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The Left Failing Young Men (and how to reclaim the Left from liberals)

PTK said:
The left may be failing young men, but is it failing young women?
Does the original poster know, or are people who are openly women also a group of which he has no experience?
He has never knowingly met a gay man, but has he ever known a woman?
Click to expand...
The post is centered about young men here. You can do the post about if the Left is failing young women, though women are more liberal in these past couple of years based on the graphs.
 
Yugoslav said:
Young men are truly some worthy revolutionaries that want to be part of the left and carry a social revolution. For when the words of Marx, Engels, then later, Lenin echoed to the disillusioned men of Russia, they knew of their material conditions being shitty and thus have risen up against the Tsarist system and the liberal system that tried to "compromise". The fervor of such established the USSR but then one Machiavellian from Georgia came, struck it with lies, and managed to not only nearly cost the country in WW2 but also brought the sad aftermath post-mortem.

The West used this to rally against communism and wage this "crusade" against leftism ever since. But the days of McCarthy are far long gone, for progressive liberals are now on the march against socialism with their "fake socialism" in which they justify individualism, idealism, bourgeois democracy, welfare capitalism. Young men did not want that in the West. They wanted real socialism. But they were unheard of, or were persecuted under the assumption of "bigotry". Thus the young men, in betrayal, in dishonor, and distress and insecurity, went to the other side which appealed to them with convincing yet dangerous words. When this new generation became radicalized into reactionaries and not revolutionaries, the West did nothing about it and continued pushing the agenda of "bigotry", denying any rehabilitation and denying the responsibility to admit its negligence and realize on how the bourgeois divide and conquer strategy will result in a generation of chaos.

The only way to reclaim the Left from these liberal colonizers who are persecuting the real leftism (proletarian revolution, dictatorship of the proletariat, free healthcare, free education, paternalism, etc.), is to deny it ever existed in the Western World.
Click to expand...
It’s true that the modern Left must reckon with the challenges of reclaiming genuine leftist values in a society where liberalism often takes center stage. Young people with revolutionary potential are increasingly disillusioned by a system that offers social safety nets and limited reforms as "radical" solutions, while sidestepping the deeper structural change that could empower working people and dismantle oppressive hierarchies. These young people, inspired by figures like Marx and Lenin, are looking for a real, transformative vision of socialism that tackles systemic inequalities
 
Yugoslav said:
1. My point is that you want to be happy and the only way to do it is by smashing capitalism with revolution and not by liberal reform.
2. You will be happy when the profit motive of the elite is done with and you will be rewarded better money for your hard work.
3. Whatever you want to pursue, you will not only benefit yourself but the nation. Your pride is what the nation needs to prove its worth of an alternative against capitalism.
4. Reading a book about Marxist-Leninist theory as well as taking observations of the modern world will help you understand how the reality works.
5. No matter if you want individual striving in a capitalist system for there will always be a way for the rich elite to extract your "individual striving" and make you debted to them. IMF and World Bank are of no use for your upstart for you will be in eternal debt if you do that. College in the US is expensive. Tens of thousands of dollars every year wasted. What does the education system do then? What about the mass GDP of the USA? It can theoretically solve student debt but it doesn't want to because big rich men say "No" to that.

If you want to be a happy young man, then you must fight against the system that is depriving you of happiness, that is "Capitalism".
Click to expand...
You raise essential points that resonate with many young people today. There's a growing realization that the capitalist system, as it stands, isn’t delivering on its promises of happiness, equity, or genuine opportunity.

