits as if they were mental illness?

I can't make up my mind on this. There seems to be so much of what makes up our behaviour, how weare treated. But yet this seems to remove a lot of responsibility from our actions.

Great point

I know a bloke who is the most charming bloke you'd meet

but really he is a cheating, slag, manipulative, shallow, woman beating, lying, selfish, narcisisstic, violent psycho.

But he gets away with it, by lying and charming his way out of situations.

I often wonder if this bloke is actually mantally ill
 
I think personality traits are classed as disorders if they significantly spoil the life of the person or other people.

Not that these things are applied in a very consistent manner, and there has been a trend over time to bring more and more personality issues into the realm of psychiatric diagnosis. Partly due to a reduction in the stigma about these things, it can seem that these days more people come to believe they are abnormal, want to know whats wrong with them, want a label and explanation for their woes, and sometimes the promise of a quick fix.

And I guess its also true that extreme personality traits that are harnessed to bring about personal success of some kind , are far less likely to be labelled in a negative way. A crude example would be psychopaths that are successful business people.
 
Great point

I know a bloke who is the most charming bloke you'd meet

but really he is a cheating, slag, manipulative, shallow, woman beating, lying, selfish, narcisisstic, violent psycho.

But he gets away with it, by lying and charming his way out of situations.

I often wonder if this bloke is actually mantally ill
Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder or one of its related types to me
 
The whole question rests on how you define 'mentally ill'.

And it seems to me most people here are talking about either schizo/delusional disorders or personality disorders, all of which - especially the latter - are mostly down to care or lack of in a child's early years, AFAIK like
 
I've known non mentally ill internalize and hurt themselves, but I've also known non mentally ill exernalize and victimize others.
Ditto for mentally ill.
This. To paraphrase, you don't need to be mentally ill to be a total shit and you don't need to be sane to be luvverly.
 
The whole question rests on how you define 'mentally ill'.

Well quite. Most on this thread seem to be thinking of mental illness as a given. Like it is an obvious and discreet state of being obviously removed from the expression of someone's personality.

And it seems to me most people here are talking about either schizo/delusional disorders or personality disorders, all of which - especially the latter - are mostly down to care or lack of in a child's early years, AFAIK like

When did you become the psychology expert? :D
 
I think personality traits are classed as disorders if they significantly spoil the life of the person or other people.

They are classed as disorders if they are presented to a psychologist for definition and treatment.
 
Great point

I know a bloke who is the most charming bloke you'd meet

but really he is a cheating, slag, manipulative, shallow, woman beating, lying, selfish, narcisisstic, violent psycho.

But he gets away with it, by lying and charming his way out of situations.

I often wonder if this bloke is actually mantally ill

Google the words "sociopath" "psychopath" & "narcissistic" and behold the similarities in what you find, with your post.

I did a couple of psychology courses at college, and we touched upon a term called "affectionless psychopathy". All psychology is theories if you ask me, but it was interesting and the course kept me out the pub at the time.
:)It was the term John Bowlby coined for children with poor attachments to their primary caregivers in the early years.

*e2a Hervey Cleckley - Dr. Hervey Milton Cleckley (1903 - January 28, 1984) was an American psychiatrist and pioneer in the field of psychopathy. His book, The Mask of Sanity, originally published in 1941, provided the most influential clinical description of psychopathy in the 20th Century. The term "mask of sanity" derived from Cleckley's observations that, unlike people with major mental disorders, a "psychopath" can appear to be normal and even engaging, while typically not suffering overtly from hallucinations or delusions.[1] However, the "mask" covered a concealed psychosis.[2]from here

I wanted that book, but it was one of those things I never had any money left for.
In this search, however, I found an online pdf copy. :) here if others are interested in the subject.

# forgot to say, for what it's worth, I think Mr Wee and Poo man is probably more psychotic than psychopathic, and has got to a severe obsessive state. Just a guess, like.
 
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