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The job hunting support thread

Just found I have another interview with the council now on Tuesday! Now I have to find out what on earth that was for as yet again they have removed the bloody job description from the website. Didn't expect to get this one and had basically binned off the council after the last one.

Does seem odd to remove the entire job spec the day you tell people they have an interview.....
 
Just found I have another interview with the council now on Tuesday! Now I have to find out what on earth that was for as yet again they have removed the bloody job description from the website. Didn't expect to get this one and had basically binned off the council after the last one.

Does seem odd to remove the entire job spec the day you tell people they have an interview.....

i find it's fairly common for the job 'advert' and all that comes with it to disappear off websites once the closing date has passed.

hence the suggestion to save everything - you should be able to save a web page to PDF one way or another (the 'print' button then see if you've got something like 'save to PDF' is usual)

it's annoying to find something online, think it sounds good, then get to the bottom of the page and find the closing date was last week / month / year...
 
Can you ask them to send to you?
I have already, the hiring manager sent me an email while on leave to ensure I actually got it. Replied and asked for it all but no reply yet.There's an official one coming via teams and oracle apparently and it's in person. Last time they sent the official one Friday with a specific person to contact who got back quickly when I asked. I could actually find at least some info tho, thus one seems to be missing everywhere. Last time I found it on totaljobs (fuck knows why) and got at least the main bit without the attachments til they sent it all over.

Now hoping I got that and can do the same again, I've got chatgpt and copilot to give me a basic spec and nicked the standard council bits to add in. Got suggested questions and answers. Tho last time that was well off. Glad it's a Tuesday this time, extra work day if they don't answer today or tomorrow.

Its basically all my area, tho more slanted towards supplier relationship management. So that's my next task. Learn all the lingo, as public you get fuck all chance to build relationships since direct awards nearly set off nuclear alarms. Unless its a counsellor asking....
Managed to do this perfectly fine for councils before. Just more of a pain since its hardly wining and dining, all soft power stuff. Basically we spend xxx million, want some? Do what we want and we will all be nice about it. Sorry we can't guarantee shit and all your sales tactics are irrelevant as its a matrix scoring with multiple scorers.
 
gsv has asked ChatGPT about his CV and got some interesting feedback that he's going to apply
I was extremely sceptical but it seems to work fine so long as you give it the right instructions and definitely make sure the output is fine. It can do ATS scores against a linked job description and make suggested changes etc if you ask it properly. Apparently over 80 v the job description is usually a pass? It is a new skill to learn how to get the fucking thing to not just spit nonsense at you tho. Given enough operators and restrictions it works ridiculously well for summarising, matching skills and behaviours against any cv/cover letters you can throw at it and it basically can generate whatever based on that. It had me looking good enough to get the equivalent of my max earnings over a year ever for a 10 week contract into the final two. Just another tool to learn, also had some hard excel and DAX etc made easy by it. I know you do bid writing and I know a few in the public adjacent area who use it for generating initial templates or refining, with a real person with proper skills doing it afterwards of course as its basically unusable as is. Of course the more they do the more they can combine, linking a gov document as a regulatory barrier can help towards ensuring compliance etc.
 
Just found I have another interview with the council now on Tuesday! Now I have to find out what on earth that was for as yet again they have removed the bloody job description from the website. Didn't expect to get this one and had basically binned off the council after the last one.

Does seem odd to remove the entire job spec the day you tell people they have an interview.....
if you still have the URL of the advert page itself newme try sticking it into https://archive.ph/ and/or Wayback Machine which some people use as online bookmarking - if it's in either of those the associated docs can usually be downloaded from the archive. I've used this method to find old pdfs of manuals in the past.
 
if you still have the URL of the advert page itself newme try sticking it into https://archive.ph/ and/or Wayback Machine which some people use as online bookmarking - if it's in either of those the associated docs can usually be downloaded from the archive. I've used this method to find old pdfs of manuals in the past.
Yeh no results on achive, hadn't tried that one, wayback is no use either, bloody thing is using a oracle system and it seems to archive fuck all, tried google cache too and nothing. Even got a reply acknowledging I said yes to interview but no docs attached, which is, unhelpful, plus no follow up saying who to contact. Will find someone tomorrow even if its the default mailbox.