  1. Beyond Reform: Capitalism has demonstrated that, even with reforms, inequalities endure. Real happiness for the working class likely can’t be achieved within a system that prioritizes profit for the few over the wellbeing of the many. Revolutionary change, as you argue, might be the only way to create a system that genuinely serves everyone rather than just protecting corporate interests.
  2. Profit Motive vs. Wellbeing: The profit-driven nature of capitalism often leaves workers exploited and overworked, while corporate elites hoard the rewards. A society that values human labor equally and fairly would enable people to work without the fear of exploitation and with rewards that reflect the true value of their contribution. This isn’t just about financial stability—it's about dignity.
  3. Collective Pride and Purpose: A socialist society would foster pride in a way that capitalism often fails to do, uniting people in the shared goal of building a just society. Individual success wouldn't be just about personal gain but would contribute to the wellbeing of all, creating a sense of collective pride and purpose that benefits everyone.
  4. Education for Liberation: Studying Marxist-Leninist theory can be transformative. It helps people see the hidden structures of power that shape our lives and reveals how capitalism is designed to benefit a few at the expense of many. Pairing theory with observation of modern inequalities makes it clear that the system isn’t naturally fair or inevitable; it’s constructed to maintain the power of the elite.
  5. Debt and Entrapment: The current system keeps many trapped in cycles of debt, whether through student loans, medical bills, or rising living costs. Institutions like the IMF and World Bank reinforce these cycles globally, making it nearly impossible for entire countries to escape debt, let alone individuals. The U.S. education system, with its exorbitant costs, embodies this issue—students take on enormous debt in pursuit of an education that often leads them into precarious work rather than fulfilling careers.
In essence, capitalism promises opportunity but often delivers precarity. As you point out, real happiness might only be possible when people are free from the systems that keep them indebted and controlled. Fighting capitalism, therefore, becomes not just a political choice but a personal one—an act of claiming the right to a life defined by dignity, equality, and genuine happiness.
 
Yugoslav said:
Criticizing America has Marxist aspects to it.

They want to destroy real socialism.
Click to expand...
It’s interesting that you see criticism of America as linked to Marxism, but it’s also worth considering that critiquing the U.S. or its policies doesn't necessarily equate to Marxism—it’s often just a call for accountability and improvement. Many Americans, including those who might not identify as Marxists, raise valid criticisms because they see areas where the country falls short of its ideals, particularly around issues of inequality, healthcare, and education.

When it comes to “real socialism,” it’s true that mainstream American politics often misrepresent or even undermine genuine socialist ideas. Many U.S. leaders and media outlets frame socialism as a threat, equating it with authoritarianism rather than exploring its principles, like collective ownership and worker empowerment. As a result, what some Americans see as “socialism” is often watered down to mean moderate reforms or welfare programs, without challenging the underlying capitalist structure.

At the end of the day, criticism—whether it’s of America, capitalism, or global inequalities—can be an essential part of building a fairer society. It doesn’t have to be about tearing down but about pushing for a system that serves the people better. And maybe that’s what many critics, including some who draw from Marxist ideas, are ultimately trying to achieve.
 
bellaozzydog said:
You raise essential points that resonate with many young people today. There's a growing realization that the capitalist system, as it stands, isn’t delivering on its promises of happiness, equity, or genuine opportunity.

  1. Beyond Reform: Capitalism has demonstrated that, even with reforms, inequalities endure. Real happiness for the working class likely can’t be achieved within a system that prioritizes profit for the few over the wellbeing of the many. Revolutionary change, as you argue, might be the only way to create a system that genuinely serves everyone rather than just protecting corporate interests.
  2. Profit Motive vs. Wellbeing: The profit-driven nature of capitalism often leaves workers exploited and overworked, while corporate elites hoard the rewards. A society that values human labor equally and fairly would enable people to work without the fear of exploitation and with rewards that reflect the true value of their contribution. This isn’t just about financial stability—it's about dignity.
  3. Collective Pride and Purpose: A socialist society would foster pride in a way that capitalism often fails to do, uniting people in the shared goal of building a just society. Individual success wouldn't be just about personal gain but would contribute to the wellbeing of all, creating a sense of collective pride and purpose that benefits everyone.
  4. Education for Liberation: Studying Marxist-Leninist theory can be transformative. It helps people see the hidden structures of power that shape our lives and reveals how capitalism is designed to benefit a few at the expense of many. Pairing theory with observation of modern inequalities makes it clear that the system isn’t naturally fair or inevitable; it’s constructed to maintain the power of the elite.
  5. Debt and Entrapment: The current system keeps many trapped in cycles of debt, whether through student loans, medical bills, or rising living costs. Institutions like the IMF and World Bank reinforce these cycles globally, making it nearly impossible for entire countries to escape debt, let alone individuals. The U.S. education system, with its exorbitant costs, embodies this issue—students take on enormous debt in pursuit of an education that often leads them into precarious work rather than fulfilling careers.
In essence, capitalism promises opportunity but often delivers precarity. As you point out, real happiness might only be possible when people are free from the systems that keep them indebted and controlled. Fighting capitalism, therefore, becomes not just a political choice but a personal one—an act of claiming the right to a life defined by dignity, equality, and genuine happiness.
Click to expand...

Are you stuck offshore on a dry platform again?
 