Apparently there is an extension for waybackmachine to cache everything you visit, think someone here said it. Did not have that when I applied and realising I still do not lol.

Supplier Relationship & Contract Specialist thats it if anyone can find anything, I am out of ideas.
 
if anyone can find anything

can find this from october 2023, but from where i'm sitting, looks like the same thing

glassdoor has this (although no 'attached documents' but does include a name / phone number

my cynical side wonders why they advertised in january and october last year, and again recently now - did they not manage to appoint then, or has someone quit that soon or what? i suppose it's a bit of a niche, and for most people who aren't already working there, it's going to mean moving house, so may not get many people applying. (as an aside, my local council have advertised about 3 times in the last couple of years for something i could do, but the way funding is, it's only been on a short term contract so i didn't go for it, and from what i gather, they didn't get anyone)

i have mixed feelings about procurement and that sort of thing. having worked in the more operational end of local authority, it sometimes feels like the main purpose of procurement people is to stop you getting anything done...

but having said that, local authorities used to have at least a reputation for dodgy deals down the golf club / lodge / whatever (and in some cases with a brown envelope involved), so there's an element of keeping stuff objective and transparent and being able to prove you're not doing a dodgy deal with the ratepayers' money, rather than just you knowing it's not a dodgy deal - and being able to justify why you have gone with supplier A when supplier B challenges the decision, possibly in court.

(see also the recruitment process which can feel like a pain in the tail, but again some local authorities also had a reputation for nepotism / discrimination / recruiting based on membership of the right political party or lodge or whatever)

both can be done reasonably well or can be a tick box exercise carried out by people who have no idea about the technical aspect of what they are procuring / recruiting for. i remember having an argument with procurement person at one past local authority about why i didn't think we needed to ask / score on what construction industry training schemes companies were accredited by when we were going out to tender for school buses...
 
Yeh no results on achive, hadn't tried that one<snip>
Supplier Relationship & Contract Specialist thats it if anyone can find anything, I am out of ideas.
Same - out of ideas
can find this from october 2023, but from where i'm sitting, looks like the same thing

glassdoor has this (although no 'attached documents' but does include a name / phone number

my cynical side wonders why they advertised in january and october last year, and again recently now - did they not manage to appoint then, or has someone quit that soon or what? i suppose it's a bit of a niche, and for most people who aren't already working there, it's going to mean moving house, so may not get many people applying. (as an aside, my local council have advertised about 3 times in the last couple of years for something i could do, but the way funding is, it's only been on a short term contract so i didn't go for it, and from what i gather, they didn't get anyone)

i have mixed feelings about procurement and that sort of thing. having worked in the more operational end of local authority, it sometimes feels like the main purpose of procurement people is to stop you getting anything done...

but having said that, local authorities used to have at least a reputation for dodgy deals down the golf club / lodge / whatever (and in some cases with a brown envelope involved), so there's an element of keeping stuff objective and transparent and being able to prove you're not doing a dodgy deal with the ratepayers' money, rather than just you knowing it's not a dodgy deal - and being able to justify why you have gone with supplier A when supplier B challenges the decision, possibly in court.

(see also the recruitment process which can feel like a pain in the tail, but again some local authorities also had a reputation for nepotism / discrimination / recruiting based on membership of the right political party or lodge or whatever)

both can be done reasonably well or can be a tick box exercise carried out by people who have no idea about the technical aspect of what they are procuring / recruiting for. i remember having an argument with procurement person at one past local authority about why i didn't think we needed to ask / score on what construction industry training schemes companies were accredited by when we were going out to tender for school buses...

I wonder the same about those things you mention - struggled to appoint is my first though having been in local Govt until last year. Usually because the salaries are X% lower than working in the same role in the private sector.
 
can find this from october 2023, but from where i'm sitting, looks like the same thing

glassdoor has this (although no 'attached documents' but does include a name / phone number

First one doesn't look quite what I remembered, the second one looks a lot more like it, good find thanks. Still don't actually have the official invite yet, tho they did that on a Thursday before.

When looking I did find there are multiple people in with the same job title at the council already there that I could find on linkedin and I know a lot of them didn't seem to be on it when I worked there before. Weirdly I didn't see this in January or the other postings as I do get emails from them.

One huge bonus (for me at least) they don't mention in the job spec is that they pretty much work 100% from home or maybe 1 day a week max. If you want to work from an office then you can but the uptake was something like 2% when I worked there and some of those had to be on site anyway. There is not enough space to get everyone in anyway and they just dropped another building so thats two main council places closed, one I used to work in is now being turned into accommodation for hospital workers or something.

i have mixed feelings about procurement and that sort of thing. having worked in the more operational end of local authority, it sometimes feels like the main purpose of procurement people is to stop you getting anything done...

I found a lot of people were told to do tasks which really required a lot more knowledge about how things worked than they had. Almost like some kind of training would be useful but it seemed to be an osmosis based knowledge system. Had people with 100k devolved authority but absolutely no knowledge of public procurement, timelines, authorisation routes, etc. It was available on the intranet, if they knew to look there, but also had broken page links and a lot of the information was out of date, they told me they were fixing it for several years. My department had a different initial procedure which was not on the intranet, for auth and spend tracking, which I was running but if you were a new employee you would have no idea. My onboarding process document I found after 7 months in a random folder, with references to 10+ people who were no longer working there.

Someone coming in from private especially would feel like we kept stopping them because they would submit things think well thats done and I have to say no we need to do an IR35 check, yes we do need a standstill period for this, etc for everything. There was a council guidance document, which was hundreds of pages and had absolutely nothing useful for a new joiner. So I had to write a very dumbed down guide just for under 25k which was still 2 pages and full of hyperlinks to resources and contact details for me/other relevant people if what they were doing varied at all from a very basic procurement, not EU, etc. This was sent to everyone in the department, who mostly got directed to the intranet.....

I frequently had to chase people after the initial request because they would not complete things (which just about everyone did repeatedly apart from the emergency accommodation lot who did everything perfectly) or missing a lot of things (same). They would then leave it for ages and try and do things at the last minute, then I get blamed when they are overshooting dates like its my damned project, not that they didn't bother to reply for 3 months after I had raised this as a risk and told line manager etc. Obviously that's one of the worst ones but even when I was in a council where from the form they insisted on using should then allow the entire thing to be worked through. People would miss cost centres, their name, departments, put wrong details in, stick things in the wrong place, complain they can't type over a formula? Mostly it was just things missing entirely and they would ask me where to find it, like you are running a project, have been given cost codes, are supposed to be tracking spend etc, I have not been. I'm also not your service accountant.

But since it was on the tracker with an end date and my name attached it would keep being brought up as behind schedule and look bad on me, when I was not the hold up and can't make people do their work. I get that we want an outcome and we have a budget, so we have already done a business plan/etc and should not have to start asking me what it is they should be asking for when we should be going out to tender. I am not an expert in the requirement, they are, I just make sure everything goes properly through the processes so its all on the contract register, properly evaluated and is MAT etc. Asking me what number of prepaid cards are being used by the 4 teams that use them is not something I track. Maybe try talking to them about it, also if we don't know this where did the budget come from, guessing? I just want to get through the process with as few head desks as possible, if people just provide what they should be able to do its not all that complicated. There is a huge training problem tho, no one is getting any and learning by trial and error is not good for anyone.

Also found sometimes they had gone off and done huge amounts of work on it, decided who they wanted, tried to do a direct award. Got denied cos no you can't just do that without a bloody good reason and they don't have one. Had someone actually get annoyed when I had to insist on a mini comp and then they saved money and got more provision from another provider.
 
Had the slightly surreal experience of going to job centre when I do actually have an offer. She kindly gave me a follow up right at the beginning of Thursday next week (ie not in the middle of the day) by which time I might have a start date and be able to wrap things up, but it's worth driving to Barnet 2 or 3 times to get a few weeks' JSA to help tide me over until a full paycheck. In the meantime I'll just keep pinging one job a day on quick apply and if they do bother to ask if it's taking my 35 hours a week I can always tell them applications for my roles are super complex and they all have written tests so they take loads of time, because I doubt they will know otherwise.

gsv had a good agent discussion who told him his experience is very good but a) to get rid of tables on his CV because some automated systems reject anything with them and b) it would be worth his while to get a tech CV writing pro to go over it. So he's paying a bit less than one day of his day rate for someone the agent recommended as it seems worthwhile - as he's been out of circulation nearly 2 years there may be things he's not caught up on.
 