From one of the OP's posts, which I didn't read, this stuck out: deceieves
and it was the only thing that made me pause for a second in the assumption that we are dealing with a chatbot.
But then, of course, they'd throw in the odd spelling mistake or grammatical error for verisimilitude.

Nevertheless, the OP is not very verisimilitudinous. Why are they still here?
 
The main company that offered Baby loans was called Rivers, and one day the original poster went to Rivers to ask for a Baby loan, but was refused. As he stood in the street outside, by the Rivers of Baby loan, there he wept, when he remembered Zion, which had never been known to refuse a loan, but had gone bust.

His friend Mary was luckier, and her boy child was born on Christmas Day.

He was pleased that he was able to be there to support her, as it was not a work day. “Hooray! Hooray! It’s a holi- holiday” he exclaimed when he heard that he due date was 25 December.
 
Your topic, "The Left Failing Young Men (and how to reclaim the Left from liberals)," touches on several important themes, including political ideology, generational challenges, and the dynamics of social movements. Here's a structured exploration of this subject:

Overview​

  1. Contextual Background:
    • Discuss the historical relationship between the left and young men, including movements that empowered them (e.g., labor rights, civil rights).
    • Outline the current state of young men within the left, highlighting concerns around alienation and disenfranchisement.
  2. Identifying the Problem:
    • Cultural Shifts: Examine how shifts in leftist rhetoric and priorities, particularly around gender and identity, may alienate young men.
    • Economic Challenges: Discuss how economic changes (like rising costs of living, job insecurity, and educational debt) disproportionately affect young men, contributing to feelings of failure or inadequacy.
    • Mental Health Issues: Address the rising mental health challenges among young men, potentially exacerbated by political and social narratives that overlook their experiences.
  3. The Role of Liberals:
    • Analyze how liberal ideologies may prioritize certain social issues at the expense of addressing the broader economic and social concerns faced by young men.
    • Discuss potential divides within the left between liberalism and more radical or socialist approaches, noting how this affects young men’s engagement.

Reclaiming the Left​

  1. Inclusivity and Representation:
    • Propose ways to make the left more inclusive of diverse experiences, particularly those of young men, without compromising on gender equality and social justice.
    • Encourage representation of young men in leadership positions within leftist movements to ensure their voices are heard.
  2. Addressing Economic Concerns:
    • Suggest policies that specifically target economic disparities affecting young men, such as job creation, affordable housing, and educational reforms.
    • Advocate for a renewed focus on working-class issues that resonate with young men, emphasizing the need for a strong social safety net.
  3. Cultural Reframing:
    • Propose a cultural shift within leftist movements to acknowledge and validate the struggles of young men, avoiding narratives that frame them solely as oppressors or beneficiaries of privilege.
    • Encourage dialogues that foster understanding across gender lines, addressing misconceptions and promoting solidarity.
  4. Mental Health and Support Systems:
    • Advocate for increased mental health resources and support tailored to young men, recognizing the unique pressures they face.
    • Promote community-building initiatives that offer safe spaces for young men to express their challenges and seek support.

Conclusion​

  • Summarize the importance of reclaiming the left to ensure it remains a broad, inclusive movement that genuinely represents all its constituents.
  • Emphasize the need for collaboration, understanding, and a return to core values of economic justice and solidarity to build a stronger, more effective leftist movement.

Further Considerations​

  • Engagement Strategies: Discuss how to engage young men in leftist movements through grassroots initiatives, community organizing, and educational programs.
  • Empathy and Dialogue: Highlight the importance of fostering empathetic dialogues within the left, encouraging a culture where all voices are valued and heard.
This structure provides a comprehensive framework to explore the challenges facing young men within leftist movements and offers actionable strategies for reclaiming a more inclusive and effective left.
 
PTK said:
Your topic, "The Left Failing Young Men (and how to reclaim the Left from liberals)," touches on several important themes, including political ideology, generational challenges, and the dynamics of social movements. Here's a structured exploration of this subject:

Overview​

  1. Contextual Background:
    • Discuss the historical relationship between the left and young men, including movements that empowered them (e.g., labor rights, civil rights).
    • Outline the current state of young men within the left, highlighting concerns around alienation and disenfranchisement.
  2. Identifying the Problem:
    • Cultural Shifts: Examine how shifts in leftist rhetoric and priorities, particularly around gender and identity, may alienate young men.
    • Economic Challenges: Discuss how economic changes (like rising costs of living, job insecurity, and educational debt) disproportionately affect young men, contributing to feelings of failure or inadequacy.
    • Mental Health Issues: Address the rising mental health challenges among young men, potentially exacerbated by political and social narratives that overlook their experiences.
  3. The Role of Liberals:
    • Analyze how liberal ideologies may prioritize certain social issues at the expense of addressing the broader economic and social concerns faced by young men.
    • Discuss potential divides within the left between liberalism and more radical or socialist approaches, noting how this affects young men’s engagement.