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I’m applying for a job. It’s basically doing what I do but a grade up. With supervisory responsibilities. I hate applying for jobs.

current workplace, or elsewhere?

if it's current workplace, then (at the possible risk of stating the obvious, but i've seen people bugger it up because of this) - unless you've been clearly told otherwise, treat it as if it's an external application, as they may well score all applicants (internal or external) on the same criteria - more likely in large organisations / public sector. taking an 'i don't need to say anything about this, they already know me and what i do' approach to application and /or interview can be a mistake.
 
What start-date are you thinking of and have you had the formal offer letters yet? Because if it's still going to be a couple of weeks after your appointment, take the money for those weeks.
Also for the National Insurance contributions. People often don't think about that, but gaps in contributions can make a difference when it comes to benefits entitlements, if needed, but more importantly pension entitlement in the longer term.
 
Also for the National Insurance contributions. People often don't think about that, but gaps in contributions can make a difference when it comes to benefits entitlements, if needed, but more importantly pension entitlement in the longer term.
Yeh my SO is SAHM and its been covered for years, seems like when youngest is 12 she no longer gets NI contributions from claiming child benefits so now need to sort out PIP or whatever it is. Tho somewhat confused since it has no mention of work stuff at all. It's a MH thing and the requirements appear to require lying that you have died because you couldn't do the stuff mentioned and nothing about being unable to hold down a role because of MH.

Every person I know thats sick and has these things isn't matching the descriptions they mention as they are so strict that's its appears you have to be unable to function at all to get anything.
I can't believe someone who runs a business from their house is unable to do the tasks they mention for example. Especially since I have seen them do it. Nothing against them they are definitely medically fucked and need the funds but the limitations are ridiculous. Lady in my back pain group got rejected with MS because she could do stuff to not die on her own. Cos otherwise she would have, it's a very bad system.

Still have no job description or even a proper calendar invite. Hoping it turns up Monday when holidaying hiring manager is back. Obviously seem interested enough to ensure I was coming when on holiday but not to provide the job description. Bloody oracle system is a pain in the arse. They left them up before
 
Yeh my SO is SAHM and its been covered for years, seems like when youngest is 12 she no longer gets NI contributions from claiming child benefits so now need to sort out PIP or whatever it is. Tho somewhat confused since it has no mention of work stuff at all. It's a MH thing and the requirements appear to require lying that you have died because you couldn't do the stuff mentioned and nothing about being unable to hold down a role because of MH.

Every person I know thats sick and has these things isn't matching the descriptions they mention as they are so strict that's its appears you have to be unable to function at all to get anything.
I can't believe someone who runs a business from their house is unable to do the tasks they mention for example. Especially since I have seen them do it. Nothing against them they are definitely medically fucked and need the funds but the limitations are ridiculous. Lady in my back pain group got rejected with MS because she could do stuff to not die on her own. Cos otherwise she would have, it's a very bad system.
PIP does not give you NI credits, only UC and ESA do. If you have too much savings or household income to get ESA I think you can get a nil award which gives you NI credits.
 
PIP does not give you NI credits, only UC and ESA do. If you have too much savings or household income to get ESA I think you can get a nil award which gives you NI credits.
Thanks I'm now investigating this as September is our deadline. This is the stuff I didn't know. We did get a thing saying to apply for UC after contributions based jsa ran out. Savings do make us a nil award but I want to make sure SO has the full whack for her benefit as much as ours overall. Rather not pay it directly if possible.
 
Thanks I'm now investigating this as September is our deadline. This is the stuff I didn't know. We did get a thing saying to apply for UC after contributions based jsa ran out. Savings do make us a nil award but I want to make sure SO has the full whack for her benefit as much as ours overall. Rather not pay it directly if possible.
Always, always seek independent advice from an independent welfare rights adviser from something like Citizens Advice or a law centre or Mind etc.

Never just apply to DWP for Benefit X, because if you're not entitled they will just say 'You're not entitled to Benefit X.' they won't say 'You're not entitled to Benefit X, but in your circumstances you should be entitled to Benefit Y, here's the application form for that.'

DWP are only legally obliged to process whatever applications you submit to them. They are under no legal obligation to tell you that you might be entitled to different benefits and suggest you apply for different ones.