Reclaiming the Left​

  1. Inclusivity and Representation:
    • Propose ways to make the left more inclusive of diverse experiences, particularly those of young men, without compromising on gender equality and social justice.
    • Encourage representation of young men in leadership positions within leftist movements to ensure their voices are heard.
  2. Addressing Economic Concerns:
    • Suggest policies that specifically target economic disparities affecting young men, such as job creation, affordable housing, and educational reforms.
    • Advocate for a renewed focus on working-class issues that resonate with young men, emphasizing the need for a strong social safety net.
  3. Cultural Reframing:
    • Propose a cultural shift within leftist movements to acknowledge and validate the struggles of young men, avoiding narratives that frame them solely as oppressors or beneficiaries of privilege.
    • Encourage dialogues that foster understanding across gender lines, addressing misconceptions and promoting solidarity.
  4. Mental Health and Support Systems:
    • Advocate for increased mental health resources and support tailored to young men, recognizing the unique pressures they face.
    • Promote community-building initiatives that offer safe spaces for young men to express their challenges and seek support.

Conclusion​

  • Summarize the importance of reclaiming the left to ensure it remains a broad, inclusive movement that genuinely represents all its constituents.
  • Emphasize the need for collaboration, understanding, and a return to core values of economic justice and solidarity to build a stronger, more effective leftist movement.

Further Considerations​

  • Engagement Strategies: Discuss how to engage young men in leftist movements through grassroots initiatives, community organizing, and educational programs.
  • Empathy and Dialogue: Highlight the importance of fostering empathetic dialogues within the left, encouraging a culture where all voices are valued and heard.
This structure provides a comprehensive framework to explore the challenges facing young men within leftist movements and offers actionable strategies for reclaiming a more inclusive and effective left.
Click to expand...
Let’s get one thing straight: the Left and liberals aren’t failing young men; they’re actively undermining them. They’re so obsessed with identity politics, gender quotas, and coddling every grievance except those of the working-class man, that they’ve left young men behind. The Left used to stand for something — it was about jobs, stability, pride, and unity. Now? It’s a mess of liberal elites who talk down to everyone, pushing "social justice" while ignoring real issues like economic instability, job loss, and the crushing weight of student debt.

Look at the points you’re laying out here: “Inclusivity and Representation,” “Mental Health and Support Systems,” and “Economic Concerns.” It’s a joke. Liberals are too busy telling men that their problems don’t matter, or worse, that men are the problem. They push policies that prioritize superficial diversity and identity-driven tokenism, instead of working to secure jobs, stable housing, or a future worth fighting for.

You talk about “reclaiming the Left” as if it’s possible to work with these people — but reclaiming anything from the Left won’t work because they’ve shown they don’t care about working-class men. Liberals in power cater to big corporations and wealthy donors just as much as their so-called "opponents." They’ve sold out and betrayed any real values of justice or fairness.

If we want a movement that actually works for young men, we need something grounded in real values and practical results. Forget "cultural reframing" and pandering. It’s time to build something new, something that won’t bow to the liberal elites who look down on regular people and claim to know what’s best. The Left had its chance, and it blew it — now it's time for people to fight back, without them.








For the hard of thinking 😁
 
bellaozzydog said:
Let’s get one thing straight: the Left and liberals aren’t failing young men; they’re actively undermining them. They’re so obsessed with identity politics, gender quotas, and coddling every grievance except those of the working-class man, that they’ve left young men behind. The Left used to stand for something — it was about jobs, stability, pride, and unity. Now? It’s a mess of liberal elites who talk down to everyone, pushing "social justice" while ignoring real issues like economic instability, job loss, and the crushing weight of student debt.

Look at the points you’re laying out here: “Inclusivity and Representation,” “Mental Health and Support Systems,” and “Economic Concerns.” It’s a joke. Liberals are too busy telling men that their problems don’t matter, or worse, that men are the problem. They push policies that prioritize superficial diversity and identity-driven tokenism, instead of working to secure jobs, stable housing, or a future worth fighting for.