It's probably one of the reasons why millions of pounds of benefits go unclaimed every year.

So always seek independent advice.
 
because if you're not entitled they will just say 'You're not entitled to Benefit X.'

and quite frequently they will say that if you are entitled...

especially when it comes to disability benefits, the system is more of a benefits denial system than anything else now. they work on the basis that if they refuse benefits at first claim, by any means necessary, then at least a percentage of people will fuck off and / or die rather than go through the process of challenging their decision.

the system is even worse when it comes to mental health conditions, and conditions that are variable - the benefits system generally doesn't recognise anything less than 100% unfit 100% of the time, employers generally don't want anyone who's anything less than 100% fit 100% of the time.

newme - there's threads in the 'benefits and housing' bit of urban about dealing with ESA / PIP claims.

there's also the benefits and work website which may be worth a look.
 
and quite frequently they will say that if you are entitled...

especially when it comes to disability benefits, the system is more of a benefits denial system than anything else now. they work on the basis that if they refuse benefits at first claim, by any means necessary, then at least a percentage of people will fuck off and / or die rather than go through the process of challenging their decision.

the system is even worse when it comes to mental health conditions, and conditions that are variable - the benefits system generally doesn't recognise anything less than 100% unfit 100% of the time, employers generally don't want anyone who's anything less than 100% fit 100% of the time.

newme - there's threads in the 'benefits and housing' bit of urban about dealing with ESA / PIP claims.

there's also the benefits and work website which may be worth a look.
Cheers will have a look, yeh knew it was 90% immediate fail cos its a weekday or the sun is shining through the window in a strange way. They just seem to have such ridiculous requirements, can you make food and turn up places seems to cover most of it. Of course this is an issue for some but seems an unreasonably high barrier of entry. Also the specific conditions make the process a horrendous pain in the arse. Seems if you can complete the form you probably don't need any help from their point of view.

The fact that someone may have a panic attack at work which is not exactly positive for an employer seems not to come into it. Sure people can make a cup of tea but they need to be able to pay for it too which is more difficult without work. Also other people exist without this being a feature of working life so they get picked first anyway, they act like if you can manage to leave the house wearing clothes and end up somewhere else you intended to be at you must be able to complete a full 40 hours at whatever industry, despite them not hiring and being inaccessible if you can't drive which can also be medically based.
 
LOL, something I flung a CV at just to keep something up to claim JSA has asked me for a call tomorrow. I'm going to keep initial conversations up until I have a start date, I think, on the whole. I did turn down one first full interview today as it was middle of the day and would have involved research to not embarrass myself and I couldn't be arsed. I still have a F2F on Friday and honestly I might do it just as something to do and it's quite interesting sitting interviews without feeling pressure. Feel kind of mean and have no reason to suspect a fall through but I suppose keep your options open.

Looks like start may be as late as July first, but we're trying to see if HR could accelerate a bit as I think both manager and I are keen to start, but I imagine week after next will be soonest. I expect first of month is just default start if person doesn't have to serve notice but maybe they can move it on, but may depend on how far ahead they have to set up payroll and how quickly they can do that.
 
Interview tomorrow, bricking is since finances seem to be a huge issue and not sure they should have picked me to interview to begin with
 
Interview went surprisingly well, only got the job description the day before, despite all the help people were finding job specs they were different again to those. Way more into detail on the details of that area, which I have done before so I had some useful specifics to add. I generated from chatgpt/copilot and online sources a huge bank of questions and nothing like any of them came up lol despite it being a standard.

Some day I am going to remember to record the bloody things to transcription to find out what I was asked and work on answering them better.
 
Just submitted a job application for the first time in ages, been reminded how much I really fucking hate job applications. Why would someone think that, for instance "Excellent and detailed working knowledge of Microsoft Office applications, especially advanced functionality in Excel.", "Knowledge and understanding of a range of data manipulation and analytical techniques.", "Knowledge of the functioning of complex corporate databases and how to extract and analyse statistical data to inform strategy and practice." "Experience of analysing and interpreting statistical information from a variety of sources.", "Experience of constructing and manipulating large databases and spreadsheets to carry out analysis and to provide management information to support multiple users in critical functions.", "Experience of contributing to the design of bespoke reporting solutions to inform decision-making.", and "Advanced user of Microsoft Excel with experience of filtering, pivot tables, lookup functions, charts, complex formula and conditional formatting to analyse data, generate reports and present information." needed to be seven different bulletpoints? I appreciate they're not all exactly the same, but I think just "can you get complex information out of databases and spreadsheets and put them in reports, y/n?" would cover almost all of the relevant points there.
 
Good luck hitmouse

I've got all the digital 'paperwork' through and I think I've filled in everything/sent information that I need to now for new job. I'm hoping that I will know start date by end of this week/beginning of next. Went to the Job Centre last week and she didn't even ask what I'd been doing, just booked me in for Thursday 20th and said to let them know if I was starting my job before then, which was nice of her.

Had 2 things I just flung my CV at for the Job Centre in the previous week give me a screening call, but told one straight away I had an offer and messaged another to say so once I got the contract.

In a way, my ideal now might be to start 24th, as there's some things I'd like to do next week, but it would still get me starting in June, which would look better on CV and LinkedIn (as my work gap would look like one month, not 2), but if they can do sooner I'll go for it as getting the money in would be good.
 
Just submitted a job application for the first time in ages, been reminded how much I really fucking hate job applications. Why would someone think that, for instance "Excellent and detailed working knowledge of Microsoft Office applications, especially advanced functionality in Excel.", "Knowledge and understanding of a range of data manipulation and analytical techniques.", "Knowledge of the functioning of complex corporate databases and how to extract and analyse statistical data to inform strategy and practice." "Experience of analysing and interpreting statistical information from a variety of sources.", "Experience of constructing and manipulating large databases and spreadsheets to carry out analysis and to provide management information to support multiple users in critical functions.", "Experience of contributing to the design of bespoke reporting solutions to inform decision-making.", and "Advanced user of Microsoft Excel with experience of filtering, pivot tables, lookup functions, charts, complex formula and conditional formatting to analyse data, generate reports and present information." needed to be seven different bulletpoints? I appreciate they're not all exactly the same, but I think just "can you get complex information out of databases and spreadsheets and put them in reports, y/n?" would cover almost all of the relevant points there.
What databases would have been useful. From all that I'm assuming I'm getting a csv dump or link to the data for import to excel. However half the extra points don't specify. Am I supposed to be using sql? Is power BI required for the reports? They have said an awful lot without saying a great deal. If candidate expected sql and power bi / some other combination and the company laptop has Excel with macros disabled it's a completely different thing.

Does sound a lot like someone not knowing what these things meant copy and pasted a bunch of data analysis things together with a section on standard excel skills or ran it through chatgpt.
 
What databases would have been useful. From all that I'm assuming I'm getting a csv dump or link to the data for import to excel. However half the extra points don't specify. Am I supposed to be using sql? Is power BI required for the reports? They have said an awful lot without saying a great deal. If candidate expected sql and power bi / some other combination and the company laptop has Excel with macros disabled it's a completely different thing.

Does sound a lot like someone not knowing what these things meant copy and pasted a bunch of data analysis things together with a section on standard excel skills or ran it through chatgpt.
I mean, I think not specifying what databases is fair enough in some ways, cos everywhere has their own specialised data management systems, often including individual departments within the same employer, so not specifying the database means that people can mention their experience working with a wider range of systems, I don't super object to that one. The actual answer to the question about Power BI is that they're hoping to do some huge tech overhaul upgrade thing after which Power BI will be standard, but they've been promising that it'll all be completed some time soon for a few years now, so atm no-one actually needs to use it on a day-to-day basis but we're all theoretically supposed to be using it as soon as everything's sorted.
I think the bit that annoys me the most, which you can kind of see here, is that they divide their job specifications into "skills", "knowledge" and "experience", which sounds like a reasonable classification, but in practice means that they tend to end up writing - and so presumably expecting applicants to cover - the same thing three times phrased slightly differently. Not just with this one, I'm sure I've seen more customer-facing roles where it goes like: "Skills: Excellent customer service skills, Knowledge: Knowledge of why excellent customer service is important, Experience: Experience of providing excellent customer service" or something similarly brain-rotting.
 
The reason why attributes are shown as "skills, knowledge and experience" is that those three components equal a competency. Many jobs (and therefore recruitment) is competency based nowadays.
 
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