You talk about “reclaiming the Left” as if it’s possible to work with these people — but reclaiming anything from the Left won’t work because they’ve shown they don’t care about working-class men. Liberals in power cater to big corporations and wealthy donors just as much as their so-called "opponents." They’ve sold out and betrayed any real values of justice or fairness.

If we want a movement that actually works for young men, we need something grounded in real values and practical results. Forget "cultural reframing" and pandering. It’s time to build something new, something that won’t bow to the liberal elites who look down on regular people and claim to know what’s best. The Left had its chance, and it blew it — now it's time for people to fight back, without them.








For the hard of thinking 😁
Click to expand...

Here are several key arguments in favor of identity politics that challenge traditional Marxist views:

1. Recognition of Diverse Experiences​

Identity politics recognizes that individuals experience oppression differently based on their identities, such as race, gender, sexuality, and disability. Traditional Marxism often prioritizes class struggle and economic inequality, potentially overlooking how intersecting identities create unique forms of oppression. For instance, a Black woman may face both racial and gender discrimination that cannot be fully understood through a purely class-based analysis.

2. Intersectionality​

Identity politics is informed by the concept of intersectionality, which emphasizes that various forms of identity and social categorizations (like race, gender, and class) intersect to create distinct experiences of oppression. This approach expands the scope of social justice by acknowledging that individuals can belong to multiple marginalized groups, thus requiring a more nuanced understanding than traditional Marxist frameworks, which may simplify social dynamics to a binary of capitalist vs. proletariat.

3. Empowerment and Agency​

Identity politics empowers marginalized groups to articulate their own needs, narratives, and strategies for resistance. This self-advocacy is crucial in promoting social change and dismantling systemic oppression. Traditional Marxism, by focusing primarily on class, can sometimes overlook the importance of personal agency and identity in the struggle for justice and equality.

4. Cultural and Symbolic Dimensions of Oppression​

Identity politics addresses cultural and symbolic aspects of oppression that traditional Marxism might neglect. Issues such as representation, cultural appropriation, and the impact of stereotypes are crucial to understanding social power dynamics. These cultural dimensions are often integral to identity formation and community solidarity, thus requiring a broader analytical framework than class alone provides.

5. Challenging Economic Reductionism​

While traditional Marxism tends to reduce social issues to economic factors, identity politics argues that social hierarchies and injustices are not solely products of economic systems. By emphasizing the roles of identity, social norms, and cultural practices, identity politics challenges the notion that economic liberation alone will resolve all forms of oppression. For example, the feminist movement has shown that economic equality does not automatically lead to gender equality or the dismantling of patriarchy.

6. Building Alliances Across Differences​

Identity politics encourages solidarity among diverse groups by acknowledging and respecting their unique struggles. This approach fosters coalitions that can lead to broader social movements, transcending traditional class lines. While Marxism advocates for working-class unity, identity politics argues that true solidarity must also embrace and address the specific needs and histories of various marginalized identities.

7. Responding to Historical Injustices​

Identity politics often arises from a historical context of marginalization and oppression. Movements centered on racial, gender, and sexual identities seek to address past injustices and ensure that the voices of historically oppressed groups are heard and validated. Traditional Marxism can sometimes overlook the significance of these historical contexts, focusing primarily on contemporary class struggles.

8. Dynamic and Evolving Nature of Identity​

Identity is not static; it evolves with social and political changes. Identity politics reflects this dynamism by adapting to new understandings of identity and oppression. Traditional Marxism, which may rely on fixed categories of class struggle, can be less responsive to the changing landscape of social identities and the needs that arise from them.

Conclusion​

In defending identity politics against traditional Marxism, it is essential to highlight that the struggle for social justice is multifaceted. Identity politics broadens the lens through which we understand oppression, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and addressing diverse experiences. By doing so, it complements rather than contradicts the goals of social and economic justice that both perspectives ultimately seek to achieve. Emphasizing the interconnectedness of identities and experiences can lead to a more comprehensive and effective movement for social change.
 
PTK said:
Conclusion
In defending identity politics against traditional Marxism, it is essential to highlight that the struggle for social justice is multifaceted. Identity politics broadens the lens through which we understand oppression, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and addressing diverse experiences. By doing so, it complements rather than contradicts the goals of social and economic justice that both perspectives ultimately seek to achieve. Emphasizing the interconnectedness of identities and experiences can lead to a more comprehensive and effective movement for social change.
Click to expand...

 
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